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The Mandarin


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,389


https://www.newsarama.com/38289-tony-stark-s-back-as-iron-man-in-april-2018.html



I hate this cover. To me, David Marquez drew the perfect Stark. Marquez's version looked relatable and heroic. Chris Sprouse's version looks like a villain. A stoned villain. That's a face that says, "I'd be doing something cruel and malicious right now, but I just smoked a huuuge joint." Hopefully he won't be given anymore work drawing Stark.




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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 1,791



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Leonard


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,014



You're projecting, Mandarin.



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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,061



    Quote:
    I hate this cover. To me, David Marquez drew the perfect Stark. Marquez's version looked relatable and heroic. Chris Sprouse's version looks like a villain. A stoned villain. That's a face that says, "I'd be doing something cruel and malicious right now, but I just smoked a huuuge joint." Hopefully he won't be given anymore work drawing Stark.


I didn't get the villain vibe. Or the huge joint vibe, either, actually, but at least that one I can see and be amused by.

My thing is, he looks about 40. How old is Tony Stark supposed to be?






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The Mandarin


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,389


It's ambiguous, but generally early thirties.




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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,061


Bendis's last issue is MAY.

Not February as I was hoping. Not March, nor April. But May. He stays on until issue 600 because of course he must, he's Bendis.

Bah.






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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 1,791



    Quote:
    Bendis's last issue is MAY.



    Quote:
    Not February as I was hoping. Not March, nor April. But May. He stays on until issue 600 because of course he must, he's Bendis.



    Quote:
    Bah.


If Riri ends up in a refrigerator I will forgive him.


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Alexandre Juliao


Member Since: Sat Oct 04, 2008
Posts: 591




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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,061



    Quote:
    If Riri ends up in a refrigerator I will forgive him.


Why do you hate her so much? What's wrong with her? She's a girl super-genius who built armor. Her armor is much more hers than War-Machine's ever was his. Rhodey piloted the fighter jet. Riri not only pilots it but built it and maintains it. She's a fantastic role model for my granddaughters if I ever have any. She's awesome. Nor does she call herself Iron Man. She calls herself Ironheart. She's not trying to replace Tony. In fact I strongly suspect she will have a hand in finding and saving him.








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The Mandarin


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,389


I've been baffled by that myself. I found her run on the book mostly charming. Not flawless by any means; it needed to keep her grief a living part of the book, and give her villains who embodied the issues a young black woman would face. So not flawless, but charming nonetheless. I would have liked her to become a part of the cast. Maybe even be to Iron Man what Kitty and Jubilee were to Wolverine, and the Robins are to Batman.




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Leonard


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,014



Do you know what a 'Mary Sue' is?



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Leonard


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,014



Really? You didn't want the Mandarin to violate her, or something?



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The Mandarin


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,389


I think in five or ten years it might make financial sense to refrigerate her. But for now, and possibly for quite a long time, it makes more financial sense to have her develop a father/daughter relationship with Stark.




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Alexandre Juliao


Member Since: Sat Oct 04, 2008
Posts: 591



    Quote:

      Quote:
      If Riri ends up in a refrigerator I will forgive him.



    Quote:
    Why do you hate her so much? What's wrong with her? She's a girl super-genius who built armor. Her armor is much more hers than War-Machine's ever was his. Rhodey piloted the fighter jet. Riri not only pilots it but built it and maintains it. She's a fantastic role model for my granddaughters if I ever have any. She's awesome. Nor does she call herself Iron Man. She calls herself Ironheart. She's not trying to replace Tony. In fact I strongly suspect she will have a hand in finding and saving him.




    Quote:

    Do you know what a 'Mary Sue' is?





No doubt Riri is one of the worst examples of Mary Sue I've ever seen. But killing her is unnecessary. Just do with her, what was done with her twin sister, the new Power Girl at DC. Give her to a writer with real interest in giving her a real personality. I can't see a better way than that, to exorcise the ridiculous work that has been done with her so far.


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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,061



    Quote:

    Do you know what a 'Mary Sue' is?


Yes. Is that why Mystery Man (and I guess you) hate her? She's too competent, attractive, and popular?

While I know what a Mary Sue is, I don't relate to people's reactions to a Mary Sue. I love characters who are outrageously good at what they do, attractive, and popular. An incompetent, funny-looking, and unpopular character would be depressing to read about. Hmm. I guess incompetent, funny-looking, and popular would be OK. (Jughead.) Incompetent, drop dead gorgeous, and unpopular would be unrealistic. (Drop dead gorgeous equals popular regardless of competence. Hey, we're apes.) Super-competent, funny-looking, and unpopular would make for a lot of angst but could work if the character has at least one friend and actually accomplishes very important things and demonstrates terrific nobility.

But competent, attractive, and popular is my favorite. Steve Rogers, for example. Tony Stark also. Thor.

Wait - how about two out of the three desirable states of being? Let's see. Incompetent, gorgeous, popular. Not a good protagonist but possibly a good antagonist. Competent, gorgeous, unpopular. Unrealistic. Competent, funny-looking, popular. Definitely could work as a protagonist.










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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 1,791



    Quote:

      Quote:
      If Riri ends up in a refrigerator I will forgive him.



    Quote:
    Why do you hate her so much? What's wrong with her? She's a girl super-genius who built armor. Her armor is much more hers than War-Machine's ever was his. Rhodey piloted the fighter jet. Riri not only pilots it but built it and maintains it. She's a fantastic role model for my granddaughters if I ever have any. She's awesome. Nor does she call herself Iron Man. She calls herself Ironheart. She's not trying to replace Tony. In fact I strongly suspect she will have a hand in finding and saving him.



    Quote:



She's and SJW Mary Sue fan-fiction Bendis wrote for his daughter.
Lets see what's wrong with her...

1)She's part of Marvels forced diversity line. Replace a popular hero with a Diversity knock off who nobody asked for and very few want (look at sales drop).

2)She has to be portrayed as being better smarter etc then the person she has replaced without any signs for effort or struggle to get there...she just IS...Mary Sue

3)For being so smart she acts like a total psychotic idiot and people par her on the head and let her get away with it.

4)She is constantly being justified as the greatest thing since sliced bread by everyone in the Marvel Universe since her appearance despite her crazy antics. Teenage throws fit...of course the adults are wrong.

5)She hasn't really been shown doing anything intelligent...we are just told she is...and everything is handed to her.

6)There is no struggle...there is no emotional attachment to her because she really shows no feelings or emotions herself except some anger and self-entitlement feelings.

7)Her origin is...she wanted to be repressed. Begged her teacher to repress her until she finally said...oh you cant be Tony Stark. And being as mentally unstable as Hank Pym on his worst days THAT is her reason to become a hero?

8)She may call herself IronHeart...but...what book is it we see her heading? She has replaced him because of Marvels failed false Diversity agenda.

9)Rhodey was a trusted friend of Starks for years. Riri is some emotional and mentally disturbed teenager who stole from her college and despite Starks constant paranoia his Armor and tech will be misused he just hands it over to this total stranger who all he knows about is that she is a criminal? There was NO buildup...he just handed it over to a complete under aged stranger.

10)You say below that she's attractive...that shouldn't even be an issue..shes 13, why are they making her sexy...kinda disturbing.

...I can go on and on...



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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 1,791



    Quote:
    I think in five or ten years it might make financial sense to refrigerate her. But for now, and possibly for quite a long time, it makes more financial sense to have her develop a father/daughter relationship with Stark.


Nah just bring Teen Tony back and they can date. He could be her cuck boyfriend.


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America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,061



    Quote:
    She's and SJW Mary Sue fan-fiction Bendis wrote for his daughter.
    Lets see what's wrong with her...



    Quote:
    1)She's part of Marvels forced diversity line. Replace a popular hero with a Diversity knock off who nobody asked for and very few want (look at sales drop).



    Quote:
    2)She has to be portrayed as being better smarter etc then the person she has replaced without any signs for effort or struggle to get there...she just IS...Mary Sue



    Quote:
    3)For being so smart she acts like a total psychotic idiot and people par her on the head and let her get away with it.



    Quote:
    4)She is constantly being justified as the greatest thing since sliced bread by everyone in the Marvel Universe since her appearance despite her crazy antics. Teenage throws fit...of course the adults are wrong.



    Quote:
    5)She hasn't really been shown doing anything intelligent...we are just told she is...and everything is handed to her.



    Quote:
    6)There is no struggle...there is no emotional attachment to her because she really shows no feelings or emotions herself except some anger and self-entitlement feelings.



    Quote:
    7)Her origin is...she wanted to be repressed. Begged her teacher to repress her until she finally said...oh you cant be Tony Stark. And being as mentally unstable as Hank Pym on his worst days THAT is her reason to become a hero?



    Quote:
    8)She may call herself IronHeart...but...what book is it we see her heading? She has replaced him because of Marvels failed false Diversity agenda.



    Quote:
    9)Rhodey was a trusted friend of Starks for years. Riri is some emotional and mentally disturbed teenager who stole from her college and despite Starks constant paranoia his Armor and tech will be misused he just hands it over to this total stranger who all he knows about is that she is a criminal? There was NO buildup...he just handed it over to a complete under aged stranger.



    Quote:
    10)You say below that she's attractive...that shouldn't even be an issue..shes 13, why are they making her sexy...kinda disturbing.



    Quote:
    ...I can go on and on...


Sad thing is, half of what you point out was inevitable because of Bendis's inadequacies as a writer. No signs of effort or struggle... telling instead of showing... no strong emotions except anger or fear... motivations that are unrelatable or which make no sense... out of character behavior... all are classic Bendis.

My one question is - Why do you say she's psychotic? That's a strong word. Did she try to kill someone?

Incidentally, I'd been assuming she was 18. I knew she went to MIT and most people are 18 when they do that. I should have guessed she'd be on an accelerated schedule.






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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 1,791



    Quote:
    Sad thing is, half of what you point out was inevitable because of Bendis's inadequacies as a writer. No signs of effort or struggle... telling instead of showing... no strong emotions except anger or fear... motivations that are unrelatable or which make no sense... out of character behavior... all are classic Bendis.


Fair enough. He can be a good writer...but these indeed are often his weaknesses. The other 1/2 of the problem was the SJW motives of Marvel at this time and calling anyone who didn't like what they were doing Nazi's. I will say the concept had potential if done correctly and over time and not as a quick diversity "replacement".


    Quote:
    My one question is - Why do you say she's psychotic? That's a strong word. Did she try to kill someone?


The way her eyes are always looking. The way she talks. The way she shows little or no empathy for anyone else. She's so wooden in her personality that the holograms seem more human. She acts entitled and is not driven by remorse or to help others...only by her need for self validation by others.


    Quote:
    Incidentally, I'd been assuming she was 18. I knew she went to MIT and most people are 18 when they do that. I should have guessed she'd be on an accelerated schedule.


She might be 15...but I know they talked about her age in interviews...and had her as minor in their discussions...this is all based on Bendis wanting to do fan fiction and make Riri based on his own daughter.


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