Fantastic Four: TWGCM >> View Thread

Author
Richard


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,602



1. Darla Deering
I feel bad putting her first.... I'd feel bad if I didn't.

2. She-Hulk
Probably the real number one, out of all the many replacement members, she's the one who "took" the most. I guess we also ought to discuss which member is the best to BE replaced. I wouldn't have thought it was Ben, but this worked.

3. Ms. Marvel
I don't feel that the Fantastic Four is the kind of comic where the subject of rape should really be featured, not even that time when Ben got pushed into a volcano in the Lee-Kirby run. Nevertheless, despite some questionable "not for the kids" content, she brought some drama to proceedings.

4. Medusa
Could be higher. I always felt they were reaching too much with dialogue like "Medusa's invincible with her amazing power of moving ginger hair", but she worked okay within the team. I've got a lot of nostalgic love for the period, and she showed that her efforts with a vase made Ben's Sunday best look weak.

5. Crystal
The opposite to her sister, in that you had someone so highly powered that she could conceivably take out the entire team, but they played it down. I was always surprised how little she was allowed to do in the Lee-Kirby run, and it was more Englehart where she came into her own.

6. Ant Man
Mainly for his run in that great spin-off title, which oozed goodness. Not so much for his run in the title proper, which wasn't much fun at all, and he seemed to think Johnny was after his underage daughter. Ick.

7. Spider-Man
It says a lot for how much impact Spider-Man had that he was in the book and I completely forgot. It goes back somewhat to what I was saying earlier, about which team member gets replaced. Ben and Spidey has never really worked amazingly well (it's OKAY, but it's two wisecrackers together, they need a straight man) and Johnny was the one he always had the connection with. But Johnny was the one he replaced. Worse, Spidey was serious in the run, they were fighting in locations where his powers didn't really get used to good effect, and the team were mourning the death of Johnny so he was like an outsider. All in all, not a good fit... but he COULD have been.

7. Black Panther
AS with Spidey, then with some of these, it's not the character, it's how they're used. BP was a great ally of the group, but when he was a member it didn't really "click". And I still don't get how he can hold the Silver Surfer in an unbreakable headlock.

8. Luke Cage
I've got a lot of love for "Sweet Christmas!", though he didn't really do much when he was in the title.

9. Nova
She didn't really seem like a developed character to me, more just someone Bryne was exiting out of the book.

10. Storm
Anyone even remember Storm being in it? She had nothing to do, did she?



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Jim Mc


Member Since: Sun Jan 20, 2013
Posts: 1,028



    Quote:

    1. Darla Deering
    I feel bad putting her first.... I'd feel bad if I didn't.


I will rank them sometime later but I must ask: why does she take your top spot?



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Richard


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,602




    Quote:

      Quote:

      1. Darla Deering
      I feel bad putting her first.... I'd feel bad if I didn't.



    Quote:
    I will rank them sometime later but I must ask: why does she take your top spot?


I guess I shouldn't even count her as she's never been in the real FF as such, with three real FF members, but I just found that spin-off title great fun.



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Count Dante


Location: Ad Pages in Old Comics
Member Since: Wed Aug 21, 2013
Posts: 3,215


1. Spider-Man - a swiss army knife, covering almost all FF roles except for Sue
2. Crystal - An early Sue sub - nice powers to compliment the group.
3. Luke Cage - early Ben sub. Not strong enough, but way more interesting than She-Hulk IMO
4. Medusa - extension of the Inhuman alliance
5. Ant Man - decent Reed Sub
6. Blank Panther - Batman joins the FF to sub for Reed
7. Darla Deering - entertaining but only really worked for me with Alred and Fraction's FF. An unconventional Ben sub. But it was different.
8. She-Hulk - boring Hulk spin-off. Unoriginal feminization of the the Hulk IMO.
9. Nova, Storm, Ms. Marvel - don't really care - boring!






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Jim Mc


Member Since: Sun Jan 20, 2013
Posts: 1,028


I found it very entertaining for a bit then it went off course. I did enjoy Ant-Man shoving a tree branch down Doom's throat.


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Jim Mc


Member Since: Sun Jan 20, 2013
Posts: 1,028


Below is my list. It may include a few characters who were not official replacement members but hung around the team long enough so they could be considered for "honorary" status.

1. Crystal: more for her first time around than her second. Her second stint didn't live up to its potential as Englehart became Harkness.
2. She-Hulk: probably the most effective all around
3. Ms. Marvel: I just loved her crazy
4. Thundra: I always liked the character and wish she had hung around longer in the FF title.
5. Medusa: Again, more for her first stint than her second on the FF title.
6. Tigra: like Thundra, I enjoyed her jumping around flirting with Ben.
7. Spider-man: always felt like a guest star and not a full-fledged FF alternate.
8. Nova: she was useful in developing Johnny's character
9. Ant-Man: I like Scott Lang. He shoved a tree branch down Doom's throat.
10. Darla Deering: Never warmed up to the character and her Thing ring
11. Luke Cage: He was really only in the title a short bit and at this time was a very one-dimensional character.
12. Black Panther: love the character, knew McDuffie could write him well but his presence on the team was stop gap.
13. Impossible Man: I think he's had enough appearances helping the team out to qualify as an honary member.
14. Namorita: easy to forget about because she didn't do much.
15. Kristoff: I recall him liking Lang's daughter. Did he get pissed at Doom when he killed her?
16. Storm: useless. I remember her just smiling a lot
17. Namor: I think he was a fill in member after Reed died. I hate him in the FF. He's always more enjoyable apart from the team.
18: Any Claremont created character like Caledonia or Bounty
19. Doom: Uncle Doom is last and least





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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:

    1. Darla Deering
    I feel bad putting her first.... I'd feel bad if I didn't.


Boo!


    Quote:
    2. She-Hulk
    Probably the real number one, out of all the many replacement members, she's the one who "took" the most. I guess we also ought to discuss which member is the best to BE replaced. I wouldn't have thought it was Ben, but this worked.


Yeah she's the most Fantastical fifth member out of all the Fantastic Four


    Quote:
    3. Ms. Marvel
    I don't feel that the Fantastic Four is the kind of comic where the subject of rape should really be featured, not even that time when Ben got pushed into a volcano in the Lee-Kirby run. Nevertheless, despite some questionable "not for the kids" content, she brought some drama to proceedings.


I don't mind rape being brought up. I enjoyed the Sue miscarriage plot. I don't mind social issues. But Englehart doesn't know how to write them.

That said...I liked Sharon. I thought she was a horrible representation of women as all Englehart written characters are (Mantis, Crystal, Mockingbird etc) but I liked what she represented for Ben. Ben became the level headed one to mentor unstable Shary. I loved that side of him when he was leader.


    Quote:
    4. Medusa
    Could be higher. I always felt they were reaching too much with dialogue like "Medusa's invincible with her amazing power of moving ginger hair", but she worked okay within the team. I've got a lot of nostalgic love for the period, and she showed that her efforts with a vase made Ben's Sunday best look weak.


The only time I liked Medusa was when she became a real b*tch around the time of War of Kings. I always thought she was stuck up but I liked it better when she leaned into it instead being snooty while also pretending to be a nice caring person. I'd rather her be a diva than be fake is what I'm saying.


    Quote:
    5. Crystal
    The opposite to her sister, in that you had someone so highly powered that she could conceivably take out the entire team, but they played it down. I was always surprised how little she was allowed to do in the Lee-Kirby run, and it was more Englehart where she came into her own.


I've never been overly fond of either sister. Englehart turned her into a tramp IMO. As bad as the run is to me she didn't really come into her own until Bob Harras's Avengers run.


    Quote:
    6. Ant Man
    Mainly for his run in that great spin-off title, which oozed goodness. Not so much for his run in the title proper, which wasn't much fun at all, and he seemed to think Johnny was after his underage daughter. Ick.


DeFalco's run was horrible. But I liked Ant Man a lot. One of the few bright spots.


    Quote:
    7. Spider-Man
    It says a lot for how much impact Spider-Man had that he was in the book and I completely forgot. It goes back somewhat to what I was saying earlier, about which team member gets replaced. Ben and Spidey has never really worked amazingly well (it's OKAY, but it's two wisecrackers together, they need a straight man) and Johnny was the one he always had the connection with. But Johnny was the one he replaced. Worse, Spidey was serious in the run, they were fighting in locations where his powers didn't really get used to good effect, and the team were mourning the death of Johnny so he was like an outsider. All in all, not a good fit... but he COULD have been.


I don't like Spider-Man in the Fantastic Four. Or the Avengers. Or the X-Men.

Peter shouldn't be on a team.


    Quote:
    7. Black Panther
    AS with Spidey, then with some of these, it's not the character, it's how they're used. BP was a great ally of the group, but when he was a member it didn't really "click". And I still don't get how he can hold the Silver Surfer in an unbreakable headlock.


I'd like to see the devious Priest version lead the team. Or a Fantastic Four/Force related team.

Priest was the only one who made T'Challa seem devious. I liked that version.



    Quote:
    8. Luke Cage
    I've got a lot of love for "Sweet Christmas!", though he didn't really do much when he was in the title.




    Quote:
    9. Nova
    She didn't really seem like a developed character to me, more just someone Bryne was exiting out of the book.


Ugh and the way he got rid of her. She willingly chose to help slaughter billions of lifeforms so she could experience the wonders of space. What a word that rhymes with bunt.


    Quote:
    10. Storm
    Anyone even remember Storm being in it? She had nothing to do, did she?


Useless.








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Richard


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,602



I wouldn't have said Nova was a runt.



    Quote:
    I don't like Spider-Man in the Fantastic Four. Or the Avengers. Or the X-Men.



    Quote:
    Peter shouldn't be on a team.


In terms of the FF then - if only for a short time - I wouldn't mind it, as it was mooted right from the outset. His association with the FF goes back decades, and he's more associated with them than other teams.

But the version of Spider-Man that pitched up to join them in a Spidey back-up strip, slapping them around and asking them for $$$ is a big difference to the Spider-Man that showed up as Johnny's replacement.



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:

    I wouldn't have said Nova was a runt.


Oh she was a total...runt. She was willing to murder billions to fulfill her own wanderlust. Complete runt. Runtiest runt ever.

Who does that?



    Quote:


      Quote:
      I don't like Spider-Man in the Fantastic Four. Or the Avengers. Or the X-Men.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Peter shouldn't be on a team.



    Quote:
    In terms of the FF then - if only for a short time - I wouldn't mind it, as it was mooted right from the outset. His association with the FF goes back decades, and he's more associated with them than other teams.


He can be friends without being a member IMO.


    Quote:
    But the version of Spider-Man that pitched up to join them in a Spidey back-up strip, slapping them around and asking them for $$$ is a big difference to the Spider-Man that showed up as Johnny's replacement.








Posted with Mozilla Firefox 54.0 on Windows 7
Richard


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,602




    Quote:
    Oh she was a total...runt. She was willing to murder billions to fulfill her own wanderlust. Complete runt. Runtiest runt ever.


She was, it was my silly joke. \:\)

I wouldn't say she was a punt though.



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