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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 544


I haven't really read the issue where she died, but I'm not sure if bringing her back was really necessary. She's a human character, and characters like that usually stay dead (Think of Gwen Stacy, Karen Page, etc.), so I say that she should have stayed dead. And didn't they turn her into Harpy or the Red She-Hulk after that? I also think that her coming back kind of diminishes the relationship and enmity between Bruce and Emil (The Abomination.). And Ross and Emil too, for that matter. The "Dear Betty." storyline in Hulk #24-#25 is the perfect example of the two truly having an arch-enemy relationship. Does anyone know if PAD intended for The Abomination to be her killer? I heard as much, but I'm not sure what he had planned. It certainly gave Emil a step-up. So, I would say that she should not have come back, but it seems that a lot of people weren't too happy with her dying the first place.


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TheMadderIGet


Member Since: Tue Jul 04, 2017
Posts: 39


I'm curious if anyone has the PAD answer. Would like to see what he said. I know in the last issue of his first run he had Rick Jones say there was a truth to be revealed about what happened to Betty.

I like the Red SheHulk series, more than her appearances in the main title. However, I'm of the strong belief there is only one Hulk. The others should never exist for long, and none should have the unique MPD issues Bruce has from his childhood abuse. Makes no sense for the other characters.


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Charlie 

Moderator

Location: Vermont
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,911


Should have come back. "Heart of the Monster" made it all worth it.

Sucks that Marvel decided to undo a terrific story with the very next issue, but luckily I stop caring about continuity when it gets bad.




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Cth


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 933


I think it would have been better if she had stayed dead.

Given what we know now, that editorial postscript shows who's really in charge these days when it comes to the book.

Storywise, aside from the Red She Hulk stuff (which I enjoyed, but others did not) there wasn't a lot of ways her staying would have made things fresh. We already know editorial prevented them from having a baby.

Her death would have given Bruce an opportunity to try and grieve, something he rarely does given his upbringing. It'd force him and Ross to deal with things, for better or worse. He could eventually move on, and hopefully they could have brought back Kate Waynesboro one day to shake up the book again.

The reveal that Betty was in stasis was about as an insult as PAD's Tempus Fugit was, IMO. The only real difference is the popularity of one versus the other. It's why I'm never a fan of those type reveals.

Anyways, yeah, wish she'd have remained dead, it was a poignant send off much like Jim Wilson which is rare for characters these days.



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,363




    Quote:
    I haven't really read the issue where she died, but I'm not sure if bringing her back was really necessary. She's a human character, and characters like that usually stay dead (Think of Gwen Stacy, Karen Page, etc.), so I say that she should have stayed dead. And didn't they turn her into Harpy or the Red She-Hulk after that? I also think that her coming back kind of diminishes the relationship and enmity between Bruce and Emil (The Abomination.). And Ross and Emil too, for that matter. The "Dear Betty." storyline in Hulk #24-#25 is the perfect example of the two truly having an arch-enemy relationship. Does anyone know if PAD intended for The Abomination to be her killer? I heard as much, but I'm not sure what he had planned. It certainly gave Emil a step-up. So, I would say that she should not have come back, but it seems that a lot of people weren't too happy with her dying the first place.


Should have come back. My policy is usually "If Stan Lee or Jack Kirby created them it's not some other writers place to kill them (for good...if it's a death fake out I don't mind)".

Then my next policy usually is "if you didn't create the character don't kill the character off" except I make exceptions for that rule when someone I don't like dies.




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Butthead1


Member Since: Fri Jul 28, 2017
Posts: 38


I was never happy that Betty was killed off to begin with. I felt it was such bad timing when Banner and Hulk were right on the verge of working for the Military if I remember correctly. That could have been an interesting story. Right after Betty died and PAD left the book went right down the toilet with horrible story lines for awhile. Killing Betty was probably the worst thing PAD did besides The Savage Banner. I am glad she was brought back and I really enjoyed the Red She Hulk. I know she was brought back at first by Jones. That was the only good thing Jones did.


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Butthead1


Member Since: Fri Jul 28, 2017
Posts: 38


I enjoyed The Red She Hulk also. The outstanding art work made it a pleasure to read. It was just a well written and well drawn book IMO. With this new Planet Hulk story coming up and Banner possibly being brought back to life there I would not be surprised if Caiera also is brought back at some point.


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Gamma Ra


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,741




    Quote:
    Should have come back. "Heart of the Monster" made it all worth it.


I loved it.


    Quote:
    Sucks that Marvel decided to undo a terrific story with the very next issue, but luckily I stop caring about continuity when it gets bad.


This is the problem I have with the Hulk and Marvel Comics in general, but it's more prevalent with the Hulk. There is absolutely no continuity in this Marvel "Universe". From one writer to the next, there's no organic flow. Changes are randomly done. If Marvel is allowing such loose continuity, they are better off doing limited series featuring a character, rather than trying to worry about appeasing fans with a numbering system. It's frustrating to read stories that don't line up and add up.

Seriously, how hard is it to keep continuity? Soap operas did it and they have just as much story content than almost any comic book character.





He's?!? A Man-like MONSTER...an Elemental Force! He's?!? Indestructible! That's why you don't comprehend him!! And because he IS...Indestructible...the Battle Board will not tolerate him nor his INCREDIBLE abilities!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Surge - the WORLDBREAKER!!!
Gamma Ra the Assassin quotes Stan Lee - "The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got...I assume at some point he'll get worn out, but NEVER the Hulk." Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine Oct 2006 issue - Proceeding Message from the CHURCH OF HULK!!!
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Charlie 

Moderator

Location: Vermont
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,911



    Quote:
    Seriously, how hard is it to keep continuity? Soap operas did it and they have just as much story content than almost any comic book character.


I think it's a volume problem. I don't know how many books Marvel puts out, but there are a lot of things going on in the universe every month. Moreover, while Marvel had a distinct tone across all its books in the 60s through the 80s, each writer nowadays has their own unique style and take on the characters.

Just look at what happened to Banner in Civil War II. Pak has a great ear for the character and wrote a touching story, but Bendis wanted a Banner who was experimenting on himself again, so he wrote a totally different character. There seems to be a tendency to let writers do whatever they want without a real editorial vision coming from Marvel these days. On the one hand, that means a lot of great flavors of superheroism. On the other hand, the Marvel Universe no longer feels like a cohesive thing.

If you want comics with strong continuity, I think the best place to go is smaller publishers like IDW.




Conquest of Greystone Valley - Enter the world between worlds.
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Gamma Ra


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,741



No question the amount of books Marvel comics puts out poses a tremendous task in trying to keep continuity, but that is why they have editors. This is why I place more of the blame on lazy editors than I do on a writers negligence. I truly don't have any issue with writers having creative freedom to envision a character, but it must remain true to previous history and we should be able to see the growth in the new direction. One of the most ridiculous nonsensical completely out of character moments was when Scott Summers all of a sudden took on Magneto's philosophy. Purley a bad editing move done for shock value. I'm not saying it's not possible for any character to change views, but nothing lead to that change. Bad editing and bad writing.

You bring up another good point as to the problem with the Marvel "Universe" i.e., Marvel allows certain "super star" writers too much freedom. Whatever they want to write goes unchecked even when it goes against proper characterization. It's really sickening. Some may not think it's a big deal, but it ruins the illusion of a universe. It's really only random stories and in truth that made it easier for me to scale back my spending on comics and eventually stop buying altogether.





He's?!? A Man-like MONSTER...an Elemental Force! He's?!? Indestructible! That's why you don't comprehend him!! And because he IS...Indestructible...the Battle Board will not tolerate him nor his INCREDIBLE abilities!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Surge - the WORLDBREAKER!!!
Gamma Ra the Assassin quotes Stan Lee - "The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got...I assume at some point he'll get worn out, but NEVER the Hulk." Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine Oct 2006 issue - Proceeding Message from the CHURCH OF HULK!!!
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Gamma Ra


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,741





    Quote:
    Storywise, aside from the Red She Hulk stuff (which I enjoyed, but others did not) there wasn't a lot of ways her staying would have made things fresh. We already know editorial prevented them from having a baby.


I grew to like Betty as Red She-Hulk, always liked Ross as the Red Hulk didn't care for Rick's A-Bomb look, liked Cho as that big headed Leader-type character.





He's?!? A Man-like MONSTER...an Elemental Force! He's?!? Indestructible! That's why you don't comprehend him!! And because he IS...Indestructible...the Battle Board will not tolerate him nor his INCREDIBLE abilities!!! Watch out for that Gamma-Surge - the WORLDBREAKER!!!
Gamma Ra the Assassin quotes Stan Lee - "The way I established the Hulk, the more he fought, the stronger he got...I assume at some point he'll get worn out, but NEVER the Hulk." Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine Oct 2006 issue - Proceeding Message from the CHURCH OF HULK!!!
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