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Author
Vidar


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,429


It’s a good film, entertaining and well made. The heart of Stan and jack (and Romona jr) beats strong throughout and the performances are strong. I can see why many reviews didn’t separate the film from its cultural significance, as the narrative is perhaps salient for many. It’s visually resplendent with nods to Thor (Kirby) in design, and the score works almost poetically in synergy with the physicality of the scenes. However, much of motion work was under par, reminding me of Blade where they were pioneering digital character motion before Spidey. There are nods to Bond. Panther’s mythos was explained and celebrated in such depth that it made Thor’s MCU shortcomings in this respect all the more apparent.

I wasn’t previously aware of the sci-fi concept called Afro-futurism, but Wakanda does rather stretch suspension of disbelief, with much of the technology more extraterrestrial in its level of accomplishment. As such, the movie does feel very isolated from the rest of the MCU especially at this late stage between Civil War and Infinity. But these are minor quibbles. It played to a packed house in a provincial theatre which bodes well for the movie’s success, but there was a noticeably higher than average house full of idiots, with people laughing at Klaw’s casual murdering. One obese family in front brought their own five course meal with them, and only stopped eating when their 6 year old got very upset. An odd crowd didn’t spoil the movie entirely.
Vidar




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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,024




    Quote:
    It’s a good film, entertaining and well made. The heart of Stan and jack (and Romona jr) beats strong throughout and the performances are strong. I can see why many reviews didn’t separate the film from its cultural significance, as the narrative is perhaps salient for many. It’s visually resplendent with nods to Thor (Kirby) in design, and the score works almost poetically in synergy with the physicality of the scenes. However, much of motion work was under par, reminding me of Blade where they were pioneering digital character motion before Spidey. There are nods to Bond. Panther’s mythos was explained and celebrated in such depth that it made Thor’s MCU shortcomings in this respect all the more apparent.



    Quote:
    I wasn’t previously aware of the sci-fi concept called Afro-futurism, but Wakanda does rather stretch suspension of disbelief, with much of the technology more extraterrestrial in its level of accomplishment. As such, the movie does feel very isolated from the rest of the MCU especially at this late stage between Civil War and Infinity. But these are minor quibbles. It played to a packed house in a provincial theatre which bodes well for the movie’s success, but there was a noticeably higher than average house full of idiots, with people laughing at Klaw’s casual murdering. One obese family in front brought their own five course meal with them, and only stopped eating when their 6 year old got very upset. An odd crowd didn’t spoil the movie entirely.
    Vidar


I've always liked Wakanda. An African nation that has the smartest scientists in the world but the nation is also arrogant, xenophobic and while not actually racist they are elitists that look down on anyone who isn't Wakandan. Instead of painting them as a good country or a bad country they're portrayed as a deeply flawed country with some of the brightest minds on earth.

Wakanda is one of Lee and Kirby's more interesting ideas IMO. It's a country that can compete economically with the USA and European countries and has the money and technology to encourage other countries to negotiate with them. Sadly in the real world I think most of Africa is still paying for mistakes the European countries made when partitioning Africa and plundering its resources.





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Vidar


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,429



    Quote:


      Quote:
      It’s a good film, entertaining and well made. The heart of Stan and jack (and Romona jr) beats strong throughout and the performances are strong. I can see why many reviews didn’t separate the film from its cultural significance, as the narrative is perhaps salient for many. It’s visually resplendent with nods to Thor (Kirby) in design, and the score works almost poetically in synergy with the physicality of the scenes. However, much of motion work was under par, reminding me of Blade where they were pioneering digital character motion before Spidey. There are nods to Bond. Panther’s mythos was explained and celebrated in such depth that it made Thor’s MCU shortcomings in this respect all the more apparent.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        I wasn’t previously aware of the sci-fi concept called Afro-futurism, but Wakanda does rather stretch suspension of disbelief, with much of the technology more extraterrestrial in its level of accomplishment. As such, the movie does feel very isolated from the rest of the MCU especially at this late stage between Civil War and Infinity. But these are minor quibbles. It played to a packed house in a provincial theatre which bodes well for the movie’s success, but there was a noticeably higher than average house full of idiots, with people laughing at Klaw’s casual murdering. One obese family in front brought their own five course meal with them, and only stopped eating when their 6 year old got very upset. An odd crowd didn’t spoil the movie entirely.
        Vidar



    Quote:
    I've always liked Wakanda. An African nation that has the smartest scientists in the world but the nation is also arrogant, xenophobic and while not actually racist they are elitists that look down on anyone who isn't Wakandan. Instead of painting them as a good country or a bad country they're portrayed as a deeply flawed country with some of the brightest minds on earth.


Agreed. Unfortunately, this aspect didn't work for me in the film. As good as the actor's performance was, it was all about Shuri. Everything else appeared deserted and automated. I wondered if there was something Huxilian about this; that it was an egalitarian society with all work (apart from farming and agriculture) automated. Unfortunately, there a constant dissonance throughout much of the movie that doesn't stand up to too much scrutiny. But hey, it's superhero flick.


    Quote:
    Wakanda is one of Lee and Kirby's more interesting ideas IMO. It's a country that can compete economically with the USA and European countries and has the money and technology to encourage other countries to negotiate with them. Sadly in the real world I think most of Africa is still paying for mistakes the European countries made when partitioning Africa and plundering its resources.


It was a vision of faith and hope, incredibly progressive and wonderfully idealistic. Not sure I agree with your second, vastly simplistic summation of the history of an entire continent. I'm conscious of not wanting to go off topic, but Killmonger's approach was childishly misguided and out of character. Instead of wanting to declare (selective) war on the world, you hoped he might want to go about improving the lot for most of the populace of the neighbouring countries first! There was more than enough ideological gulf between him and T'chala for this , the clear course, to exist. But I get that there's a message that has to be delivered and that that's done best in the typically binary fashion of ideological opposites. Ditto for attack on the 'British Museum's' artefact. Whilst undeniably true, with the middle East and African ransacking, desecration and removal of evidence of civilisations I'd of hope for, at the very least a comment like "but thanks for taking good care of it, you people are good at that". My forbears where trammelled by Roman invaders, but I do love holidaying in Italy and we still look after their stuff \:\)
Vidar
PS This guy made me laugh but does point out some of the inconsistencies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc0pK98d65Q




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nigma


Member Since: Sun Nov 26, 2017
Posts: 17



    Quote:
    I've always liked Wakanda. An African nation that has the smartest scientists in the world but the nation is also arrogant, xenophobic and while not actually racist they are elitists that look down on anyone who isn't Wakandan. Instead of painting them as a good country or a bad country they're portrayed as a deeply flawed country with some of the brightest minds on earth.


Yep, I like Wakanda too. But, I'm not too sure I like the evolution to arrogance and elitism. I like the nobility aspect that was Wakanda, and T'Challa's, original depiction. T'Challa not wanting to grab a woman as a hostage because it wouldn't be honorable (Avengers #177), that's the T'Challa I like.


    Quote:
    Wakanda is one of Lee and Kirby's more interesting ideas IMO. It's a country that can compete economically with the USA and European countries and has the money and technology to encourage other countries to negotiate with them. Sadly in the real world I think most of Africa is still paying for mistakes the European countries made when partitioning Africa and plundering its resources.


While British and French empires redrawing the African map was devastating, let's not over-dramatize the effect. European Imperialism has been over for some 50-odd years. That's plenty of time to bounce back, and East Asia has done so. Quite nicely, in fact. If Africa hasn't, it says more about African culture, than European. No one forced Robert Mugabe to destroy his country. Or General Amin, or the butchers in Rwanda. Africans have to take responsibility for their own actions. War, slavery, abuse of power...all these things existed in Africa before the first European set foot on the continent (witness Coptic Egypt). Wakanda is a nice fantasy. But, it's just a fantasy. It doesn't underline European Imperialism in any way.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,024






    Quote:
    Yep, I like Wakanda too. But, I'm not too sure I like the evolution to arrogance and elitism. I like the nobility aspect that was Wakanda, and T'Challa's, original depiction. T'Challa not wanting to grab a woman as a hostage because it wouldn't be honorable (Avengers #177), that's the T'Challa I like.


I like their elitism. They've built a country they can be proud of. Why do black characters always have to either be a) thugs or b) saints?

Wakandans (not counting T'Challa) are often jerks. But they're not evil. Wakandans are almost like black Repulicans or fans of Ayn Rand's philosophy. They're proud of what they've built and don't want to share with the world. It's a complex perspective to give black characters when black characters are usually either portrayed as a negative thug stereotype or portrayed as so saintly they lack any nuance.




    Quote:
    While British and French empires redrawing the African map was devastating, let's not over-dramatize the effect. European Imperialism has been over for some 50-odd years. That's plenty of time to bounce back, and East Asia has done so. Quite nicely, in fact. If Africa hasn't, it says more about African culture, than European. No one forced Robert Mugabe to destroy his country. Or General Amin, or the butchers in Rwanda. Africans have to take responsibility for their own actions. War, slavery, abuse of power...all these things existed in Africa before the first European set foot on the continent (witness Coptic Egypt). Wakanda is a nice fantasy. But, it's just a fantasy. It doesn't underline European Imperialism in any way.


I certainly wouldn't want to sympathize with the warlords who have continued to hold Africa back but I think they capitalized on the mess the Europeans made of the continent.

When the French and British (and Belgian, Spanish, Italian, German and Portuguese) carved up Africa like a Christmas ham the borders they imposed to their new domains were made according to their own deals with each other with zero regard for the ethnic tribes actually living in those lands. Most fighting between African countries today is a result of those old borders the Europeans drew up that routinely split up the regions where these tribes were living.

Wakanda is indeed a fantasy. It's an African country with a degree of agency with enough economic power to affect world affairs. It's a what if scenario where it is the one African country not affected by the European colonizers. The Wakandans never went through being sold into slavery or having their lands divided among other European countries.





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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,024




    Quote:
    Not sure I agree with your second, vastly simplistic summation of the history of an entire continent.


I'm certainly open to hearing the opposing viewpoint.

Why I feel discussing it IS on topic goes to the nature of Wakanda itself. It's a hypothetical African country that was not carved up by the European powers and thus was capable of becoming an economic powerhouse that can influence world affairs. It's of Africa but is nothing like the African countries in the real world because it did not go through the shared experience all the real African countries went through...the partitioning of Africa due to the Berlin Conference of 1884. The European empires carved their own colonies and set arbitrary borders based on their own interests and agreements with each other neglecting facts like where the tribes in Africa actually lived and whether those new borders bisected these communities.





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Vidar


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,429



    Quote:


      Quote:
      Not sure I agree with your second, vastly simplistic summation of the history of an entire continent.



    Quote:
    I'm certainly open to hearing the opposing viewpoint.


I’m sure you are, but I shall have to decline your kind invitation. Having been dragged into political and ideological debate over at the Thor board for daring to espouse on the neo Marxist feminist agenda, among others, at Marvel my posts were deleted. I respect the house rules here and the right of opposing views but don’t want to be dragged way off topic again. Suffice to say that when I look at Africa, a continent of some 50 countries I see almost consistent corruption, tyranny and totaltrianism, very little of which can conveniently be attributed to historical events.
Vidar




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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 24,657



    Quote:


      Quote:
      Yep, I like Wakanda too. But, I'm not too sure I like the evolution to arrogance and elitism. I like the nobility aspect that was Wakanda, and T'Challa's, original depiction. T'Challa not wanting to grab a woman as a hostage because it wouldn't be honorable (Avengers #177), that's the T'Challa I like.


This wasn't really evolution to it. Wakanda has always been this way.


    Quote:
    I like their elitism. They've built a country they can be proud of. Why do black characters always have to either be a) thugs or b) saints?



    Quote:
    Wakandans (not counting T'Challa) are often jerks. But they're not evil. Wakandans are almost like black Repulicans or fans of Ayn Rand's philosophy. They're proud of what they've built and don't want to share with the world. It's a complex perspective to give black characters when black characters are usually either portrayed as a negative thug stereotype or portrayed as so saintly they lack any nuance.

Eh... being Randian is a generally a sign of evilness, imo. As is isolationism. And no, what Wakanda has done is purely for selfish reasons. Thankfully, T'Challa is seeing this by the end of the movie.

But I do agree that it's nice to have some shades of grey.


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 24,657


Loved almost everything about the movie. It almost didn't even feel like a superhero movie to me, and I mean this is a very good way. It felt otherworldly, as it should. Even the scenes in the mundane parts of the world felt more like Blade Runner when the Wakandans were around. The women were amazing. I could watch the Dora Milaje all day and not get tired or it. Shuri was awesome. And I liked the overall story.

I think I enjoyed this more than any other Marvel movie to date.

My complaints:

T'Challa's presence wasn't big enough in the movie. There was way too much going on to appreciate him as a character. I enjoyed Michael B Jordan's performance much more, and even M'Baku outshined T'Challa.

Klaw was done pretty poorly, imo. I guess maybe this is what happens when you take the "Fantastic Four" out of him. Not a being of sound anymore, just a lamer with a fancy weapon. Waste of Andy Serkis, imo. Imagining classic Klaw in a Gollum kind of way then getting this will cause disappointment.

All of the villains die. BAH!


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,024




    Quote:

    Eh... being Randian is a generally a sign of evilness, imo. As is isolationism.


I can agree with the first part but not the second. Being an isolationist IMO isn't evil. Being a war monger is evil. Isolationism is apathy at the very worst but not really malice.







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The Black Guardian

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 24,657


Well... it allows evil to flourish. Basically, it's a very selfish idea.


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nigma


Member Since: Sun Nov 26, 2017
Posts: 17



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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,370



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,024





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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,024




    Quote:
    Loved almost everything about the movie. It almost didn't even feel like a superhero movie to me, and I mean this is a very good way. It felt otherworldly, as it should. Even the scenes in the mundane parts of the world felt more like Blade Runner when the Wakandans were around. The women were amazing. I could watch the Dora Milaje all day and not get tired or it. Shuri was awesome. And I liked the overall story.



    Quote:
    I think I enjoyed this more than any other Marvel movie to date.



    Quote:
    My complaints:



    Quote:
    T'Challa's presence wasn't big enough in the movie. There was way too much going on to appreciate him as a character. I enjoyed Michael B Jordan's performance much more, and even M'Baku outshined T'Challa.



    Quote:
    Klaw was done pretty poorly, imo. I guess maybe this is what happens when you take the "Fantastic Four" out of him. Not a being of sound anymore, just a lamer with a fancy weapon. Waste of Andy Serkis, imo. Imagining classic Klaw in a Gollum kind of way then getting this will cause disappointment.


I was fine with Klaw's lame ending because he was lame. I was invested in the Killmonger stuff and not Klaw. Klaw doesn't offer a viewpoint he's just a creep.

I liked almost everything about Killmonger. I laughed when he called Ramonda "auntie". I liked the decision to make him and T'Challa cousins (I wouldn't have liked it if they were brothers...but making him a cousin with a claim to the throne worked for me).

Oh and I loved M'Baku's character. That character could have been so offensive yet for the most part he worked really well.

Nakia was the real surprise though. I was expecting her to be villainous. I never expected she would be the main female character of the movie and be heroic.

(little miffed W'Kabi was a traitor but that's a minor complaint)





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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,370



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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,370



    Quote:
    I was fine with Klaw's lame ending because he was lame. I was invested in the Killmonger stuff and not Klaw. Klaw doesn't offer a viewpoint he's just a creep.


I think that Killmonger being the main villain and M'Baku being a noble antagonist were excellent ideas.

Still, I would have prefered if Killmonger or T'Challa had pushed Klaue in one of Shuri's experimental sonic stabilizers during a fight.

The character would still have been apparently dead but could have come back in his unkillable energy form and made cameos elsewhere.

In the comics, Klaw is supposed to be an elemental powerhouse with some scientific knowledge and a thug mentality. In the context of comics, that makes him a relatively simple villain. I am fine with him being only the 2ndary antagonist but disappointed that we might never see him as we know him in the comics.

I think that, like Scarecrow in the DK Trilogy, he could have become a recurring villain but it is unlikely, now.

Except if they find a convoluted way to bring Klaw back from the dead in the MCU and since Killmonger is also dead, I speculate that Moses Magnum might be the main antagonist in Black Panther 2 or 3.

Moses Magnum is an elemental powerhouse with some scientific knowledge and a thug mentality. His superhuman powers could easily be explained by exposure to raw Vibranium.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,714




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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,024




    Quote:

      Quote:
      I was fine with Klaw's lame ending because he was lame. I was invested in the Killmonger stuff and not Klaw. Klaw doesn't offer a viewpoint he's just a creep.



    Quote:
    I think that Killmonger being the main villain and M'Baku being a noble antagonist were excellent ideas.



    Quote:
    Still, I would have prefered if Killmonger or T'Challa had pushed Klaue in one of Shuri's experimental sonic stabilizers during a fight.



    Quote:
    The character would still have been apparently dead but could have come back in his unkillable energy form and made cameos elsewhere.



    Quote:
    In the comics, Klaw is supposed to be an elemental powerhouse with some scientific knowledge and a thug mentality. In the context of comics, that makes him a relatively simple villain. I am fine with him being only the 2ndary antagonist but disappointed that we might never see him as we know him in the comics.



    Quote:
    I think that, like Scarecrow in the DK Trilogy, he could have become a recurring villain but it is unlikely, now.



    Quote:
    Except if they find a convoluted way to bring Klaw back from the dead in the MCU and since Killmonger is also dead, I speculate that Moses Magnum might be the main antagonist in Black Panther 2 or 3.



    Quote:
    Moses Magnum is an elemental powerhouse with some scientific knowledge and a thug mentality. His superhuman powers could easily be explained by exposure to raw Vibranium.


I'm hoping we get Achebe as the next villain.





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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,370



    Quote:
    I'm hoping we get Achebe as the next villain.


I may be wrong but I don't think that he appeared in a book outside of Christopher Priest's 1990s run. Achebe is a very interesting villain but he is also a very obscure character.

So, I wouldn't count on him appearing as the main villain. Still, he might make a cameo (like Victor Zsasz in Batman Begins) or even be one of the 2ndary antagonists.

Since the usual "big 3" villains of T'Challa (Killmonger, Klaw, M'Baku) already appeared in Black Panther 1, I think that Moses Magnum is the most likely candidate to be the next nemesis :
- He was the ruler of Canaan, an area on the border of Wakanda (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Canaan ).
- In the comics, Moses Magnum was the world's foremost arms dealer. So, in the MCU, he might have been one of Klaue's acquaintances, or even one of his associates.
- He is not one of the most famous villains around but, in the Marvel Universe, he encountered many of the "big guns" : Spider-Man, Punisher, Luke Cage, X-Men, Black Panther and the Avengers. So many longtime comics fans know who he is.
- The Magnum Force could easily be connected to Vibranium.

(http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/magnummoses.htm )



[SPOILER about the movie]

Before he was freed by Killmonger, Klaue was interrogated by Everett Scott & the Wakandans about the provenance of his prosthetic sonic disruptor.

Killmonger cannot be the one who provided the weapon since he was expecting Klaue (dead or alive) to help him enter the country. Apparently, Killmonger knew that Klaue still had a way to infiltrate Wakanda but Klaue didn't want to go back there himself again. It would suggest that Klaue knows somebody else that can do it but doesn't want to give his name away to Killmonger.

It is very unlikely that Shuri or W'Kabi would have provided such a weapon to Klaue.

Klaue didn't use any sonic disruptor before Ultron severed his arm in Age of Ultron. So, it wasn't N'Jobu who gave him the weapon before his death.

So, apparently, Klaue might know someone who still has direct access to Wakandan technology.

For example, it could be an arms smuggler who would operate on the border of Wakanda ... it would provide a very easy way to introduce Moses Magnum as the next villain in Black Panther 2 or 3.


Another (paranoid) hypothesis would be that it was Nakia who gave the weapon to Klaue. It doesn't mean that she was a part of Killmonger's plan. As a War Dog, she might have shared the same view on Wakanda than N'Jobu. Just like Klaue, she seems to know very well the lady of the underground casino in Busan. Still, it is unlikely : Klaue would have betrayed her after his capture ...



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,024



I'm still rooting for Achebe. He once killed a guy for selling his cheating wife some shoes.







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Toe Rag


Member Since: Mon May 14, 2012
Posts: 698


And this is why i won't see the movie. I can enjoy people turning into huge, green, rage monsters, or gods with hammers, but I draw the line on a country in Africa with superior scientific knowledge.


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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 528


I disagree, not only can your tie much of the problems facing modern-day Africa back directly to the age of Imperialism but you take it one step farther and say that the rise of the industrial revolution in Europe and America (as well as Japan) led to this imperialism. If not the need for natural resources, new markets or places for expanding populations, all fueled by militaristic nationalism, there would have been no need for Africa.

The Berlin Conference, like the hundreds of years of the slave trade before it, set the path of the continent for the 20th century and into the 21st. The white colonizers were simply replaced by equally corrupt natives that used their power to subjugate their people. Meet the new boss, same as the old, but the modus operandi was set and patterned after the imperial invaders. Look at the history of Rwanda as the perfect case example. And one can't underscore the negative effects the politics of the Cold War had in Africa. How many times were horrible leaders legitimized and propped up in the name of one ideology or another with no regard of the people? The Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Chad or Mobutu in Zaire are all sad yet perfect examples of that.

The imperialists may have left physically, but they continue to influence these countries today be it economically, socially or politically. I mean look what American Christian evangelical groups are doing TODAY in Kenya and Zimbabwe and tell me if the roles were reversed we wouldn't see this as a near act of war?


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,024




    Quote:
    And this is why i won't see the movie. I can enjoy people turning into huge, green, rage monsters, or gods with hammers, but I draw the line on a country in Africa with superior scientific knowledge.


That's the appeal to me. You're getting to see a great what if story. What if there was a country in Africa that had never been carved up by Europeans and was allowed to achieve greatness.

Wakanda has always been one of Stan and Jack's better ideas. Maybe even better than they ever imagined it was.







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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 528


Agreed. 100%. It harkens back to the great trading empire of Ghana, Mali, and Songhai, they flourished with art, and science and literature and riches while Western Europe lived in the darkness of the Middle Ages. I feel like I read somewhere they were Stan's inspiration for the kingdom of Wakanda.


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Toe Rag


Member Since: Mon May 14, 2012
Posts: 698


LMAO! Or maybe it would be much worse. Within 50 years after WWII, Japan became an economical power. 50 years after colonial rule, Africa is still filled with shitholes.


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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 528


Ah....are you familiar with what the US and USSR did to the African countries during the Cold War? Please read my earlier post regarding, in essence, the continuation of imperialism via that period after WWII.

And Japan.....

First of all, the whole point of the Meiji restoration was to prevent Japanese colonization, and they were successful. Japan was an industrialized, militarized, nationalistic empire in need of natural resources, no different than the rest of the industrialized countries at the start of World War II.

As for Japan after the war, they rose above the war in great part to the support and control of the USA. We basically, from 1945 and 1952, were an occupying force in Japan, led by General Douglas A. MacArthur, enacted widespread military, political, economic, and social reforms. And Japan had been an industrialized power before the war rival to most European countries and superior to the USSR.

What did the Europeans do when setting free their colonies Africa? In some cases cut and run, in others purposely weaken them (think the partitioning of India) and in some prop up pro-European regimes. Steal all the cookies in the cookie jar.

That is a poor example.


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Toe Rag


Member Since: Mon May 14, 2012
Posts: 698


Yadda, yadda, yadda. More excuses for why certain people can't succeed. I don't care. And I won't go to see a movie that shows a complete farce. My disbelief won't go something that is being propped up for PC.


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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 528


Dude, you lack a grasp of basic history and economics. I am so sorry your grade school history teachers failed you so badly. Yadda yadda...read a book once in a while maybe even do a little research from reliable sources so that you sound less ignorant on topics you clearly think your "feelings" supersede reality.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,024




    Quote:
    Dude, you lack a grasp of basic history and economics. I am so sorry your grade school history teachers failed you so badly. Yadda yadda...read a book once in a while maybe even do a little research from reliable sources so that you sound less ignorant on topics you clearly think your "feelings" supersede reality.


I blame our current president. I think now that he's in power every two bit racist, conspiracy theorist, schizophrenic, idiot or gun nut feels like they've been vindicated now that they have one of their own in power. We used to institutionalize people on the fringe like this but now they're mainstream. It's scary out there.





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The Voice of Reason


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 528


I couldn't agree more Reverend Meteor. They have no interest in reality or facts or compassion for others, only their own warped perception of the world, emboldened by the Commander and Cheif Crack-pot himself.


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