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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,260


Kingsley seems to just be there, but we never really got anything other than him being a ruthless or greedy businessman or crook, did we ever get deeper than that? With Norman, he's a great villain because we really understand him and we know his inner psyche and his motivations. Heck, it seems that Macendale and Leeds were the more fleshed-out Hobgoblins. I think that we should get at least something of an origin story for him and get into his mind. Other thoughts?


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LapsedFan


Member Since: Sat Aug 12, 2017
Posts: 9


I don't come on this site much after a comment made by a Moderator on another board, but I do occasionally read the messages here. Yours caught my eye.

If you are interested in Kingsley...his first appearance is Peter Parker, the Spectacular Spider-Man #43 (cover date June 1980). He is a fashion designer (and stereotypically portrayed as gay...though this is never followed up on). He is put in the story to be a victim of new villain...Belladonna (also her first appearance...last is #48). Kingsley is accused of stealing fashion designs and presented as a spineless toad...Spidey only reluctantly saves him.

While no more is ever stated about Kingsley's fashion business, it is the first clue as to the Hobgoblin's identity in Amazing Spider-Man #238. Hobby's comments that he dyed and re-designed Osborn's look.

Corrupt fashion designer to master criminal...far stretch? Certainly one of the more interesting back-stories of anyone. Hope that helps.

Jason


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LapsedFan


Member Since: Sat Aug 12, 2017
Posts: 9


Just thought of this...in Amazing Spider-Man #280....we also see that Mary Jane is working as a model at Kingsley's business (though she thinks she is interacting with Roderick Kingsley...it is actually twin brother Daniel that she talks to). This is the second time (ASM #250 is the first) that readers are shown Daniel (but we are lead to believe that he is Roderick who is talking to the Hobgoblin). That same issue Mary Jane meets the Hobgoblin in civilian clothes and knows him (leaving readers to wander how Mary Jane knows him)...This all became much clearer years later when 'we' were let in on the fact that Roderick has a twin brother.

I think I made Hobby's backstory as confusing as possible...if not, let me know and I will try harder!!!

Jason


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,051


Kingsley is a ruthless business man who likes to use proxies and stand ins and all of them are expendable.

The employee of his that stumbled upon the green goblin cache and told him of it was soon dead after they took all the goblin gear and supplies to wear Kingsley could study them.

Kingsley saw a massive opportunity before him and chose to use it, but use it in his own way as Hobgoblin and not another Green Goblin.

Kingsley was also smart/wise enough to thoroughly study the goblin gear, get practiced with it, customize it to his own specifications, study the goblin journals and made sure he was ready and would not repeat the mistakes osborn made.

He braintwists another expendable proxie to recreate the formula knowing what would happen and used that bio data to perfect the formula for himself.

He made great use of having a twin brother to act as a doppelganger even sacrificing him against Phil/fake Hobgoblin.

He framed Flash as being the Hobgoblin and had Ned Leeds as a brain twisted agent to take the fatal fall to make everyone think the Hobgoblin was dead. I sincerely doubt that Leeds every really fought Spiderman as a Hobgoblin. he was just used for occasional stand in work and to take the fatal attack from those assassins so that Kingsley could disappear and retire.

He retires for years until Macendale disgraces the name Hobgoblin and returns to deal with him.

Nowadays Kingsley seems to be in the super villain franchise industry. Taking ID's and gear from super villains that are incarcerated or dead and franchising them out to new users for a tidy percentage of their take. If they don't pay, they get a visit from Kingsley.

Kingsley is narcissistic and a ruthless killer and that was BEFORE he got the goblin gear and became Hobgoblin. Back when he and SPidey first battled he was determined to prove he wasn't crazy like Osborn, and I think there was some question of whether or not the goblin serum did make him crazy or just enhanced his already existing ruthlessness.

I need to go back and reread those classics....


Anyway, framing Leeds and leaving him to die in his place is just part of Kingsley's ruthlessness. Leeds was a brain-twisted puppet to him, just like all the other henchmen that he disposed of both before and since.

Kingsley kills the henchmen that found and helped him gather the goblin gear.

Kingsley brain twists Lefty Donovan into recreating the goblin serum and used him as a test subject against Spider-man then killed him.

Kingsley brain twists Leeds and leaves him to die.


Kingsley sends his cowardly twin brother as the Hobgoblin to check things out and prepare for his imminent return to the city but stops his return when Phil as Fake Hobgoblin killed his brother.

Kingsley sends in another brain-twisted pawn into battle against Phil the Fake, the pawn is killed but Phil knew it wasn't the real Hobgoblin.

We see Kingsley back at his place in another country already brain twisting someone else to inevitably take the fall for him




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LapsedFan


Member Since: Sat Aug 12, 2017
Posts: 9


Just one correction to your otherwise spot-on description of Kingsley....it was actually Macendale that paid the Foreigner to kill Ned Leeds. The Kingpin provided info to both Spider-Man and Macendale that Leeds was the Hobgoblin.

The aftermath of Leeds' murder is shown in Spider-Man Versus Wolverine (with not clear explanation given...it is assumed that Leeds was getting to close to his investigation of Russian mob activity). A few months later in Amazing Spider-Man #289, we are shown the meeting of Macendale and the Foreigner and the actual account of Leeds' murder. Interestingly though, in the first account Leeds is tied to a chair in civilian clothes. In the flashback he actually fights the killers in his Hobgoblin gear....probable mis-communication of the creative teams of the time or as I've always thought...Peter David wanted to explain an un-needed murder of a long-time supporting cast member. Remember, David only wrote that one issue of ASM, and there was nothing concrete to point to Leeds being the only or even one of the Hobgoblins at that time. And, for many years after, we are led to believe that Leeds was the one and only Hobgoblin.

I was 9 to 13 for the original Hobgoblin story (ASM #'s 238 to 289 with tie-in's)...this was all the talk of Marvel fans in my area at the time. I still think any version of Hobby beats out any other Spidey villain!!

Jason


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,051


If memory serves Kingsley revealed in Hobgoblin Lives that he knew the attack was coming thanks to his own intelligence sources and that he fooled Macendale and everyone else.

The death of Leeds as Hobgoblin was a hastily written mess that should not have happened, but Stern didn't get to unmask his creation before leaving the book and as I recall, editorial at the time did not agree with him that Kingsley was indeed the Hobgoblin.

Kingsley returned because Macendale became an embarrassment to the name Hobgoblin that he, Kingsley, had created and disposed of Macendale.




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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,807


Did we ever find out how Kingsley became so adept at mind-control? Was this in the Osborn journals (I don't think we've seen Osborn do this?), or is Kingsley just a talented hypnotist? That might be a good point of clarification if they ever decide to dig into his background.




And a lean, silent figure slowly fades into the gathering darkness, aware at last that in this world, with great power there must also come -- great responsibility!
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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,051


Far as I recall he studied Osborn's journals and read the manual for the Winkler device.

Lefty Donovan was his first target and it worked well enough. Leeds was a later version but was he just a decoy for the assassin's attack or was he used more then that?

In recent years his twin was suited up and killed and then another decoy was killed and we see Kingsley brain twisting yet another.

At this point I would say he is quite adept with the machine except for one class that he likely cannot compensate for.....the fear of death.

Most of the decoys when faced with death tend to get terrified and that disrupts the brain twisting.

Leeds called out for Spiderman to help him.

Kingsley brother and later decoy also had this problem. To me that is the clue that it wasn't Kingsley that got killed


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LapsedFan


Member Since: Sat Aug 12, 2017
Posts: 9


The only time that Leeds appears as the Hobgoblin (except for flashbacks) were Amazing Spider-Man #'s 284-288 (Gang War storyline), 289 (flashback of death..showing him in costume....did the Foreigner's men change him out of his goblin gear and into street clothes, or was this a retcon (of a couple of months) to fit Leeds as Hobby...that's always been my thought) and Power Pack #29.

Again, this is kind of retconned in the fact that in the above issues, Hobgoblin acts much differently than in other appearances...here, he is more irrational and given to emotional swings.

I think that editorial felt that these issues didn't gel with the rest of his story (and probably felt that the mystery of his identity was dragging on....I was only 13 at this time, but recall being told by comic store owners that the main reason customers were dropping the book was the tedious red herrings and out-right lies.)

I still think Hobgoblin is Spidey's best foe (Norman is a very close second), so no one will ever convince me that this was a boring and drawn out story....unlike this answer.

Jason


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,051


If you want a boring and drawn out Spiderman story that nearly killed the books and ticked off the fans that would be Clone Saga 2.

The mystery of the Hobgoblin was one of the better mysteries the book ever had.....until Stern left before outing him. That is when it got all screwed up until Stern could write Hobgoblin Lives.


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