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Author
seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,822


On one hand, the Silver Surfer is rightly considered the most powerful Marvel hero. The Power Cosmic lets him do nearly anything required by story. He has a long list of powers that allow easy wins and is sometimes called upon to easily defeat threats no one else can handle.

On the other, he sometimes struggles with threats he should have an easy time with. Frequently, he forgets about his powers aside from cosmic blasts. You even have a few rare instances like the infamous brick incident.

So, where do you place the Silver Surfer? How does he do against the following both at full potential and how he is usually written?

Silver Surfer vs.

Superman (can he energy drain him?)

Wonder Woman

Martian Manhunter

Jane-Thor

Blue Marvel

Current Iron Man


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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,221




    Quote:
    On one hand, the Silver Surfer is rightly considered the most powerful Marvel hero. The Power Cosmic lets him do nearly anything required by story. He has a long list of powers that allow easy wins and is sometimes called upon to easily defeat threats no one else can handle.


Very High Level Herald/Low Level Skyfather Level.


    Quote:
    On the other, he sometimes struggles with threats he should have an easy time with. Frequently, he forgets about his powers aside from cosmic blasts. You even have a few rare instances like the infamous brick incident.


Which is the only explanation as to why he usually loses to Thor. If he used even half his powers, he'd easily wipe the floor with Thor. But instead, he fights like a total idiot who forgets how to use his powers.


    Quote:
    Superman (can he energy drain him?)



Idiot Surfer struggles but eventually wins in a good fight. Surfer at full potential wins so quickly, it's not even a fight.


    Quote:
    Wonder Woman



    Quote:
    Martian Manhunter


Any version of Surfer wins against these two.


    Quote:
    Jane-Thor


See Superman


    Quote:
    Blue Marvel


See Superman


    Quote:
    Current Iron Man


Any version of Surfer wins.





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072



    Quote:
    On one hand, the Silver Surfer is rightly considered the most powerful Marvel hero. The Power Cosmic lets him do nearly anything required by story. He has a long list of powers that allow easy wins and is sometimes called upon to easily defeat threats no one else can handle.


That's not quite true. There are instances of him being considered the most powerful hero marvel has but he isn't consistently considered as such.

He is high herald.


    Quote:
    On the other, he sometimes struggles with threats he should have an easy time with. Frequently, he forgets about his powers aside from cosmic blasts. You even have a few rare instances like the infamous brick incident.


Most characters are like that. Flash should beat all his rogues in a split second as well and speed force lets him do pretty much anything. Same with Green Lantern.


    Quote:
    So, where do you place the Silver Surfer? How does he do against the following both at full potential and how he is usually written?



    Quote:
    Silver Surfer vs.



    Quote:
    Superman (can he energy drain him?)


Not likely in a comic. It's Superman's fight to lose.


    Quote:
    Wonder Woman


Surfer.


    Quote:
    Martian Manhunter


Surfer.


    Quote:
    Jane-Thor


Jane.


    Quote:
    Blue Marvel


Split


    Quote:
    Current Iron Man


Surfer


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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 467



A fight win doesn't necessarily equate to being more powerful, however...

Silver Surfer vs.

Superman (can he energy drain him?)- can he, yes, he can also analyze him and use kryptonite radiation against him. He may not think to, however, and so he could lose a fight to Superman feasibly if he doesn't go for those tactics. I do think Surfer is overall more powerful than Supes though, but its not by a large margin

Wonder Woman- Surfer is clearly a level beyond her in power, but she doesn't have readily exploitable weaknesses, and her strength and durability in these kinds of fights is competitive with his, so she can make it a close, hard fight IMO, but he is still the favorite


Martian Manhunter - Martian Manhunter is, on paper, more powerful than Superman, at least in Post Crisis DC. In practice, however, he doesn't pack enough punch in any one area to be the favorite over Surfer, or Superman for that matter....

Jane-Thor- I only read one TPB with Jane, but my understanding is she has some very good showings (vs. Odin for example) and uses her powers effectively. If so, this could probably go either way. I think Thor classically is dead even with Surfer in overall power, with Thor having a bit of a base strength advantage and raw output advantage, with Surfer having a bit of a versatility advantage. Thor wins those fights because he's got enough versatility to close, and then make Surfer fight his fight....


Blue Marvel- don't know

Current Iron Man- For decades now, every time Iron Man gets an upgrade, it sticks, but in terms of power he still ends up sitting in about the same place relative to most of the other main characters in Marvel...so Surfer, despite having been beaten by IM before...Surfer will always be the favorite IMO.



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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 17,408


He has the sheer power, but is not that skilled, nor really have a heart for fightning, so any of those listed could beat him if they were gpoing all out, and Norrin stays passive.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 17,408


Thor pretty much has been shown to be superior to Norrin when they mnatched up, or at least his equal, due to His Hammer and Norris not really being a fighter.

Same reason Diana would be a touch match up for him...

Superman is now as powerful as him, and is more skilled and determined...

IF you get the all potential go SS, only a Thanos level up defeats him, but how often do we really see that?


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,104



    Quote:
    On one hand, the Silver Surfer is rightly considered the most powerful Marvel hero. The Power Cosmic lets him do nearly anything required by story. He has a long list of powers that allow easy wins and is sometimes called upon to easily defeat threats no one else can handle.



    Quote:
    On the other, he sometimes struggles with threats he should have an easy time with. Frequently, he forgets about his powers aside from cosmic blasts. You even have a few rare instances like the infamous brick incident.


Or the Black Panther arm bar.


    Quote:
    So, where do you place the Silver Surfer? How does he do against the following both at full potential and how he is usually written?



    Quote:
    Silver Surfer vs.



    Quote:
    Superman (can he energy drain him?)


Either version beats Superman due to energy drain.


    Quote:
    Wonder Woman


Either version beats Wonder Woman. She does have a chance but only if she closes the distance immediately and perhaps surprise Norrin with speed and brutality.


    Quote:
    Martian Manhunter


Either version beats MM unless it's a supremely high MM showing against an average Surfer.


    Quote:
    Jane-Thor


Given Jane's relative inexperience, either version of Surfer should win, but average Surfer will at best be 50/50. High-end Surfer will win against average Jane, but if Jane is overtly aided by the Mother Storm in Mjolnir, even high-end Surfer would go down.


    Quote:
    Blue Marvel


This is a hard call. Blue Marvel has hardly any low showings and he's had great showings against Sentry and King Hyperion. Maybe with more appearances, he'd come down some, but right now I'd say high-end Surfer wins but average Surfer loses.


    Quote:
    Current Iron Man


IM can pull off an upset as he has before, but either version of Surfer is a strong favorite.




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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072


Energy drain is hardly a auto win against Superman due to his experience with energy drainers like Parasite and his own high resistance to such attacks.

It has hardly come into play with high level energy manipulators like Green Lantern (Kyle has actually drained power cosmic itself from Parallax), Captain Atom etc.

Surfer doesn't use energy drain that much either. He is not Quasar or Rogue.


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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072


Such a version of Surfer has never existed. Surfer had his hands full with Cyborg Superman, he is not powerful enough to dismiss Superman.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,104



    Quote:
    Energy drain is hardly a auto win against Superman due to his experience with energy drainers like Parasite and his own high resistance to such attacks.



    Quote:
    It has hardly come into play with high level energy manipulators like Green Lantern (Kyle has actually drained power cosmic itself from Parallax), Captain Atom etc.



    Quote:
    Surfer doesn't use energy drain that much either. He is not Quasar or Rogue.


The closest Surfer has come to fighting a Superman analogue in Marvel is Gladiator, and Surfer's immediate response was the he could manipulate Gladiator's energies to beat him easily. That tells me Surfer could do the same to Superman. Surfer's energy manipulation is at a much higher level than Parasite's, Kyle's, Quasar's, and most versions of Captain Atom's.






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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Energy drain is hardly a auto win against Superman due to his experience with energy drainers like Parasite and his own high resistance to such attacks.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        It has hardly come into play with high level energy manipulators like Green Lantern (Kyle has actually drained power cosmic itself from Parallax), Captain Atom etc.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Surfer doesn't use energy drain that much either. He is not Quasar or Rogue.



    Quote:
    The closest Surfer has come to fighting a Superman analogue in Marvel is Gladiator, and Surfer's immediate response was the he could manipulate Gladiator's energies to beat him easily. That tells me Surfer could do the same to Superman. Surfer's energy manipulation is at a much higher level than Parasite's, Kyle's, Quasar's, and most versions of Captain Atom's.



    Quote:



Actually Surfer said he knew Gladiator had a radiation weakness and could use it to beat him. But in actual practice when he fought Krosakis with Gladiator's powers, he used only energy blasts.

Surfer has been shown inferior to Quasar twice in energy manipulation. Once against Dampyre who defeated Surfer by draining him and then Quasar overloaded him in the very next issue. Second time was against Ego in Maximum Security where Surfer nearly died trying to absorb Ego's energy but Quasar absorbed all of Ego's power.

Parasite, Kyle and Atom all have feats putting them ahead of Surfer in energy manipulation.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,104



    Quote:
    Actually Surfer said he knew Gladiator had a radiation weakness and could use it to beat him. But in actual practice when he fought Krosakis with Gladiator's powers, he used only energy blasts.


Okay, so Surfer can just generate Kryptonite to beat Superman. It's an even easier win then.


    Quote:
    Surfer has been shown inferior to Quasar twice in energy manipulation. Once against Dampyre who defeated Surfer by draining him and then Quasar overloaded him in the very next issue. Second time was against Ego in Maximum Security where Surfer nearly died trying to absorb Ego's energy but Quasar absorbed all of Ego's power.


I haven't read those issues, but in a direct head-to-head matchup with Quasar, Surfer first claims to be more powerful than the Quantum-Bands and then Quasar can't even energy drain the Surfer to a degree sufficient for the Surfer to even notice.



And here Surfer casually breaks free from Quasar's energy construct meant to hold the Surfer:



    Quote:
    Parasite, Kyle and Atom all have feats putting them ahead of Surfer in energy manipulation.


Only when they are in a powered-up incarnation; otherwise, nope. Can a normal Parasite, Kyle, and Captain Atom manipulate energy to disable all machinery on Earth?





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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Actually Surfer said he knew Gladiator had a radiation weakness and could use it to beat him. But in actual practice when he fought Krosakis with Gladiator's powers, he used only energy blasts.


    Quote:
    Okay, so Surfer can just generate Kryptonite to beat Superman. It's an even easier win then.

He knew about Gladiator's weakness. He doesn't knows that about Superman. 


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Surfer has been shown inferior to Quasar twice in energy manipulation. Once against Dampyre who defeated Surfer by draining him and then Quasar overloaded him in the very next issue. Second time was against Ego in Maximum Security where Surfer nearly died trying to absorb Ego's energy but Quasar absorbed all of Ego's power.


    Quote:
    I haven't read those issues, but in a direct head-to-head matchup with Quasar, Surfer first claims to be more powerful than the Quantum-Bands and then Quasar can't even energy drain the Surfer to a degree sufficient for the Surfer to even notice.

Being more powerful doesn't means you're more skilled. 

Here is Wendell absorbing Ego's power. 

http://i.imgur.com/YjoZOtJ.jpg

Surfer unable to do so. 

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11131/111313017/5725402-maximum+security+003-023.jpg

https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11131/111313017/5725403-maximum+security+003-030.jpg


    Quote:
And here Surfer casually breaks free from Quasar's energy construct meant to hold the Surfer:

Again, not an energy manipulation feat. Lots of characters have broken free from Quasar's constructs. 




    Quote:

    Quote:
    Parasite, Kyle and Atom all have feats putting them ahead of Surfer in energy manipulation.


    Quote:
    Only when they are in a powered-up incarnation; otherwise, nope. Can a normal Parasite, Kyle, and Captain Atom manipulate energy to disable all machinery on Earth?


    Quote:


That's energy manipulation? This is energy manipulation. Kyle contains an entropic quantum singularity.

http://imgur.com/a/PSlzP

Further, Surfer has failed to stabilize a dying red sun on his own.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KZax9YbcpJw/VoTR_2ylDvI/AAAAAAAARBM/bsEWyliJ4nk/s1600-Ic42/RCO008.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KKme3X597Os/VoTSAdA7HgI/AAAAAAAARBM/0drTfLzpII0/s1600-Ic42/RCO010.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ynb-mQXzCAE/VoTSAmDdoLI/AAAAAAAARBM/u95-Zh2MzKA/s1600-Ic42/RCO011.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KsS5ThjGwLI/VoTSBf-Y3sI/AAAAAAAARBM/OLtpUM88_Tc/s1600-Ic42/RCO013.jpg

While even blue lanterns have stabilized dying red suns easily.

http://postimg.org/image/yyqcd4vhp/
http://postimg.org/image/4ikff09yl/

And even a total noob Tom Kalmaku recreated all of Oa and its advanced tech from scratch by a GL ring.

https://s26.postimg.org/v6ancpl3t/image.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/f9ggtqi3d/image.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/h2jdi23a1/image.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/5rgptowex/image.jpg

Now that is tech manipulation.



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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,104



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Okay, so Surfer can just generate Kryptonite to beat Superman. It's an even easier win then.



    Quote:
    He knew about Gladiator's weakness. He doesn't knows that about Superman.


Are you kidding me? Surfer would sense the weakness right away, the same way he senses it in Gladiator who is a Silver Age Superboy clone.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      I haven't read those issues, but in a direct head-to-head matchup with Quasar, Surfer first claims to be more powerful than the Quantum-Bands and then Quasar can't even energy drain the Surfer to a degree sufficient for the Surfer to even notice.



    Quote:
    Being more powerful doesn't means you're more skilled.


I didn't say anything about skill, just that Surfer is a higher level energy manipulator; whether that is by skill or power is irrelevant. In a direct comparison, Quasar can't remotely drain the Surfer. That contradicts your claims about the Ego showing. If Surfer already houses more power than Quasar can drain, then how can Quasar contain more power than Surfer?


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Parasite, Kyle and Atom all have feats putting them ahead of Surfer in energy manipulation.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Only when they are in a powered-up incarnation; otherwise, nope. Can a normal Parasite, Kyle, and Captain Atom manipulate energy to disable all machinery on Earth?



    Quote:
    That's energy manipulation? This is energy manipulation. Kyle contains an entropic quantum singularity.


Kyle "contains" a singularity. That's measly compared to making one as Surfer from his own energies as he does here:





    Quote:
    Further, Surfer has failed to stabilize a dying red sun on his own.

Wow, you do realize that Surfer's attempt is interrupted when he's attacked from behind! Your own scan puts a big asterisk on your own claim.


    Quote:
    While even blue lanterns have stabilized dying red suns easily.

Parasite, Kyle and Captain Atom are not Blue Lanterns! If I'm arguing Spider-Man is more powerful than Captain America, you saying Hulk is more powerful than Spider-Man is completely meaningless to the debate.


    Quote:
    And even a total noob Tom Kalmaku recreated all of Oa and its advanced tech from scratch by a GL ring.


I haven't read this story so I don't have the full context, but on the face of it, it screams plot-induced stupidity. I almost never resort to claims of bad writing to dismiss a feat, but it's nonsensical that a GL ring can recreate Oa and its power battery, which itself should be far more powerful than a GL ring. If a GL ring can do that, Hal should have been able to recreate a permanent Coast City after it was destroyed. A city is nothing compared to a planet. And after Oa got destroyed again by Relic, why didn't any single Lantern just recreate it? So basically, you want to represent a one-off total outlier feat as normal.




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timgagnonorg@gmail.com


Member Since: Fri Jun 24, 2016
Posts: 39


I rank him pretty high. He is the mark where High-End Herald ends and low-end Team Buster begins.

Superman (can he energy drain him?) I believe he can. The very nature of the Surfer is that he can see and manipulate all matter and energy at the subatomic level. His vision is on a cosmic scale. He doesn't need to concentrate or "adjust his vision" to see what makes Superman tick, it would be intuitive. He would see it instantly, and his experience and cosmic awareness would analyze the information just as fast. Radiation empowered characters like Hulk, Superman, Captain Atom are extremely handicapped facing the Surfer.

Wonder Woman - is a lot like Thor in that she does not have a weakness for the Surfer to easily exploit. Her braceletts can fend off a lot of his attacks and she has a a lot of weapons that she can use against him. She is an underdog, but she can win this one on any given day.

Martian Manhunter - The Martian could give the Surfer some serious trouble. His fire weakness is psychosomatic so the surfer could not glean this information "at a glance". This one could go either way.

Jane-Thor - Surfer should win this by sheer experience alone. However, Marvel is making Jane-Thor give Odin trouble and the sentient hammer is doing most of the heavy lifting for her so she COULD win this. The Hammer is what has really allowed Thor to beat Surfer in their battles. Mjolnir can pretty much block anything the surfer attempts and has more powerful EP especially with the sentient hammer not holding back.

Blue Marvel: I don't know that much about him, but I understand that he did very well against Sentry so that says a lot.

Iron-Man: Iron Man's armor is simply much too easy a construct for the Surfer to use his more exotic powers on. Unlike Dr. Doom who augments his Armor's defenses with Magic. Iron-Man would get his licks in, but Surfer should be able to suck the power right out of the suit (turn it off) any time he wants to.


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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Okay, so Surfer can just generate Kryptonite to beat Superman. It's an even easier win then.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        He knew about Gladiator's weakness. He doesn't knows that about Superman.



    Quote:
    Are you kidding me? Surfer would sense the weakness right away, the same way he senses it in Gladiator who is a Silver Age Superboy clone.

He didn't sense anything. He already knew that Gladiator has a weakness to a certain radiation.



Yet, he didn't use it against Krosakis who was powered by Gladiator. Neither did he use any weakness against Dr Spectrum who is specifically vulnerable to ultraviolet rays and has been beaten that way several times.

Its highly unlikely that Surfer would try to use weakness exploitation when he has never done that.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        I haven't read those issues, but in a direct head-to-head matchup with Quasar, Surfer first claims to be more powerful than the Quantum-Bands and then Quasar can't even energy drain the Surfer to a degree sufficient for the Surfer to even notice.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Being more powerful doesn't means you're more skilled.



    Quote:
    I didn't say anything about skill, just that Surfer is a higher level energy manipulator; whether that is by skill or power is irrelevant. In a direct comparison, Quasar can't remotely drain the Surfer. That contradicts your claims about the Ego showing. If Surfer already houses more power than Quasar can drain, then how can Quasar contain more power than Surfer?

Quasar was draining Surfer, he was just too powerful to fully drain.

Not that Surfer claiming to be more powerful than Quantum bands is a sure fact. Here, Dampyre drains Surfer fully and defeats him. Quasar straight up overloads him.

https://s6.postimg.org/wtqgceiy9/Star_Masters_3_019.jpg">



Quasar was shown to be more powerful and more skilled than Surfer despite whatever claims Surfer made.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Parasite, Kyle and Atom all have feats putting them ahead of Surfer in energy manipulation.

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Only when they are in a powered-up incarnation; otherwise, nope. Can a normal Parasite, Kyle, and Captain Atom manipulate energy to disable all machinery on Earth?

        Quote:

          Quote:
          That's energy manipulation? This is energy manipulation. Kyle contains an entropic quantum singularity.



    Quote:
    Kyle "contains" a singularity. That's measly compared to making one as Surfer from his own energies as he does here:

Kyle containing an entropic singularity which was going to destroy entire solar system is much more impressive than Surfer creating one. A random darkstar and a GL clashing created a black hole as well.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/30863878/Darkstars_1992_24_-_21.jpg.html

We are talking about energy manipulation and GL ring is unparalleled in doing so. Hence why even Thanos said that only Kyle's ring can channel the power of Oa enough to destroy both DC and marvel universes.





And how Kyle defeated both Thanos and Parallax powered up by power cosmic by draining them both. A far superior feat than any Surfer has ever shown.


    Quote:


Please, Oblivion who was only a construct of Kyle's ring could create black holes easily.





    Quote:


      Quote:
      Further, Surfer has failed to stabilize a dying red sun on his own.

    Wow, you do realize that Surfer's attempt is interrupted when he's attacked from behind! Your own scan puts a big asterisk on your own claim.

Even with extra power he gained from those "interruptions" he could only stabilize the sun for 1000 years. Blue Lanterns reduced the age of stars to billions of years less.

And his attempts were having minimal effects even using his full power. There was no chance he could stabilize the sun on his own.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      While even blue lanterns have stabilized dying red suns easily.

    Parasite, Kyle and Captain Atom are not Blue Lanterns! If I'm arguing Spider-Man is more powerful than Captain America, you saying Hulk is more powerful than Spider-Man is completely meaningless to the debate.

Yes, blue lanterns are less powerful than Green Lanterns.

Hulk isn't less powerful than Spider-man.


    Quote:
    And even a total noob Tom Kalmaku recreated all of Oa and its advanced tech from scratch by a GL ring.



    Quote:
    I haven't read this story so I don't have the full context, but on the face of it, it screams plot-induced stupidity. I almost never resort to claims of bad writing to dismiss a feat, but it's nonsensical that a GL ring can recreate Oa and its power battery, which itself should be far more powerful than a GL ring. If a GL ring can do that, Hal should have been able to recreate a permanent Coast City after it was destroyed. A city is nothing compared to a planet. And after Oa got destroyed again by Relic, why didn't any single Lantern just recreate it? So basically, you want to represent a one-off total outlier feat as normal.


The power battery was created but there was no power in it due to Ion having the power.

Its not the first time either a GL has recreated a planet or a world. Kyle created an entire world out of nothingness.


Kyle recreated a planet out of debris to imprison Traitor.


Heck, Hal's ring was used to shrink down entire earth to microscopic level.

https://s6.postimg.org/po3anoz8x/legendsofthedcu29p02.jpg https://s6.postimg.org/6ybb6y6i9/legendsofthedcu29p03.jpg" target="_self">https://s6.postimg.org/z9wv3zqep/legendsofthedcu29p01.jpg

I won't even post the time a GL ring created an entire alternate reality.



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Vangrab


Member Since: Wed May 24, 2017
Posts: 132



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Actually Surfer said he knew Gladiator had a radiation weakness and could use it to beat him. But in actual practice when he fought Krosakis with Gladiator's powers, he used only energy blasts.



    Quote:
    Okay, so Surfer can just generate Kryptonite to beat Superman. It's an even easier win then.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Surfer has been shown inferior to Quasar twice in energy manipulation. Once against Dampyre who defeated Surfer by draining him and then Quasar overloaded him in the very next issue. Second time was against Ego in Maximum Security where Surfer nearly died trying to absorb Ego's energy but Quasar absorbed all of Ego's power.



    Quote:
    I haven't read those issues, but in a direct head-to-head matchup with Quasar, Surfer first claims to be more powerful than the Quantum-Bands and then Quasar can't even energy drain the Surfer to a degree sufficient for the Surfer to even notice.


Actually one thing is what SS said and it's completely other thing what it was actually shown, the fact is that Q-bands can truly absorb truly infinite amounts of energy, something that SS cannot do. Plus Q-bands can generate any amount of energy to fire it on any opponent in a split second to destroy him/her, again this is something that SS can never do-meaning if he stops holding back Quasar could easily defeat any opponent no matter how tough or powerf he/SHE IS.





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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,104



    Quote:
    He didn't sense anything. He already knew that Gladiator has a weakness to a certain radiation.
And how did Surfer learn the weakness? He didn't comb through a library. He sensed it. It's part of his power set to sense energy and energy signatures. Just like he did with Gladiator, he can do with Superman.


    Quote:
    Its highly unlikely that Surfer would try to use weakness exploitation when he has never done that.

Like the times he's drained the Hulk?


    Quote:
    Quasar was draining Surfer, he was just too powerful to fully drain.


That still goes counter to the Ego example. Quasar can drain Ego but not Surfer? Comic writers aren't always that consistent.


    Quote:
    Kyle containing an entropic singularity which was going to destroy entire solar system is much more impressive than Surfer creating one. A random darkstar and a GL clashing created a black hole as well.



    Quote:
    We are talking about energy manipulation and GL ring is unparalleled in doing so. Hence why even Thanos said that only Kyle's ring can channel the power of Oa enough to destroy both DC and marvel universes.



    Quote:
    Kyle recreated a planet out of debris to imprison Traitor.

You can name all the one-off feats you want and ignore all the low showings of GLs, but when it comes down to the direct head-to-head showing that matters most, this is what happened, the Silver Surfer cleanly beat Green Lantern:







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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072


But if you really want to compare a GL ring and Surfer, here is Surfer admitting he can't deal with a marble sized black hole and Beta Ray Bill had to teleport it away.

https://s6.postimg.org/45mp0nvjl/Star_Masters_2_017.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/snesojy41/Star_Masters_2_018.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/kj6ojtbox/Star_Masters_2_019.jpg


While Kyle just absorbs a sun sized black hole in his ring which was destabilizing the sun and had previously destroyed a whole solar system doing so.

https://s6.postimg.org/6x5yr9u29/GL166_01.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/mce6lvm9d/GL166_02-03.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/8y13pufld/GL166_14.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/mqfilh6cx/GL167_16-17.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/czdlhrii9/GL167_18.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/g3o9ejzap/GL167_19.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/52t49j71t/GL167_20.jpg

And Surfer failed to rearrange rocky mountains after Beyonder turned them into dust. Let alone recreate entire planets.

https://s6.postimg.org/x31t7jzw1/Avengers266-11.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/gyfeebwj5/Avengers266-12.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/sv70ysygh/Avengers266-13.jpg


Kyle recreates a planet from debris.

https://s6.postimg.org/okj6bqelt/legendsofthedcu38p22.jpg

Kyle reconstructed another planet from asteroids.

https://s6.postimg.org/ov4h0axdd/Green_Lantern_OWAW_2001_001_09-10.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/dazn89oc1/Green_Lantern_OWAW_2001_001_11-12.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/8rnemr6gh/Green_Lantern_OWAW_2001_001_13.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/4z8hkrgc1/Green_Lantern_OWAW_2001_001_14.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/cmqspbpm9/Green_Lantern_OWAW_2001_001_15.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/mnvmyn2pd/Green_Lantern_OWAW_2001_001_16.jpg



Posted with Google Chrome 61.0.3163.79 on Windows 7
motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072



    Quote:

      Quote:
      He didn't sense anything. He already knew that Gladiator has a weakness to a certain radiation.
    And how did Surfer learn the weakness? He didn't comb through a library. He sensed it. It's part of his power set to sense energy and energy signatures. Just like he did with Gladiator, he can do with Superman.

It's not a particularly well hidden secret. Skrulls have the knowledge of it as well.

There is no indication that Surfer tried to sense his weakness. He just knew it already.



    Quote:

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      Its highly unlikely that Surfer would try to use weakness exploitation when he has never done that.

    Like the times he's drained the Hulk?
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        Quasar was draining Surfer, he was just too powerful to fully drain.



    Quote:
    That still goes counter to the Ego example. Quasar can drain Ego but not Surfer? Comic writers aren't always that consistent.


Well Quasar had help from Reed's device. Surfer failed with the device too.

Quasar has drained a watcher too BTW.




    Quote:

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      Kyle containing an entropic singularity which was going to destroy entire solar system is much more impressive than Surfer creating one. A random darkstar and a GL clashing created a black hole as well.

      Quote:

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        We are talking about energy manipulation and GL ring is unparalleled in doing so. Hence why even Thanos said that only Kyle's ring can channel the power of Oa enough to destroy both DC and marvel universes.

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          Quote:
          Kyle recreated a planet out of debris to imprison Traitor.

        You can name all the one-off feats you want and ignore all the low showings of GLs, but when it comes down to the direct head-to-head showing that matters most, this is what happened, the Silver Surfer cleanly beat Green Lantern:



    Quote:




These are not one off showings. They have a history of it as I just shown.

Yes, and Storm defeated Wonder Woman and Wolverine defeated Lobo. Fan voted fights were ridiculous like that.

And you'll notice even there Surfer didn't manipulate Oan energy.


Posted with Opera 9.80 on Windows 7
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,104



    Quote:

      Quote:
      And how did Surfer learn the weakness? He didn't comb through a library. He sensed it. It's part of his power set to sense energy and energy signatures. Just like he did with Gladiator, he can do with Superman.



    Quote:
    It's not a particularly well hidden secret. Skrulls have the knowledge of it as well.


Right, and naturally the Skrulls shared it with Surfer. Occam's razor, dude.


    Quote:
    There is no indication that Surfer tried to sense his weakness. He just knew it already.


"He just knew it" is a really poor explanation.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      You can name all the one-off feats you want and ignore all the low showings of GLs, but when it comes down to the direct head-to-head showing that matters most, this is what happened, the Silver Surfer cleanly beat Green Lantern:





    Quote:
    These are not one off showings. They have a history of it as I just shown.

    Yes, and Storm defeated Wonder Woman and Wolverine defeated Lobo. Fan voted fights were ridiculous like that.


Nice try misleading again, but this wasn't a fan voted fight like Wonder Woman and Lobo. It was DC and Marvel's decision.


    Quote:
    And you'll notice even there Surfer didn't manipulate Oan energy.


He didn't have to, he was just too much for GL.




Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072




    Quote:
    Right, and naturally the Skrulls shared it with Surfer. Occam's razor, dude.


Occam's razor also applies to Surfer sensing it out of nowhere when it was never mentioned.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      There is no indication that Surfer tried to sense his weakness. He just knew it already.



    Quote:
    "He just knew it" is a really poor explanation.


That's what the comic shows. Can you show me otherwise where he sensed it?



    Quote:

      Quote:
      These are not one off showings. They have a history of it as I just shown.



      Quote:
      Yes, and Storm defeated Wonder Woman and Wolverine defeated Lobo. Fan voted fights were ridiculous like that.



    Quote:
    Nice try misleading again, but this wasn't a fan voted fight like Wonder Woman and Lobo. It was DC and Marvel's decision.


It was randomly decided who wins and who loses. Hence Aquaman defeating Namor who was superior to him in every way.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      And you'll notice even there Surfer didn't manipulate Oan energy.



    Quote:
    He didn't have to, he was just too much for GL.


Physically, sure. A GL isn't noted for his physical power anyway. He showed Surfer who is the boss in energy manipulation already.


Posted with Opera 9.80 on Windows 7
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,104



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Right, and naturally the Skrulls shared it with Surfer. Occam's razor, dude.
    Occam's razor also applies to Surfer sensing it out of nowhere when it was never mentioned.


Surfer's been shown doing stuff like that a hundred times over the years. That's his power!


    Quote:

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        Quote:
        There is no indication that Surfer tried to sense his weakness. He just knew it already.
      "He just knew it" is a really poor explanation.
    That's what the comic shows. Can you show me otherwise where he sensed it?


Dude, what is the better explanation, Surfer learned it from the Skrull's or he used his powers to sense it?


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Yes, and Storm defeated Wonder Woman and Wolverine defeated Lobo. Fan voted fights were ridiculous like that.
      Nice try misleading again, but this wasn't a fan voted fight like Wonder Woman and Lobo. It was DC and Marvel's decision.
    It was randomly decided who wins and who loses. Hence Aquaman defeating Namor who was superior to him in every way.


Are you serious? You think DC and Marvel writers and editors flipped coins to determine the winners in the comic? You're losing all credibility here.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      He didn't have to, he was just too much for GL.
    Physically, sure. A GL isn't noted for his physical power anyway. He showed Surfer who is the boss in energy manipulation already.


Clearly not boss enough to win in a direct head-to-head fight though.




Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072



    Quote:
    Surfer's been shown doing stuff like that a hundred times over the years. That's his power!


Can you show us a single time he sensed someone's weaknesses out of these hundreds of times?




    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          There is no indication that Surfer tried to sense his weakness. He just knew it already.
        "He just knew it" is a really poor explanation.
      That's what the comic shows. Can you show me otherwise where he sensed it?



    Quote:
    Dude, what is the better explanation, Surfer learned it from the Skrull's or he used his powers to sense it?


It's not really any explanation as it is nowhere even implied.

The explanation for this is that Surfer knew of strontian weakness due to his travels across the cosmos.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Yes, and Storm defeated Wonder Woman and Wolverine defeated Lobo. Fan voted fights were ridiculous like that.
        Nice try misleading again, but this wasn't a fan voted fight like Wonder Woman and Lobo. It was DC and Marvel's decision.
      It was randomly decided who wins and who loses. Hence Aquaman defeating Namor who was superior to him in every way.



    Quote:
    Are you serious? You think DC and Marvel writers and editors flipped coins to determine the winners in the comic? You're losing all credibility here.


Yes, that's exactly what happened. PAD and Marz said so later.

http://www.peterdavid.net/2014/09/05/on-writing-dc-vs-marvel/


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        He didn't have to, he was just too much for GL.
      Physically, sure. A GL isn't noted for his physical power anyway. He showed Surfer who is the boss in energy manipulation already.



    Quote:
    Clearly not boss enough to win in a direct head-to-head fight though.


He didn't try to though. If he had done so, it would be over for Surfer.


Posted with Opera 9.80 on Windows 7
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,104



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Surfer's been shown doing stuff like that a hundred times over the years. That's his power!



    Quote:
    Can you show us a single time he sensed someone's weaknesses out of these hundreds of times?


First, I said he's been doing stuff LIKE that a hundred times over the years, that is sensing stuff. But here is one scan showing Surfer sensing weaknesses he can exploit of both Vision (electrical frequencies) and Wonder Man (ionic energy).




    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:

            Quote:
            There is no indication that Surfer tried to sense his weakness. He just knew it already.
          "He just knew it" is a really poor explanation.
        That's what the comic shows. Can you show me otherwise where he sensed it?
      Dude, what is the better explanation, Surfer learned it from the Skrull's or he used his powers to sense it?
    It's not really any explanation as it is nowhere even implied.

    The explanation for this is that Surfer knew of strontian weakness due to his travels across the cosmos.

First you said there was no explanation at all and then you just offered one that you clearly made up on your own. The page offers no explanation because every reader who knows the Surfer understands that he has super senses when it come to energy readings even across intergalactic distances.





Trying to deny Surfer could have sensed Gladiator's radiation weakness is just showing complete ignorance of the character.

    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:

            Quote:
            Yes, and Storm defeated Wonder Woman and Wolverine defeated Lobo. Fan voted fights were ridiculous like that.
          Nice try misleading again, but this wasn't a fan voted fight like Wonder Woman and Lobo. It was DC and Marvel's decision.
        It was randomly decided who wins and who loses. Hence Aquaman defeating Namor who was superior to him in every way.
      Are you serious? You think DC and Marvel writers and editors flipped coins to determine the winners in the comic? You're losing all credibility here.
    Yes, that's exactly what happened. PAD and Marz said so later.



    Quote:
    http://www.peterdavid.net/2014/09/05/on-writing-dc-vs-marvel/


You're just trying to gaslight the board now. Nowhere in that link does Peter David say anything about the fights being determined randomly! In fact, he states he was excited to be able to create "official" version of the fights he wrote and he didn't want to write the fan voted fights. He states, "And besides, the 'big, big' match-ups were not the duos from my childhood. Storm, Wolverine, Lobo, and Superboy (as such) weren’t around when I was a kid, nor in my youth was I a fan of Captain America or the Hulk (ironic, all things considered.) But Namor vs. Aquaman, Quicksilver vs. Flash… as noted above, those were the match-ups I’d always wanted to see, even as a kid. So the temptation to do the 'official' versions was irresistible." But of course the biggest reason linking to Peter David on the Surfer fight makes no sense is because David didn't write the Green Lantern/Silver Surfer fight. Ron Marz did!

    Quote:
    He didn't try to though. If he had done so, it would be over for Surfer.

So you think Green Lantern lost because he didn't try? Wow. Talk about making things up.




Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Surfer's been shown doing stuff like that a hundred times over the years. That's his power!

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Can you show us a single time he sensed someone's weaknesses out of these hundreds of times?



    Quote:
    First, I said he's been doing stuff LIKE that a hundred times over the years, that is sensing stuff. But here is one scan showing Surfer sensing weaknesses he can exploit of both Vision (electrical frequencies) and Wonder Man (ionic energy).



    Quote:


That's not sensing weakness, that's sensing the energy patterns of the characters.

C'mon you can show us at least one instance of him actually doing it, right?


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:

            Quote:

              Quote:
              There is no indication that Surfer tried to sense his weakness. He just knew it already.
            "He just knew it" is a really poor explanation.
          That's what the comic shows. Can you show me otherwise where he sensed it?
        Dude, what is the better explanation, Surfer learned it from the Skrull's or he used his powers to sense it?
      It's not really any explanation as it is nowhere even implied.



      Quote:
      The explanation for this is that Surfer knew of strontian weakness due to his travels across the cosmos.

    First you said there was no explanation at all and then you just offered one that you clearly made up on your own. The page offers no explanation because every reader who knows the Surfer understands that he has super senses when it come to energy readings even across intergalactic distances.


Energy reading, yes. Weakness sensing? No. He isn't genis-vell or a cosmic Karnak. That's not how his powers work.

Energy sensing characters don't find weaknesses in characters.


    Quote:




    Trying to deny Surfer could have sensed Gladiator's radiation weakness is just showing complete ignorance of the character.


There is no such depiction for Surfer sensing weaknesses. If there is, do let me know.

He senses energy patterns, not weakness.

    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:

            Quote:
            Yes, and Storm defeated Wonder Woman and Wolverine defeated Lobo. Fan voted fights were ridiculous like that.
          Nice try misleading again, but this wasn't a fan voted fight like Wonder Woman and Lobo. It was DC and Marvel's decision.
        It was randomly decided who wins and who loses. Hence Aquaman defeating Namor who was superior to him in every way.
      Are you serious? You think DC and Marvel writers and editors flipped coins to determine the winners in the comic? You're losing all credibility here.
    Yes, that's exactly what happened. PAD and Marz said so later.

    Quote:

      Quote:
      http://www.peterdavid.net/2014/09/05/on-writing-dc-vs-marvel/

      Quote:
      You're just trying to gaslight the board now. Nowhere in that link does Peter David say anything about the fights being determined randomly!

    Yes, he did. He even says that he wanted Aquaman to win despite Namor being superior because he wanted to show Aquaman was a badass.
      Quote:


      In fact, he states he was excited to be able to create "official" version of the fights he wrote and he didn't want to write the fan voted fights. He states, "And besides, the 'big, big' match-ups were not the duos from my childhood. Storm, Wolverine, Lobo, and Superboy (as such) weren’t around when I was a kid, nor in my youth was I a fan of Captain America or the Hulk (ironic, all things considered.) But Namor vs. Aquaman, Quicksilver vs. Flash… as noted above, those were the match-ups I’d always wanted to see, even as a kid. So the temptation to do the 'official' versions was irresistible."


    I was trying to show this.


      Quote:

      The defeat of Sub-Mariner at the hands (well, hand) of Aquaman caused some fan controversy.
      Mea culpa . When working out the undercards, I issued a plea: I said, “Look, guys, I’m busy trying to earn Aquaman respect in his ongoing series, and he’s got an ongoing title while Namor doesn’t right now. I need to have Aquaman win this bout.” Gruenwald and Carlin said, “How the hell can Aquaman reasonably defeat Namor, who’s clearly so much stronger?” “I don’t know… maybe he can drop a whale on him or something,” I said. Which is what wound up happening.





      Quote:

      But of course the biggest reason linking to Peter David on the Surfer fight makes no sense is because David didn't write the Green Lantern/Silver Surfer fight. Ron Marz did!

    For every win there was one defeat for another character from the same company. In this case as Aquaman defeated Namor, Surfer defeated GL.

    Marz already showed GL as superior to Surfer in GL/SS.
      Quote:




        Quote:
        He didn't try to though. If he had done so, it would be over for Surfer.

      So you think Green Lantern lost because he didn't try? Wow. Talk about making things up.


    The same writer had Kyle defeat Parallax with Surfer's power cosmic and Thanos with Oan power and normal Thanos beat Surfer to death under Marz.

    Suffice to say if Kyle had tried to drain Surfer, it would be over for him. Unless you think Surfer can defeat an amped Thanos when he has repeatedly failed to defeat a normal Thanos.



Posted with Opera 9.80 on Windows 7
Eisadern

You are refusing to make logical connections...

Member Since: Sat Sep 16, 2017
Posts: 1


No one is saying that Surfer flips on his "weakness sensor" switch - that's ridiculous.

But to recognize, sense and understand energy patterns, as you put it, allows him to determine the source or nature of one's power. From there, he is able to leverage that understanding.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 10
UName


Member Since: Tue Mar 10, 2015
Posts: 384


How often does characters use their powers in a logical way?

Just PIS everywhere for the most part.

Admittedly often required due to over-powered characters in the first place though.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 55.0 on Windows 10
motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072



    Quote:
    No one is saying that Surfer flips on his "weakness sensor" switch - that's ridiculous.



    Quote:
    But to recognize, sense and understand energy patterns, as you put it, allows him to determine the source or nature of one's power. From there, he is able to leverage that understanding.


So how would he go from Superman being powered by solar radiation to thinking he has a particular weakness to red sun radiation or kryptonite?


Posted with Opera 9.80 on Windows 10
zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,104



    Quote:
    That's not sensing weakness, that's sensing the energy patterns of the characters.



    Quote:
    C'mon you can show us at least one instance of him actually doing it, right?


Sensing energy patterns is precisely what allows him to determine weaknesses of characters with powers related specifically to energy. Surfer doesn't sense any weakness like Karnak. The context is has always been with regards to characters like Superman and Gladiator and for you to act obtuse here about that context is disingenuous. I showed you Surfer sensing and exploiting Vision and Wonder Man's energy.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:

            Quote:

              Quote:
              Nice try misleading again, but this wasn't a fan voted fight like Wonder Woman and Lobo. It was DC and Marvel's decision.
            It was randomly decided who wins and who loses. Hence Aquaman defeating Namor who was superior to him in every way.
          Are you serious? You think DC and Marvel writers and editors flipped coins to determine the winners in the comic? You're losing all credibility here.
        Yes, that's exactly what happened. PAD and Marz said so later.
      You're just trying to gaslight the board now. Nowhere in that link does Peter David say anything about the fights being determined randomly!
    Yes, he did. He even says that he wanted Aquaman to win despite Namor being superior because he wanted to show Aquaman was a badass.


You just gave a reason Peter David had for determining a winner. That is the complete opposite of random! David also cited a way he thought Aquaman could win and that's what he ended up using.


    Quote:
    For every win there was one defeat for another character from the same company. In this case as Aquaman defeated Namor, Surfer defeated GL.


Yes, but the winner wasn't determined randomly. That is the point.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        He didn't try to though. If he had done so, it would be over for Surfer.
      So you think Green Lantern lost because he didn't try? Wow. Talk about making things up.
    The same writer had Kyle defeat Parallax with Surfer's power cosmic and Thanos with Oan power and normal Thanos beat Surfer to death under Marz.

    Suffice to say if Kyle had tried to drain Surfer, it would be over for him. Unless you think Surfer can defeat an amped Thanos when he has repeatedly failed to defeat a normal Thanos.


First, those fights all occurred under different circumstances that were not directly applicable to the others. Second, A > B and B > C so A > C logic doesn't always work for fights. Third, none of that is evidence showing that Kyle purposely was not trying against Surfer, a claim you have not backed up one iota.




Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 1,072



    Quote:

      Quote:
      That's not sensing weakness, that's sensing the energy patterns of the characters.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        C'mon you can show us at least one instance of him actually doing it, right?



    Quote:
    Sensing energy patterns is precisely what allows him to determine weaknesses of characters with powers related specifically to energy. Surfer doesn't sense any weakness like Karnak. The context is has always been with regards to characters like Superman and Gladiator and for you to act obtuse here about that context is disingenuous. I showed you Surfer sensing and exploiting Vision and Wonder Man's energy.


Yes, energy manipulation is his forte and he did that. Using kryptonite or red sun is not energy manipulation, Superman does not shows these radiations when sensed by energy beings.

But glad you admitted that Surfer can't use weakness sensing.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:

            Quote:

              Quote:

                Quote:
                Nice try misleading again, but this wasn't a fan voted fight like Wonder Woman and Lobo. It was DC and Marvel's decision.
              It was randomly decided who wins and who loses. Hence Aquaman defeating Namor who was superior to him in every way.
            Are you serious? You think DC and Marvel writers and editors flipped coins to determine the winners in the comic? You're losing all credibility here.
          Yes, that's exactly what happened. PAD and Marz said so later.
        You're just trying to gaslight the board now. Nowhere in that link does Peter David say anything about the fights being determined randomly!
      Yes, he did. He even says that he wanted Aquaman to win despite Namor being superior because he wanted to show Aquaman was a badass.



    Quote:
    You just gave a reason Peter David had for determining a winner. That is the complete opposite of random! David also cited a way he thought Aquaman could win and that's what he ended up using.


That is as random as anything. Aquaman did not win because he was stronger or anything. He won because the writer wanted so.

Next issue even showed that Namor was koed when we know that is a huge low showing for him.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      For every win there was one defeat for another character from the same company. In this case as Aquaman defeated Namor, Surfer defeated GL.



    Quote:
    Yes, but the winner wasn't determined randomly. That is the point.


Yes, it was.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          He didn't try to though. If he had done so, it would be over for Surfer.
        So you think Green Lantern lost because he didn't try? Wow. Talk about making things up.
      The same writer had Kyle defeat Parallax with Surfer's power cosmic and Thanos with Oan power and normal Thanos beat Surfer to death under Marz.



      Quote:
      Suffice to say if Kyle had tried to drain Surfer, it would be over for him. Unless you think Surfer can defeat an amped Thanos when he has repeatedly failed to defeat a normal Thanos.



    Quote:
    First, those fights all occurred under different circumstances that were not directly applicable to the others. Second, A > B and B > C so A > C logic doesn't always work for fights. Third, none of that is evidence showing that Kyle purposely was not trying against Surfer, a claim you have not backed up one iota.


These are done under one writer. I didn't say Kyle wasn't trying to win, he didn't use energy draining. It's called inexperience and it cost him. He even lost to Kalibak in physical combat under the same writer.

But you didn't answer my question, can Surfer do this?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132594/3490784-gl+%26+ss+ua+-+0045.jpg


Posted with Opera 9.80 on Windows 7
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