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Author
Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,732


So as I understand it, the official story of One More Day was that nothing in our established continuity changed other than that Peter and MJ didn't actually say "I do". So presumably after their aborted wedding, they went on to live like a married couple for years and never mentioned the reasons why they didn't marry. We all know that doesn't add up, so here are a few questions:

Did Peter still unmask during Civil War?

If so, did Kingpin still go after Peter, May and Mary Jane?

Was May actually shot and then made a miraculous recovery? What does May remember about this, considering she lost her memory of Peter's identity? Would she have any idea why she, Peter and MJ were on the run and living in a motel when she was shot through the window?

How did Peter and Mary Jane actually split up (considering that they were, according to the official story, a couple at least until the Mephisto deal)?

If I recall correctly, after the Mephisto deal there was a one-year time skip. What do we know about what happened in that year? I believe in that year Peter, Reed and Strange got the identity genie back in the bottle, and Harry came out as alive after all. Anything else?






And a lean, silent figure slowly fades into the gathering darkness, aware at last that in this world, with great power there must also come -- great responsibility!
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LapsedFan


Member Since: Sat Aug 12, 2017
Posts: 9


I've always looked at it this way....it makes no sense!!. Mephisto can't just say...you won't be married, but everything else will stay the same. Think about any event in your life (marriage/birth of child/job change/residence change/gain a friend/lose a friend/illness/death)...can you say that if you took out any one of those things...that the rest of your life would have happened the exact same way? Of course not. The only way to reconcile this (I feel) is to say the EVERYTHING from Amazing Spider-Man Giant-Sized Annual #21 (mid-way thru) to Amazing Spider-Man #546 (last few pages)....did not happen. Mephisto created an alternate time-line, most of which we have never actually seen. Some events could have happened the same way...most would be modified..and some just wouldn't have ever happened. There, I just saved everyone 20 1/2 years of comic book buying (also every characters continuity would be modified to some degree..unless they never encountered Spidey during the period).

Jason


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Stu The Disgruntled Greek

Moderator

Member Since: Tue Nov 05, 1996
Posts: 1,301



    Quote:
    So as I understand it, the official story of One More Day was that nothing in our established continuity changed other than that Peter and MJ didn't actually say "I do". So presumably after their aborted wedding, they went on to live like a married couple for years and never mentioned the reasons why they didn't marry. We all know that doesn't add up, so here are a few questions:


Read One Momement in time from like a decade ago.


    Quote:
    Did Peter still unmask during Civil War?


Yes


    Quote:
    If so, did Kingpin still go after Peter, May and Mary Jane?


Yes


    Quote:
    Was May actually shot and then made a miraculous recovery? What does May remember about this, considering she lost her memory of Peter's identity? Would she have any idea why she, Peter and MJ were on the run and living in a motel when she was shot through the window?


Yes to May being shot.

As for the other details... May didn't ask any questions in story from what I remember. My no prize, she knew they were staying in a motel to escape all the Civil War stuff going on at Avengers HQ where they were living because of Peters job with Stark. Also Her house did blow up in an earlier storyline by JMS if I remember correctly. Stark replaced as a sorry for her being shot. I think it was with that Vibranium Man issues the house blew up.


    Quote:
    How did Peter and Mary Jane actually split up (considering that they were, according to the official story, a couple at least until the Mephisto deal)?


she still love Peter but she questions her strength to be around the danger. Paraphrased from ASm641, I dug it out. The way I just read the Pages, MJ was lying to Peter to get him to move on.


    Quote:
    If I recall correctly, after the Mephisto deal there was a one-year time skip. What do we know about what happened in that year? I believe in that year Peter, Reed and Strange got the identity genie back in the bottle, and Harry came out as alive after all. Anything else?


Mephistos retconned himself out of making the deal. He only kept them from getting married, he didn't do much else. The devil lied.... Imagine that.

The Disgruntled Greek




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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,726


... Mephisto erased the wedding because the next step would have been the birth of a new daughter (not May, who was already dead on Earth-616 but Annie as revealed in the Renew Your Vows timeline).

So, a small change in the past triggered a huge change in the near future.

It is obvious that Mephisto doesn't care about the wedding itself. So we are led to believe that he wanted to erase Annie from the Earth-616 reality.

The direct result of the aborted weddding is that Annie won't get born and that it will be for the benefit of Mephisto.

Here is the problem : none of the specialists (Strange, Clea, Hellstrom, Drumm, Illyana, Szardos, Sefton, Druid, Harkness, Kale, Topaz, Talisman, Roma ... ) noticed that Mephisto had tampered with our reality's timeline.
We don't know what Mephisto's plan was really about. Did he really care about destroying Annie or was there another issue that we are not aware of ?

Mephisto won a battle but we still don't know what the purpose of the battle was ...


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D. Strange


Member Since: Tue Sep 19, 2017
Posts: 272


They tried to explain it by saying that they still lived together, so everything happened minus the vows.

The problem is, as J.M. Dematteis once said, marriage and living with your girlfriend are not the same.

The weirdest part of all, is that if they hadn't changed continuity more than that one day(as Marvel claims)why is this the thing that splits them up?

In the end of the day, yes May getting shot is tragic, but weighed against the combined experiences of:
-losing a child
- May already seemingly dying in front of Peter
- Peter's nervous breakdown
- MJs stalker
- Venom pulling a Cape Fear
- Harry Osborn's craziness in the 90s
- Kraven burying him and taking his identity
-etc.

doesn't it seem kind of like something Peter and MJ could accept and deal with, certainly mourn, but deal with?



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,508




    Quote:
    They tried to explain it by saying that they still lived together, so everything happened minus the vows.



    Quote:
    The problem is, as J.M. Dematteis once said, marriage and living with your girlfriend are not the same.


I don't think Aunt May would have approved of Peter living with a girlfriend he wasn't at the very least engaged to. Much less MJ having his baby out of wedlock.

We may be in a modern age but that crusty old crone is old school. She's everyone's religious grandmas and nosy aunts all rolled into one. She would be ashamed to have people know the boy she raised like a son was living in sin. Oh and the invective she would get from Aunt Anna for Peter knocking up her darling MJ and not making an honest woman out of her. It would kill May.


    Quote:
    The weirdest part of all, is that if they hadn't changed continuity more than that one day(as Marvel claims)why is this the thing that splits them up?



    Quote:
    In the end of the day, yes May getting shot is tragic, but weighed against the combined experiences of:
    -losing a child
    - May already seemingly dying in front of Peter
    - Peter's nervous breakdown
    - MJs stalker
    - Venom pulling a Cape Fear
    - Harry Osborn's craziness in the 90s
    - Kraven burying him and taking his identity
    -etc.


Is this stalker you're talking about the person who faked her death or the guy in the early years of the marriage that stalked her?


    Quote:
    doesn't it seem kind of like something Peter and MJ could accept and deal with, certainly mourn, but deal with?






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LapsedFan


Member Since: Sat Aug 12, 2017
Posts: 9


Also, if Peter and Mary Jane decided not to get married (in 1987, our time) then why in 2007 (our time...at least a few years in comic time)...is MJ still looking so forlorn when she leaves the party in ASM #545 (and yes, I made a slight typo in my first post...I meant 545 not 546). I mean Peter and MJ had been dating and living together, but even Flash still comments that Peter and MJ aren't speaking (or something to that affect..I don't have the issue close by)....wait....they are still not talking over not getting married from a few years ago...but they lived together for years....this makes no sense. Either something else happened..or MJ really holds a grudge.

I stand by my earlier post....THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. The simplest explanation is 20 1/2 years (our time) of stories are altered or never happened or.....

Anyways, I sold ALL of my Marvels from that period..and made a killing...so, who's smarter....me or Quesada??

Again, this is just my opinion but instead of agonizing over how/what/why happened...just accept that an alternate timeline was created that sling-shotted readers from Amazing Spider-Man Giant-Sized Annual #21 all the way to Amazing Spider-Man #545...it's much simpler!!

Jason

I welcome the opposite view...can anyone justify those years of stories still taking place (other than just saying...they took place)??


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 2,785


The stalker was the one that faked her death with the exploding plane. I believe Byrne was the writer but don't hold me to that.


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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 2,785


The whole thing makes no sense. The only thing that changed was the wedding was aborted, hence no future kid.

Now MJ falls back on the old trope that she can't handle the idea of losing Peter to a supervillain but also won't stop him from being Spider-man as she knows Peter can't stop and she wouldn't handle the guilt of making him stop.

Anyone get the impression that Mephisto has planted a few commands in her mind?

EVERYTHING ELSE happened the way it happened. They did live together, almost had a kid until Clone Saga 2 and Osborn being retro'd back to life to fix that junkpile ended the kid. Aunt May still dies in ASM 400 only to be retconned back to life. She still learns Peter is Spidey, he still unmasks in Civil Bore and Aunt May still gets shot.

Except that they were not married.

This is all Joe Q's doing because he felt the marriage and a divorce would make Peter unrelatable to readers....but dealing with the Devil is okay....

But as Joe Q has stated: "SHUT UP! IT'S MAGIC! WE DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT!"

They need to do in the main book what was done in Renew Your Vows: Give MJ super powers. While Spider powers would be obvious they don't have to be spider-powers. have her merge with a benign symbiote from Venom's world, or have the venom symbiote temporarily bond to her, then leave her and we can make her the next Anti-Venom.

Give her a Rescue style of Iron Man armor like Pepper had.

Give her a blood transfusion from Jim Android Torch Hammond and let her gain some flame powers from it and make her the new Firestar.

Or have Dracula put the bite on her but due to interference or magic from Dr Strange she isn't cured but is now a daywalker like Blade.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,508




    Quote:
    The stalker was the one that faked her death with the exploding plane. I believe Byrne was the writer but don't hold me to that.


Ok the guy I was thinking of was named Jonathan Caesar.



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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 2,785


That was the one that kidnapped her and held her hostage until she was freed and was still able to use his influence to shatter her modeling career.


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D. Strange


Member Since: Tue Sep 19, 2017
Posts: 272


I was talking about the exploding Plane one... but the owner of her building that torpedoed her career works too.

It also brings up another point. MJ was no ones Damsel in Distress. Sure, she was technically a damsel and occasionally in distress, but she was not week.

She freed herself from that stalker in the late 80s, she pulled a gun on a goblin, and faced Harry Osborn and tried to talk him down when he was spiraling out of control.

She also was Petr's rock.

I don't know who has been popping up in the Spider-Man books in occasionally in Slott's run, in red hair, but it wasn't MJ.



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,508



...what happened to Seward Trainer? The only reason Ben introduced Seward to MJ and later Peter was because of the complications in MJ's pregnancy. So he would have never met Peter and MJ or offered his lab to Ben and Peter to do their (botched) clone test. MJ would have never been smacked. Seward wouldn't have betrayed them and Ben to Norman. Or been murdered by Gaunt.

So if baby May never existed Seward's got to be alive right?



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Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 2,785


baby May still happened and was still taken away by Osborn. Even though it doesn't make sense now that MJ would be pregnant and carry Peter's kid and yet not marry him.

But Mephisto did show them as he started the Mephisto Mindwipe that had they stayed married they would have had another kid.

But again, per Joe Q the so called mastermind behind the Mephisto Mindwipe: "It's Magic! We don't have to explain it!"

Now....if over the years and in recent issues they had not had Mephisto appear again to taunt Peter a bit they COULD have retconned this away using Immortus as the true villain and he just impersonated Mephisto. Or Immortus manipulated Mephisto or used a Space Phantom in the form of Mephisto.

Immortus could have somehow seen a future where Peter and MJ having kids would be bad for whatever reason and thus sought to nullify the marriage via time warp and yet used his temporal powers to ensure that all events still somehow happened to eliminate the paradox effect.

Now however, I would expect Peter to finally figure things out and have a confrontation with Mephisto and get the marriage restored, however doing so may cost him aunt May. But perhaps he will still take the risk and his "faith" and heroism would be rewarded by the heavens with Aunt May still being alive.


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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,726



    Quote:
    baby May still happened and was still taken away by Osborn. Even though it doesn't make sense now that MJ would be pregnant and carry Peter's kid and yet not marry him.

    But Mephisto did show them as he started the Mephisto Mindwipe that had they stayed married they would have had another kid.

    But again, per Joe Q the so called mastermind behind the Mephisto Mindwipe: "It's Magic! We don't have to explain it!"

    Now....if over the years and in recent issues they had not had Mephisto appear again to taunt Peter a bit they COULD have retconned this away using Immortus as the true villain and he just impersonated Mephisto. Or Immortus manipulated Mephisto or used a Space Phantom in the form of Mephisto.

    Immortus could have somehow seen a future where Peter and MJ having kids would be bad for whatever reason and thus sought to nullify the marriage via time warp and yet used his temporal powers to ensure that all events still somehow happened to eliminate the paradox effect.

    Now however, I would expect Peter to finally figure things out and have a confrontation with Mephisto and get the marriage restored, however doing so may cost him aunt May. But perhaps he will still take the risk and his "faith" and heroism would be rewarded by the heavens with Aunt May still being alive.


The main problem is that the Marvel board had a cowardly behaviour with the fate of their flagship character.

I can understand that Marvel prefers a single Spider-Man but this silly story was certainly not the way to do that ...

Normally, MJ & Peter should have divorced after the death of baby May.
It doesn't always happen but it is a coherent motive for divorce in real life.
While it would have been totally unfair for Peter to deal with that, it is still because of the war between Spider-Man & Green Goblin that the corpse of the baby disappeared. The birth might also have been difficult because of Spider-Man's unique biology.
So, even if MJ might still love Peter, this is the kind of event that could have led to a divorce.

Instead, we had hocus pocus with Mephisto.



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,508




    Quote:

      Quote:
      baby May still happened and was still taken away by Osborn. Even though it doesn't make sense now that MJ would be pregnant and carry Peter's kid and yet not marry him.



      Quote:
      But Mephisto did show them as he started the Mephisto Mindwipe that had they stayed married they would have had another kid.



      Quote:
      But again, per Joe Q the so called mastermind behind the Mephisto Mindwipe: "It's Magic! We don't have to explain it!"



      Quote:
      Now....if over the years and in recent issues they had not had Mephisto appear again to taunt Peter a bit they COULD have retconned this away using Immortus as the true villain and he just impersonated Mephisto. Or Immortus manipulated Mephisto or used a Space Phantom in the form of Mephisto.



      Quote:
      Immortus could have somehow seen a future where Peter and MJ having kids would be bad for whatever reason and thus sought to nullify the marriage via time warp and yet used his temporal powers to ensure that all events still somehow happened to eliminate the paradox effect.



      Quote:
      Now however, I would expect Peter to finally figure things out and have a confrontation with Mephisto and get the marriage restored, however doing so may cost him aunt May. But perhaps he will still take the risk and his "faith" and heroism would be rewarded by the heavens with Aunt May still being alive.



    Quote:
    The main problem is that the Marvel board had a cowardly behaviour with the fate of their flagship character.



    Quote:
    I can understand that Marvel prefers a single Spider-Man but this silly story was certainly not the way to do that ...



    Quote:
    Normally, MJ & Peter should have divorced after the death of baby May.
    It doesn't always happen but it is a coherent motive for divorce in real life.
    While it would have been totally unfair for Peter to deal with that, it is still because of the war between Spider-Man & Green Goblin that the corpse of the baby disappeared. The birth might also have been difficult because of Spider-Man's unique biology.
    So, even if MJ might still love Peter, this is the kind of event that could have led to a divorce.



    Quote:
    Instead, we had hocus pocus with Mephisto.


I think blaming the death of baby May for a divorce would only work if they had paved the way for that back when it actually happened. But a) their story picked up like a month after the baby "died" and they were mostly through the grieving process and b) the dead baby ultimately made their marriage stronger not weaker. They went through the horror of it together at the same time they lost Ben Reilly.

If Peter had neglected MJ and the baby died as a result of his preoccupation with being Spider-Man I could see that driving a wedge between them. But Norman made Peter just as much of a victim as MJ drugging Peter while MJ was in labor and Peter seeing Ben get killed like he did. I think MJ would be pretty crappy to want to break up with Peter after Ben's sacrifice and just the sheer trauma Peter went through losing Ben and the baby and to then lose the marriage.


The sad fact is it wasn't easy to extricate Peter from the marriage. Peter and MJ had a strong marriage that survived a dead baby, the death of relatives, stalkers, MJ's smoking habit, Peter's career, a lack of money. They were just not that easy to break up IMO. MJ was just a damn good wife all in all.



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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,726



    Quote:
    If Peter had neglected MJ and the baby died as a result of his preoccupation with being Spider-Man I could see that driving a wedge between them. But Norman made Peter just as much of a victim as MJ drugging Peter while MJ was in labor and Peter seeing Ben get killed like he did. I think MJ would be pretty crappy to want to break up with Peter after Ben's sacrifice and just the sheer trauma Peter went through losing Ben and the baby and to then lose the marriage.


Actually, I've seen a lot of couples break up for much less than that and nobody was to blame. There is so much that you can take before deciding that it is over. It doesn't mean that MJ should be the only one who decides to go away or that she leaves him without explanation. It means that they decide together that it is over.


    Quote:
    The sad fact is it wasn't easy to extricate Peter from the marriage. Peter and MJ had a strong marriage that survived a dead baby, the death of relatives, stalkers, MJ's smoking habit, Peter's career, a lack of money. They were just not that easy to break up IMO. MJ was just a damn good wife all in all.

I think that it would have been much better for both characters if Marvel had not cheated by using hocus pocus to erase their marriage.

I can accept a story about two persons deciding to break up. It is only life. Maybe, it would have started as an even bigger controversy among fans and, perhaps, they would have lost more readers at first.

But, in the long run, it would have been easier to refresh the Spider-Man book and go into different directions.

Instead, a decade after, we are left with the uneasy feeling that the two characters accepted to erase their wedding to please Mephisto of all people.

The two characters still broke up (so the final result is the same) but here is the paradox : they are fully responsible (MJ accepted Mephisto's proposal) without being fully responsible (they are not aware anymore that they were married but most readers know that they were !)

We are still talking about the topic although it happened 10 years ago.

What was the lesser evil ?
MJ & Peter both deciding that Spider-Man ruined their marriage and MJ starting a new life because they both agreed that's the best thing to do.
Or, Mephisto ?

I think that it would have been much more clever if it had been a true divorce.
Peter Parker would have been the first main superhero to do that.
Media would have talked about it.
A lot of fans would have been very angry.
But, in the long run, the characters would have been stronger because no third party would have been involved in the process.

One of the main problems is that OMD made Peter & MJ weaker characters and they never healed from this event.

For example, Superior Spider-Man. The only way that Dan Slott made the comic book evolve was to temporarily replace Peter Parker by one of his oldest enemies.

Dan Slott didn't make Otto Octavius a stronger character than Peter Parker. Octavius was still an arrogant megalomaniac whose notion of superheroism borders on fascism.

Dan Slott used Octavius to go on unchartered territory. Suddenly, things were fresh anew (BTW, it is Octavius who broke up with MJ once & for all !)

Suddenly, Spider-Man is dating a little person, Anna Maria Marconi (who is one of my favorite new comics characters by the way).

Dan Slott shocked a part of the readers ? Fine. It made them very angry ? Fine.
It was over-the-top & nearly absurd ? Absolutely !
... but things moved forward ! Suddenly, the book & the main character were no longer frozen in post-OMD paralysis.
Guess what ? It sold.

Not only am I a fan of Doc Ock but also I had again this old 1980s & 1990s feeling when the book could be, well, a comic book.

And yet, I like Peter & MJ when they were together. I really do ! But a decade later, longtime fans are still talking about OMD and its consequence on Peter Parker.

So when there was this parenthesis with Doc Ock, I bought again the comics because, for once, it was about something really new.

There is one truth about stories is that you cannot build them on morality, good feelings and global happiness. Something has to be ruined at one time or another, whether by villains, drama & tragedy, new twists & turns of events.

I really wish that, at one time or another, Marvel would have had the guts to do the divorce of Peter & MJ. At least, it would be over, 10 years after.

On the contrary, we are still in a reality where we feel that things should be different because, to begin with, it was Mephisto who was responsible of the whole thing.

Also, even though Dan Slott isn't one of my top favorite writers, I don't understand why so many people blame him about Peter not dating MJ, when it was JMS who write the OMD story.

Not only that but JMS also wrote Gwen Stacy having sex with Norman Osborn.

So, if I sum up : thanks to JMS, MJ made a deal with Mephisto & Gwen had sex with the Green Goblin ... I think that, maybe, it is really time that Peter dates somebody else and I don't mind if Peter is single and no longer married.

Actually, let's have him date twin sisters at the same time ! At least, it will be fun. \:\-\)


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,508



I think they should have just stuck with MJ. Peter is a weaker character without her IMO.

The problem with the divorce is you have to earn that sort of development. But for 20 years the spider marriage seemed to endure disaster after disaster and they always came through their problems with the marriage stronger than ever (like most "good" marriages).

I think Peter getting divorced would have just ruined him in a different way. We wouldn't be complaining about Mephisto and mind wipes. We could complain that a battle tested marriage like theirs was tossed out just so Peter could date. It would be the ultimate indignity for MJ.




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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,726



    Quote:
    I think they should have just stuck with MJ. Peter is a weaker character without her IMO.


^

(^_^')


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