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CyberCoyote-=^..^-= 

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I thought I got it, but I just don't.

Everyone other than the Illuminati and their passengers died prior to Battle World?

So Reed was really Reed, but the rest of the 4 and his family died? Or were those really Frank and Val?

Then when Reed won he.. RECREATED everyone? Who are the Sue and kids with him? Originals? New ones?

Ben, Johnny and everyone else is a recreation? Doom is Doom or is he NuDoom?

If Reed and Sue and the kids came back into the comics, would they be super Cosmic Creationists or would they be another recreation of themselves?

Is there a straight answer or is it all as confusing as it looks from the surface?




Pull List: Fantastic Four-Marvel 2 In 1-Savage Dragon-Titans-Teen Titans-Copperhead-The Terrifics-X-Men Blue/Gold(trade)-Immortal Hulk-Amazing Spider-Man-Capt America-Dr Strange-Iron Man-Champions
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Jim Mc


Member Since: Sun Jan 20, 2013
Posts: 972




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Richard


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,514



It's the kind of thing that makes you nostalgic for the Clone Saga.



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CyberCoyote-=^..^-= 

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Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,160


So, "It's Magic?" Kind of incomprehensible nonsense? Greeeeaaat.




Pull List: Fantastic Four-Marvel 2 In 1-Savage Dragon-Titans-Teen Titans-Copperhead-The Terrifics-X-Men Blue/Gold(trade)-Immortal Hulk-Amazing Spider-Man-Capt America-Dr Strange-Iron Man-Champions
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America's Captain 

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Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,968


We can only hope Black Guardian will see your post, for of all humans alive on this day, he and he alone has the power to unravel the threads.






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CyberCoyote-=^..^-= 

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Posts: 4,160


Well, if the writers can get through to just ONE reader then isn't it all worth while?

What books did the incursion stuff happen in? They are probably on Marvel Unlimited and I can try to comprehend it a bit.

And here I thought Superman Rebirth was confusing.




Pull List: Fantastic Four-Marvel 2 In 1-Savage Dragon-Titans-Teen Titans-Copperhead-The Terrifics-X-Men Blue/Gold(trade)-Immortal Hulk-Amazing Spider-Man-Capt America-Dr Strange-Iron Man-Champions
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CyberCoyote-=^..^-= 

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Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,160


So I reread SWars (Not Secret Invasion or Secret War or Secret Wars, Too or Secret Wars II or Secret Defenders or Secret Wars Journal or Secret Santa) and it looks like per Reed's last minute conversation with Sue that Owen secretly (MORE SECRETS!) saved everyone on the rafts and stashed them away somewhere.

I'm still so very confused on why they need to explore and document the new realities Frank's creating and Reed is using his omnipotence to toss into the sky, that's like saying "I'm baking a cake, when I'm done we'll have to discover what ingredients I used and how to cook it!". I mean, if they don't comprehend the process then that's pretty irresponsible creating all these places without knowing if it's a terrible, horrible idea/place.

And they just mention that Ben and John's stories aren't over yet, however it sure seems Dragon Man and all those kids' stories MUST be over because they're keeping them around.

I guess they were trying to play loose and easy so other writers could do what they wanted, but overall I gotta think that was the lamest reboot yet in the long run. But this conversation was probably old by late summer last year.




Pull List: Fantastic Four-Marvel 2 In 1-Savage Dragon-Titans-Teen Titans-Copperhead-The Terrifics-X-Men Blue/Gold(trade)-Immortal Hulk-Amazing Spider-Man-Capt America-Dr Strange-Iron Man-Champions
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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,821




    Quote:
    I thought I got it, but I just don't.



    Quote:
    Everyone other than the Illuminati and their passengers died prior to Battle World?



    Quote:
    So Reed was really Reed, but the rest of the 4 and his family died? Or were those really Frank and Val?



    Quote:
    Then when Reed won he.. RECREATED everyone? Who are the Sue and kids with him? Originals? New ones?



    Quote:
    Ben, Johnny and everyone else is a recreation? Doom is Doom or is he NuDoom?



    Quote:
    If Reed and Sue and the kids came back into the comics, would they be super Cosmic Creationists or would they be another recreation of themselves?



    Quote:
    Is there a straight answer or is it all as confusing as it looks from the surface?


Hickman's New Avengers and to a lesser extent Avengers were where the bulk of the Incursions stories started and it sort of made sense until right before Secret Wars where it just stopped making sense.

A lot of the story threads he built up in those 2 books just sort of got dropped and weren't resolved in Secret Wars.

Like how could Doom be Rabum Alal? We were told that Rabum Alal's reality stopped existing and that what was what caused the breakdown in the multiverse. The multiverse broke down because a timeline disappeared leaving other realities bumping into each other.

What was Black Swan's goal. They implied she wanted to clone her relatives from another earth but I don't think that went anywhere and when that explanation was given it seemed out of left field.

What was Pod's connection to the incursions?

How were the Zebra people, the Gardners, Ex Nihlo, Abyss, the White Event, Captain Universe, Starbrand, Nightmask, Hickman's Hyperion, the teleporter Manifolds etc connected to the incursions. Some stuff like the Mapmakers, the Black Priests, the Ivory Kings, the Black Swans and Rabum Alal were sort of explained (badly) but a lot wasn't IMO. The Gardeners in particular seemed important to the story at the beginning and meant nothing by the end.


How could Doom beat the Beyonders? They were implied to be stronger than the Living Tribunal. They killed him after all.





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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,821




    Quote:
    So I reread SWars (Not Secret Invasion or Secret War or Secret Wars, Too or Secret Wars II or Secret Defenders or Secret Wars Journal or Secret Santa) and it looks like per Reed's last minute conversation with Sue that Owen secretly (MORE SECRETS!) saved everyone on the rafts and stashed them away somewhere.



    Quote:
    I'm still so very confused on why they need to explore and document the new realities Frank's creating and Reed is using his omnipotence to toss into the sky, that's like saying "I'm baking a cake, when I'm done we'll have to discover what ingredients I used and how to cook it!". I mean, if they don't comprehend the process then that's pretty irresponsible creating all these places without knowing if it's a terrible, horrible idea/place.


I'm thinking Reed (rightly or wrongly) sees this all as an extended family vacation not a sacred duty he's been tasked with.

These new universes are manifested from Franklin's dreams so yeah they really aren't 100% sure what type of worlds they will evolve into.

(and yes it's all very very stupid)



    Quote:
    And they just mention that Ben and John's stories aren't over yet, however it sure seems Dragon Man and all those kids' stories MUST be over because they're keeping them around.


Well those kids will probably get a better education mapping the multiverse than an American public school system education...


    Quote:
    I guess they were trying to play loose and easy so other writers could do what they wanted, but overall I gotta think that was the lamest reboot yet in the long run. But this conversation was probably old by late summer last year.


Secret Wars is IMO the worst story in the history of fiction. It was bad. Real bad.



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CyberCoyote-=^..^-= 

Moderator

Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,160





    Quote:
    These new universes are manifested from Franklin's dreams so yeah they really aren't 100% sure what type of worlds they will evolve into.


Wow, so we could have places as awesome as Jimmy Olsen World.


    Quote:
    (and yes it's all very very stupid)


I'm not arguing, but I bet there's folks who think it's just too high brow and intellectual for us to comprehend.



    Quote:
    Well those kids will probably get a better education mapping the multiverse than an American public school system education...


Yes, but will they be properly prepared for whatever state standardized testing is used to decide how much funding the school gets next year?!?


    Quote:
    Secret Wars is IMO the worst story in the history of fiction. It was bad. Real bad.


Aw.. What I saw was just great(sarcasm). Like, did you know the Infinity Gauntlet can be used to punch people and become a giant Panther? To Infinity and Beyond!






Pull List: Fantastic Four-Marvel 2 In 1-Savage Dragon-Titans-Teen Titans-Copperhead-The Terrifics-X-Men Blue/Gold(trade)-Immortal Hulk-Amazing Spider-Man-Capt America-Dr Strange-Iron Man-Champions
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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,821




    Quote:

      Quote:
      These new universes are manifested from Franklin's dreams so yeah they really aren't 100% sure what type of worlds they will evolve into.



    Quote:
    Wow, so we could have places as awesome as Jimmy Olsen World.


Reed, Jimmy and Plastic Man join the Elastic Four


    Quote:

      Quote:
      (and yes it's all very very stupid)



    Quote:
    I'm not arguing, but I bet there's folks who think it's just too high brow and intellectual for us to comprehend.


The same people told me I didn't get the HBO show The Leftovers.


    Quote:


      Quote:
      Well those kids will probably get a better education mapping the multiverse than an American public school system education...



    Quote:
    Yes, but will they be properly prepared for whatever state standardized testing is used to decide how much funding the school gets next year?!?


It's the multiverse. That Schrodinger's box sometimes give out federally mandated school funding and sometimes not.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Secret Wars is IMO the worst story in the history of fiction. It was bad. Real bad.



    Quote:
    Aw.. What I saw was just great(sarcasm). Like, did you know the Infinity Gauntlet can be used to punch people and become a giant Panther? To Infinity and Beyond!


Marvel has gotten so bad...



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dmhaight

I'd like to see Marvel publish a novelization of this story

Member Since: Wed Mar 20, 2013
Posts: 54


I suspect Hickman wouldn't be interested in such a thing, but if a good writer was given the opportunity to expand on this story in the form of a novelization where facets of the whole that were glossed over in the pages of the comic books could be fleshed out, i think it would be a great cap to the event which imo is sorely needed.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,821




    Quote:
    Well, if the writers can get through to just ONE reader then isn't it all worth while?


I have to believe that one reader exists in another timeline. The story we got in our timeline didn't make sense..


    Quote:
    What books did the incursion stuff happen in? They are probably on Marvel Unlimited and I can try to comprehend it a bit.



    Quote:
    And here I thought Superman Rebirth was confusing.






Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 7

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