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aquamariner


Member Since: Mon Aug 02, 2010
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Good Father,Brother,Friend,Husband and Teammate


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The Black Guardian

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 23,592



    Quote:
    Good Father,Brother,Friend,Husband and Teammate

As long as no one is screwing with his mind...

IMO, he's great in all of those categories, but especially father, husband, and teammate.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,821




    Quote:
    Good Father,Brother,Friend,Husband and Teammate


Father? No. He didn't give a crap when Thomas and William were erased. Vin died. Virginia killed herself.

Brother? No. Look at Victor.

Husband? No. His 2nd wife killed herself after their kid died. His first wife went crazy and gave his "brother" Simon an evil handjob when she went crazy after their kids were erased. (or was it a blowjob...shameful..Agatha was right there)

Teammate? No. He tried to take over the world's computers that one time.



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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 1,707



    Quote:
    Good Father,Brother,Friend,Husband and Teammate





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The Black Guardian

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 23,592



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Good Father,Brother,Friend,Husband and Teammate



    Quote:
    Father? No. He didn't give a crap when Thomas and William were erased. Vin died. Virginia killed herself.

He was not Vision when Thomas and William were erased. He was a lobotomy victim.

None of the rest has anything whatsoever to do with being a father.


    Quote:
    Brother? No. Look at Victor.

He was great to Victor... until Victor killed his son.


    Quote:
    Husband? No. His 2nd wife killed herself after their kid died. His first wife went crazy and gave his "brother" Simon an evil handjob when she went crazy after their kids were erased. (or was it a blowjob...shameful..Agatha was right there)

That has nothing to do with his being a husband. That's Virginia's failure as a mother and a person. And again, Wanda's failures are completely her own.


    Quote:
    Teammate? No. He tried to take over the world's computers that one time.

Thanks to Ultron.


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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,874




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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,961



    Quote:
    Good Father,Brother,Friend,Husband and Teammate


The Vision of today is not the Vision I grew up with and has not been for quite some time. Decades, in fact. The Vision I grew up with was almost certainly the greatest creation of Stan Lee's successor, Roy Thomas. That Vision had a personality pretty similar to the Silver Surfer's. He was the central figure of the Avengers. Being a synthezoid, he was nobody's parent, sibling, or offspring, nor could he be. His love affair with the Scarlet Witch was one of the greatest comic book love stories of all time. He was aloof and didn't really have much in the way of friends, but he was sincerely an Avenger, and that meant he had every other Avenger's back, whatever the risk. His ongoing journey to greater self-awareness was one of the binding threads of the Avengers saga.

And then the Decades of Weird descended upon him and have yet to release him.






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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,765


Well said. I used to love this guy. He almost came back in Busiek/Perez's revival - but still seemed somewhat watered down. He really only works as the rock in the center of the Avengers. When he's portrayed as just another member, he seems unremarkable. There should be two permanent residents of Avengers Mansion - Jarvis and the Vision.

He also used to be a huge heavy hitter, power-wise. These days he's a bit of a clay soldier. He and the Thing have that in common. When they aren't portrayed as formidable, they lose a lot of their appeal.




And a lean, silent figure slowly fades into the gathering darkness, aware at last that in this world, with great power there must also come -- great responsibility!
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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,765



    Quote:
    Teammate? No. He tried to take over the world's computers that one time.

Thanks to Ultron.

Minor nit - it was ISAAC who manipulated Vision in that story. I don't think Ultron has controlled the Vision since Vizh's first appearance.




And a lean, silent figure slowly fades into the gathering darkness, aware at last that in this world, with great power there must also come -- great responsibility!
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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,821




    Quote:

      Quote:
      Good Father,Brother,Friend,Husband and Teammate



    Quote:
    The Vision of today is not the Vision I grew up with and has not been for quite some time. Decades, in fact. The Vision I grew up with was almost certainly the greatest creation of Stan Lee's successor, Roy Thomas. That Vision had a personality pretty similar to the Silver Surfer's. He was the central figure of the Avengers. Being a synthezoid, he was nobody's parent, sibling, or offspring, nor could he be. His love affair with the Scarlet Witch was one of the greatest comic book love stories of all time. He was aloof and didn't really have much in the way of friends, but he was sincerely an Avenger, and that meant he had every other Avenger's back, whatever the risk. His ongoing journey to greater self-awareness was one of the binding threads of the Avengers saga.



    Quote:
    And then the Decades of Weird descended upon him and have yet to release him.


Well like Mystery Man said...Byrne did wreck him.

I guess I never got the character so I didn't mind the character assassination...I acknowledge that was what it was though. My first comic with Vision in it was the very issue where Mockingbird shows Wanda his deconstructed body in WCA. So to me he was always an it not a body with organs and tissues. And I agreed 100% with Simon's stance an issue or few later where he says he wasn't going to let them use his brain patterns to recreate Vision. I wouldn't want anyone using either my biological or mental what have yous to create a sentient being that isn't my kid.




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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 23,592



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Teammate? No. He tried to take over the world's computers that one time.

    Thanks to Ultron.



    Quote:
    Minor nit - it was ISAAC who manipulated Vision in that story. I don't think Ultron has controlled the Vision since Vizh's first appearance.

Yes, but it was all the fault of the control crystal. Thanks to Ultron.


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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,961



    Quote:
    Well said. I used to love this guy. He almost came back in Busiek/Perez's revival - but still seemed somewhat watered down. He really only works as the rock in the center of the Avengers. When he's portrayed as just another member, he seems unremarkable. There should be two permanent residents of Avengers Mansion - Jarvis and the Vision.


I totally agree.


    Quote:
    He also used to be a huge heavy hitter, power-wise.


In the classic Avengers/Defenders clash, he was pit against the Silver Surfer! Now I readily admit, he's not as powerful as the Silver Surfer. But because he can go intangible, he can survive assaults that would shatter mountains.

I think he was actually pit against the Surfer because they had much in common and there was irony in them fighting instead of getting to know one another.


    Quote:
    These days he's a bit of a clay soldier.


Which is weird because he has added new powers he didn't have before.

But of course, the most important factor in any comic book battle is the current level of support the character is getting from the editorial staff.


    Quote:
    He and the Thing have that in common. When they aren't portrayed as formidable, they lose a lot of their appeal.


Definitely. I remember an early story when the Avengers were trying to capture the Hulk. Greenskin burrows into the earth like a super-rabbit and is quickly gone, the hole closed up behind him. Thunderbolt Ross roars something about none of the new Avengers being powerful enough to follow. (I think the membership was the Vision, Scarlet Witch, Clint/Goliath, Quicksilver, and the Black Panther.) The Vision says something like, "Perhaps not in terms of raw power, but there are other ways." And then he simply floats through the earth like a ghost and is gone.






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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,874



    Quote:

    In the classic Avengers/Defenders clash, he was pit against the Silver Surfer! Now I readily admit, he's not as powerful as the Silver Surfer. But because he can go intangible, he can survive assaults that would shatter mountains.

    I think he was actually pit against the Surfer because they had much in common and there was irony in them fighting instead of getting to know one another.


Roy Thomas also had the idea of the Doomsmen : cosmically powered living androids created by Doctor Doom.

Maybe, he had planned one of them to become the nemesis of the Vision ?
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/androi.htm
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/doomsmansurf.htm
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/astonishing_tales_13.shtml


I also suspect that the corpse of Adam-II was used by Ultron to create Vision but Roy Thomas never had the time to explain it.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/adamiiaws.htm



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,821




    Quote:

      Quote:

      In the classic Avengers/Defenders clash, he was pit against the Silver Surfer! Now I readily admit, he's not as powerful as the Silver Surfer. But because he can go intangible, he can survive assaults that would shatter mountains.



      Quote:
      I think he was actually pit against the Surfer because they had much in common and there was irony in them fighting instead of getting to know one another.



    Quote:
    Roy Thomas also had the idea of the Doomsmen : cosmically powered living androids created by Doctor Doom.








I would have been happier with that explanation than the one that Vision is Jim Hammond.

They had no right to turn Jim into the Vision. Jim and the Vision were nothing alike.



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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,874



    Quote:

    I would have been happier with that explanation than the one that Vision is Jim Hammond.

    They had no right to turn Jim into the Vision. Jim and the Vision were nothing alike.


Indeed and it happened, on top of that, right in the middle of one of the most convoluted Avengers stories of the Bronze Age.
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/avengers_129135_giantsize_aven.shtml
You'll notice that most of the explanations in this story are unconvincing.
Why would Ultron need the Thinker & Norton to create and update an android if it is able to update itself ?
Why would an AI have a "normal lifespan" ?
Why would it need an android son ?
Why would it prefer to recycle the Human Torch android instead of helping QUASIMODO (a fellow AI) ?
Why would it need the Vision to have a scarlet face to remind Ultron of the Human Torch (since when Ultron has cared about humour & irony and why would an AI in a robotic body need a reminder) ?
Etc.




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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,953



    Quote:
    Good Father,Brother,Friend,Husband and Teammate


Son?
No. He always helped to defeat his dad, and he never writes to Ultron on his birthday or for Christmas (his younger sister Jocasta is just as bad). He is a good grandson to Hank and Janet, though.

Father?
My verdict is out as he didn't really play that role enough for me to tell when he and Wanda had kids and they weren't retconned into being figments of Wanda's imagination. And I didn't read the series about his second family.

Brother?
As far as I recall he got on okay with his sister Jocasta, and all in all he and Wonder Man got on as well as could be expected under the (sometimes crazy) circumstances. His relationship to Eric Williams is not so great, but that is entirely Eric's fault.

Friend?
He is one of those characters who seems more teammate than friend. Even his relationship to Jarvis seems to be largely defined by his Avengerhood.

Husband?
He was a good husband to Wanda. It wasn't his fault that that marriage broke down. I refused to buy the series about his second family, so I can't comment on that.

Lover?
That depends on what you see as "good". The relationship that Wanda used to have with him may have been her best relationship so far, but as far as emotional intensity goes the word that springs to mind is "tepid".

Teammate?
Yes.







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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,821




    Quote:

      Quote:

      I would have been happier with that explanation than the one that Vision is Jim Hammond.



      Quote:
      They had no right to turn Jim into the Vision. Jim and the Vision were nothing alike.



    Quote:
    Indeed and it happened, on top of that, right in the middle of one of the most convoluted Avengers stories of the Bronze Age.
    http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/avengers_129135_giantsize_aven.shtml
    You'll notice that most of the explanations in this story are unconvincing.
    Why would Ultron need the Thinker & Norton to create and update an android if it is able to update itself ?
    Why would an AI have a "normal lifespan" ?
    Why would it need an android son ?
    Why would it prefer to recycle the Human Torch android instead of helping QUASIMODO (a fellow AI) ?
    Why would it need the Vision to have a scarlet face to remind Ultron of the Human Torch (since when Ultron has cared about humour & irony and why would an AI in a robotic body need a reminder) ?
    Etc.


To me that whole story kicked off these convoluted comic plot explanation dumps that they still do today. Comics were simpler before that.



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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,874



    Quote:
    To me that whole story kicked off these convoluted comic plot explanation dumps that they still do today. Comics were simpler before that.


Yes, I have the feeling that the whole story was some kind of broom wagon for the backgrounds of secondary characters, for lack of a better metaphor.

In a rush, were explained the stories of Vision, Mantis, Moondragon, Libra, Swordsman and Immortus (who was revealed as yet another avatar of Rama-Tut/Kang, ... what a mistake, before that, Kang was a relatively simple character) ...

Still, there is a priceless monologue :

Ultron to Horton : "Now get to work, my decadent Gepetto (Geppetto) .. Get to work and give me a Pinocchio !" \:\-D




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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,821




    Quote:

      Quote:
      To me that whole story kicked off these convoluted comic plot explanation dumps that they still do today. Comics were simpler before that.



    Quote:
    Yes, I have the feeling that the whole story was some kind of broom wagon for the backgrounds of secondary characters, for lack of a better metaphor.



    Quote:
    In a rush, were explained the stories of Vision, Mantis, Moondragon, Libra, Swordsman and Immortus (who was revealed as yet another avatar of Rama-Tut/Kang, ... what a mistake, before that, Kang was a relatively simple character) ...


Plus we were getting the Skrull/Kree/Cotati stuff.


    Quote:
    Ultron to Horton : "Now get to work, my decadent Gepetto (Geppetto) .. Get to work and give me a Pinocchio !" \:\-D


I admit I always liked that line as well.



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