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Poltargyst


Member Since: Sat Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 3,098


If one were to measure the strength of Buffy Summers on Marvel's RPG scale, what would it be? Remarkable? Incredible?

I haven't read any of the comics, so I'm just going by the TV show, but the greatest strength feat of hers I can think of is when Dark Willow was coming to kill Jonathan and Andrew who were being held in jail. When Willow arrives, she sees the bars of the cell have been pulled apart wide enough for the guys to escape. We don't see it happen, but Willow says "Buffy", so we know it was her. What Marvel or DC characters does Buffy compare to in strength?

And for that matter, how strong is Angel? We know that slayers are stronger than vampires. Angel has acknowledged that Buffy is stronger than he is. I can't think of any strength feats for him other than being able to trade blows with Buffy, so their strengths can't be too different. Who might he compare to in Marvel or DC?


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Bk Ray

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Buffy probably has remarkable endurance. Angel maybe has incredible.





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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,594




    Quote:
    If one were to measure the strength of Buffy Summers on Marvel's RPG scale, what would it be? Remarkable? Incredible?





    Quote:
    I haven't read any of the comics, so I'm just going by the TV show, but the greatest strength feat of hers I can think of is when Dark Willow was coming to kill Jonathan and Andrew who were being held in jail. When Willow arrives, she sees the bars of the cell have been pulled apart wide enough for the guys to escape. We don't see it happen, but Willow says "Buffy", so we know it was her. What Marvel or DC characters does Buffy compare to in strength?


Weaker than strongman type characters but stronger than peak normal people like Batman or slightly augmented like Captain America. So Spider-Manish level strength? Is that a lazy answer? Everyone's going to say Spider-Man. I'd say someone like Moonstone is the right level for Buffy. Super strong but nowhere near Hulk, Superman, Thor etc.



    Quote:
    And for that matter, how strong is Angel? We know that slayers are stronger than vampires. Angel has acknowledged that Buffy is stronger than he is. I can't think of any strength feats for him other than being able to trade blows with Buffy, so their strengths can't be too different. Who might he compare to in Marvel or DC?


Triathlon? I'm just thinking Buffyverse vampires are a few ticks above humans with speed and strength. They're demon-lite.

A vampire is stronger than an average human but isn't cut out to take on a moderately powered DC or Marvel character IMO. So Triathlon. He's got the power of 3 people but that's about it I think.



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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,727




    Quote:
    If one were to measure the strength of Buffy Summers on Marvel's RPG scale, what would it be? Remarkable? Incredible?


Buffy is somewhere in between movie Captain America and his comic book self. Above the 800 lbs (Peak human) mark but below 2,000 lbs. In some episodes, her strength was even below that in some of her low showings.


    Quote:
    I haven't read any of the comics, so I'm just going by the TV show, but the greatest strength feat of hers I can think of is when Dark Willow was coming to kill Jonathan and Andrew who were being held in jail. When Willow arrives, she sees the bars of the cell have been pulled apart wide enough for the guys to escape. We don't see it happen, but Willow says "Buffy", so we know it was her. What Marvel or DC characters does Buffy compare to in strength?


Buffy is a good comparison to comics Captain America more than any other character. And she's comparable to a slightly weaker version of DC's Deathstroke.


    Quote:
    And for that matter, how strong is Angel? We know that slayers are stronger than vampires. Angel has acknowledged that Buffy is stronger than he is. I can't think of any strength feats for him other than being able to trade blows with Buffy, so their strengths can't be too different. Who might he compare to in Marvel or DC?


It was never clarified precisely how strong Angel was. I'd say at least 5-10% weaker than Buffy.





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 643


We know vamps are stronger than humans, at least on average.... though I don't think all of them are peak human based on performance against Scoobies....but maybe peak for their body size and musculature....And older more elite vampires in the Cap to 1 ton range

We also know Buffy could​ easily lift the troll hammer one handed and Spike couldn't lift it without maximum effort. She could bend the bars on jail cells as well. Her strength wasn't played up a lot, likely do to budget constraints, but I'd put her in the Beast ballpark.


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Rehzon


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I remember Angel commenting on her strength after Spike suggested both of them dragging her away from The Immortal. \:\)



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,594




    Quote:
    We know vamps are stronger than humans, at least on average.... though I don't think all of them are peak human based on performance against Scoobies....but maybe peak for their body size and musculature....And older more elite vampires in the Cap to 1 ton range


Buffy > vampires > humans

She might not be able to beat up Thor or Hulk but she just has to be stronger than Cap. He's a human at the peak of human ability...so ok maybe he can match a weak vampire's strength...but she should still be way stronger than that. She's got to be past a human at the top of his game and into genuine super human territory or the whole mythology falls apart IMO.



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,594




    Quote:

    I remember Angel commenting on her strength after Spike suggested both of them dragging her away from The Immortal. \:\)


I'm pretty sure we've seen her knock down steel doors, punch through concrete and lift steel girders. She's not the Captain America level Knight says she is IMO.



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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 643


Later in the series, Xander could take down a 'normal' Vampire.....so if they are Cap level.....it doesn't hold up either.

I'd say that a 150lb guy becomes a vamp, he becomes equivalent to a world class lifter at 150 lbs.... already strong guys maybe a bit more. Would give them a substantial but not insurmountable advantage over humans. Cap is as strong as a human of any size can be, so stronger than most younger vamps, and almost as strong as the strongest.

Buffy is substantially stronger than relatively old vamps.... Beast was usually in the 5 ton range


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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,727



Dude, she's struggled to break metal chains on more than one occasion. Chains. And one time a metal chandelier fell on her and it took an entire episode just to get it off of her. She is no where near Beast's strength level. He can lift at least 10 tons and Buffy is no where near that.





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,727



Sorry, but even Comic Cap has better strength feats than Buffy.





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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Bk Ray

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,869




    Quote:

    Dude, she's struggled to break metal chains on more than one occasion. Chains. And one time a metal chandelier fell on her and it took an entire episode just to get it off of her. She is no where near Beast's strength level. He can lift at least 10 tons and Buffy is no where near that.


Beast is below Spiderman and I believe around class 5 level.

I would estimate Buffy to be class 1 to 2 level, so 'classic' Beast level.

In 1 episode Riley said she was 'Spiderman' level strong, which would be a nod from Whedon. Buffy could fling 200lb guys relatively effortlessly.

Even elite vampires are seen as potentially having trouble with high end streets, Gunn was able to be physically useful with Angel for a lifting feat.

However, it is difficult to match the conceptional level. Riley had low level superhuman strength, but would be easily out-feated by Cap, Batman and Daredevil.

Conceptually, he would probably be seen as Cap level and whilst Buffy is one step up again, she is nowhere near the Spiderman class.






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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,727




    Quote:
    I would estimate Buffy to be class 1 to 2 level, so 'classic' Beast level.


Classic Beast level was 1 ton lifting strength. That's about MCU Cap level or at least Steve is close to that considering his feats.

But on average (probably budget constraints) Buffy simply didn't always display even this level of strength. She was typically portrayed as about 25% weaker than that based on her average, day-to-day, feats. Sure, she has some high end feats, but she has some really low showings too (like with that chandelier falling on her and taking an entire episode to move it off), struggling to break regular chains, etc.

So, again, Buffy simply isn't as strong as some of you are billing her to be.





It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong. But it's evident that people never will because they would rather accuse others of cherry picking feats, when they don't, and being 'morally superior' when they aren't. I guess being honest and as fair as possible only opens one up to being the target of childish accusations and fault finding by those who insist on acting petty and childish. What happened to a good debate between two civil, mature, adults?
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Ko


Member Since: Wed Sep 28, 2011
Posts: 932


Most of the time she's around Red Skull level, when her confidence drops she gets to around Daredevil Strength. When her confidence is high , usually portrayed as her being focussed, she can get up there to TV Incredible Hulk level.




'If the criteria for being called a god is to be stronger than Hulk can be, than the number of gods in Marvel just dropped to possibly zero'. WBW
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Poltargyst


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Bk Ray

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    Quote:


      Quote:
      I would estimate Buffy to be class 1 to 2 level, so 'classic' Beast level.



    Quote:
    Classic Beast level was 1 ton lifting strength. That's about MCU Cap level or at least Steve is close to that considering his feats.



    Quote:
    But on average (probably budget constraints) Buffy simply didn't always display even this level of strength. She was typically portrayed as about 25% weaker than that based on her average, day-to-day, feats. Sure, she has some high end feats, but she has some really low showings too (like with that chandelier falling on her and taking an entire episode to move it off), struggling to break regular chains, etc.



    Quote:
    So, again, Buffy simply isn't as strong as some of you are billing her to be.


Glory survived a hit from a wrecking ball and surviving a building implode on it self (caused by he stamping her feet having a tantrum.

Buffy was able to physically knock her around.

Spike who very barely was able to lift the Troll's hammar and is around peak human strength at worst had Buffy lift the hammar with one arm and she used it without any hindrance.

IIRC she also lifted a gate, where dozens have attempted and has bent steel rifle barrels with ease.

PS - Non hairy McCoy was around class 1, original hairy edition got a slight upgrade and was class 2.





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Reverend Meteor


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    Quote:

    Sorry, but even Comic Cap has better strength feats than Buffy.


Can he knock down a building by having sex with Spike? I think not!



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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 643


Buffy is likely somewhere in that ballpark.

We KNOW that Vampires are generally stronger than humans, but we also know that humans can fight them off, at least younger, more normal vampires.

We also know that the 'super soldier' types could beat multiple normal vamps, but were probably not going to individually beat the Angel's of the Buffyverse...

So yeah, I think being a vampire gives you a boost, but normal joe schmoe doesn't just become a Cap peer by becoming a vampire...but I think Angel and the other elite vamps probably get into the Cap ballpark, or slightly above, maybe as high as the 1 ton level (but no more than that)

As to Buffy's strength, she's more than 2 X as strong as the Angel and Spike types, as evidenced by the troll hammer incident as well as some of the comments from Angel et. al.

Some Angel feats:

Angel lifts a security gate in a museum that went on lock down....a Conan like feat IMO

Kicks this punching bag so hard that the chain snaps, and it flies to the other side of the room....peak human type showing at least

Angel rips out a Iron grate in the sewers....no indication it was rusted through, so another decent feat.


Slams guys with enough force to shatter the concrete wall....probably greater than peak human

Smashes a solid stone sculpture to pieces with his fist....at least peak human

Angel punches through 6 inches of Plexy Glass with no trouble....greater than peak human

Some Buffy feats

Buffy smashes through a huge chunk of brick wall.

2) Buffy slams this demons head so hard into the mooring post, it splinters to pieces! That is thick as a telephone pole.

3) Buffy jumps up fire escapes with a person in one hand.

4) Faith showing her Slayer strength by smashing through concrete while being heavily injured.

5) Buffy smashes Demon through a brick wall.

6) Buffy kicks another Slayer 50 feet away.

7) Buffy smashes a stone statue with a kick.

8) Buffy bends jail cell bars to get out the nerds when Willow was
coming for them

9) troll hammer lifting

10) in the episode Anne, she lifts a huge gate that the others couldn't budge...hard to quantify

11) she lifted a steel girder easily on a construction site, while two larger men struggled to carry one

for durability
Another Slayer with the Slayer powers is hit by a Semi Truck. No major Damage, just a headache afterwards.

All in all, it varied, but vampires ranged from very strong normal humans to probably up to about 1 ton (maybe a little more), and Buffy was probably somewhere in the 1-5 ton range, but hard to say where in that range.


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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 643


to Buffy's IMO, but he has a lot more showings and thus a lot more feats. I consider Cap in general to be a 1 tonner, but I think Buffy may be stronger than that...how much I'm not sure, but certainly not over 5, and likely not quite to that level.




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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 643


a heavy motorcycle overhead, a large fallen tree overhead, ripped the arm off of a super durable robot, carried a large telephone pole with a transformer attached, has broken steel doors in similar manner to Buffy, pulled down a helicopter, etc.

Buffy has more feats breaking through brick walls and such, and many of Cap's 'feats' are with the shield, but he has some that are in the same ballpark as hers, though his are a lower percentage of total showings IMO...

I'd put Buffy as stronger, and Cap about on par with Angel, and how much stronger Buffy is is hard to say...


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Bk Ray

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    Quote:
    a heavy motorcycle overhead, a large fallen tree overhead, ripped the arm off of a super durable robot, carried a large telephone pole with a transformer attached, has broken steel doors in similar manner to Buffy, pulled down a helicopter, etc.



    Quote:
    Buffy has more feats breaking through brick walls and such, and many of Cap's 'feats' are with the shield, but he has some that are in the same ballpark as hers, though his are a lower percentage of total showings IMO...



    Quote:
    I'd put Buffy as stronger, and Cap about on par with Angel, and how much stronger Buffy is is hard to say...


I think Cap is a legitimate Class 1 nowadays. I would say Buffy is around that ballpark.

Angelus and Spike around the 800 to 1,000lb rate. Around 4 to 5 times thier bodyweight. Max from Dark Angel as well, albeit she weighs a lot less, so about 600lbs.

I would place Connor and Groosalugg somewhere in between the above and below, slightly higher than Drusilla and Darla.

Average 'tough' or 'body builder' type vamp - around 600lb (but they don't have Max's speed or training.

Young to average vampire, around 400lb.







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Ko


Member Since: Wed Sep 28, 2011
Posts: 932






'If the criteria for being called a god is to be stronger than Hulk can be, than the number of gods in Marvel just dropped to possibly zero'. WBW
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Bk Ray

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He was able to use his body weight against it. It was back around when he was going to be a presidential nominee.





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Poltargyst


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Poltargyst


Member Since: Sat Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 3,098


I forgot about her lifting the steel girder at the construction site. That would weigh hundreds of pounds itself, and she casually lifted it like it was nothing.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 18,188


She is weaker than Dracula, correct?


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