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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,275


Off the top of my head, I can only think of three. It happened during the Dark Gods saga of the Jurgens/Jr Jr run. Perrikus broke it, I forgot how it got restored. It also happened during the JMS run, when Bor broke it. I haven't read the issue or storyline, but I know that The Destroyer broke it. Can anyone tell me when, and how it got restored? Am I missing any more? Come to think of it, with all of the powerhouses that Thor has faced, it probably should have gotten broken a lot more. Thanks.


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ThorTheMightiestAvenger


Member Since: Wed Mar 30, 2016
Posts: 530



You mentioned three
The other three are when it was destroyed in Ragnarok from the collision of multiple Uru weapons, when Molecule Man vaporized it, and when it was destroyed from the powerful blast Thor used on a celestial





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Norvell


Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 2,113



    Quote:

    You mentioned three
    The other three are when it was destroyed in Ragnarok from the collision of multiple Uru weapons, when Molecule Man vaporized it, and when it was destroyed from the powerful blast Thor used on a celestial


The Destroyer has actually broken it twice. He created cracks with his force-bolts, then broke it over Thor's chest.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 18,425


What was interesting is that the MM even stated that for him harder to damage and remake CA shield than even the Hammer!


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jazzbass6


Member Since: Tue Sep 30, 2014
Posts: 668


No, he didn't. Iron man's armor was the problem because of the tech.

Where are you getting your information????


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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,275


Didn't he restore it almost immediately after?


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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 773



    Quote:
    No, he didn't. Iron man's armor was the problem because of the tech.



    Quote:
    Where are you getting your information????


Exactly. Why does he troll in here when half the time he's spouting off inaccurate info?




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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 773



    Quote:
    Didn't he restore it almost immediately after?


Well not until the Avengers escaped from being killed by MM in the next issue.

MM's power rested in his wand until that particular story. He became the 2nd most powerful being in the universe to the Beyonder.

Does any one know his status right now? Where is he? Is he still considered to be the 2nd most powerful?







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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,908


Probably the most powerful if he is around. Or at least close to it. Depending on reading of things. He showed up in Ultimates. Life Bringer Galactus indicated he could destroy him with a thought.

He was the battery for Doom. Containing the Beyonder energy, from how many Beyonder's I am not sure exactly. Maybe all of them or not. When he got out he had the energy. Each Beyonder was able to kill large numbers of Celestials fairly easily. Beat abstract entities one on one. Three Beyonders overwhelmed the Living Tribunal.

So, if he contains the energy of all or several than he is going to be up there if not at the top depending whatever plot thing is around at the moment. Doom was more than the IG in Secret Wars.

So, pretty powerful. That said, Beyonders are a different beast than what the Beyonder was initially shown in SW and SW2. they made them fit in cannot but in terms of presentation and so on.





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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 773



    Quote:
    Probably the most powerful if he is around. Or at least close to it. Depending on reading of things. He showed up in Ultimates. Life Bringer Galactus indicated he could destroy him with a thought.



    Quote:
    He was the battery for Doom. Containing the Beyonder energy, from how many Beyonder's I am not sure exactly. Maybe all of them or not. When he got out he had the energy. Each Beyonder was able to kill large numbers of Celestials fairly easily. Beat abstract entities one on one. Three Beyonders overwhelmed the Living Tribunal.



    Quote:
    So, if he contains the energy of all or several than he is going to be up there if not at the top depending whatever plot thing is around at the moment. Doom was more than the IG in Secret Wars.



    Quote:
    So, pretty powerful. That said, Beyonders are a different beast than what the Beyonder was initially shown in SW and SW2. they made them fit in cannot but in terms of presentation and so on.


Appreciate your reply. What story or stories are you referencing in Ultimates or others?

I've lost track of the Beyonder and when did the Beyonders first appear?

I vaguely remember them but can't recall when they first showed up.




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jazzbass6


Member Since: Tue Sep 30, 2014
Posts: 668


The first Beyonder appeared in the REAL Secret Wars back in the '80's.


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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 773



    Quote:
    The first Beyonder appeared in the REAL Secret Wars back in the '80's.


Yes, thanks, but when did these Beyonders entities show up?




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Norvell


Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 2,113



    Quote:

      Quote:
      The first Beyonder appeared in the REAL Secret Wars back in the '80's.



    Quote:
    Yes, thanks, but when did these Beyonders entities show up?


They've been around, but never seen, since at least the 1980s. I believe they first 'showed' up when they stole Counter-Earth from the High Evolutionary.





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Golem

I think....

Member Since: Wed Dec 20, 2017
Posts: 24


....there was one more time it had been broken or damaged. Some kind of Marvel Team-up, I believe, with Spider Man. And I seem to recall they were on a rooftop and he fixed it with a thunderbolt, welding the broken piece with the rest of the hammer. Not sure that was in canon, but it should be, I think MTU issues were in 616 continuity. Or it could be some Amazing/spectacular Spider Man issue.....


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Golem


Member Since: Wed Dec 20, 2017
Posts: 24


No, he simply said it was the "weirdest" due to the peculiar way its molecules were interconnected.


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Norvell


Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 2,113



    Quote:
    No, he simply said it was the "weirdest" due to the peculiar way its molecules were interconnected.


In the context of manipulating molecules, weird and strange could equal difficult. I don't think JesusFan was that far off the mark, although he leaped a bit in his reasoning.


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Golem


Member Since: Wed Dec 20, 2017
Posts: 24


Sure, but that doesn't equate "harder to break".


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Norvell


Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 2,113



    Quote:
    Sure, but that doesn't equate "harder to break".


He didn't break it in the first place. He dissolved the molecules.


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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,908



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Probably the most powerful if he is around. Or at least close to it. Depending on reading of things. He showed up in Ultimates. Life Bringer Galactus indicated he could destroy him with a thought.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        He was the battery for Doom. Containing the Beyonder energy, from how many Beyonder's I am not sure exactly. Maybe all of them or not. When he got out he had the energy. Each Beyonder was able to kill large numbers of Celestials fairly easily. Beat abstract entities one on one. Three Beyonders overwhelmed the Living Tribunal.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          So, if he contains the energy of all or several than he is going to be up there if not at the top depending whatever plot thing is around at the moment. Doom was more than the IG in Secret Wars.

          Quote:

            Quote:
            So, pretty powerful. That said, Beyonders are a different beast than what the Beyonder was initially shown in SW and SW2. they made them fit in cannot but in terms of presentation and so on.



    Quote:
    Appreciate your reply. What story or stories are you referencing in Ultimates or others?


The Ultimates was a series that started one or two years ago and ended in either October or November. It followed a team of Earth heroes that were trying to help prevent cosmic issues from affecting Earth.

They helped change Galactus from an eater to a life bringer and Galactus drew them into a battle to free Eternity. Who was being held in chains by another entity that was revealed towards the end of the run.

At one point Galactus spoke with MM in the series and made it clear he was much more powerful. Even than this Galactus that defeated Order and Chaos.

The other areas to look at would be Johnathan Hickman's Avengers run. The Beyonder's showed up towards the tail end of that but there power is a constant through the run. We then see MM as a battery for Dr. Doom in Secret Wars. The newer series. There was an older series called SW that were also about the original Beyonder.


    Quote:
    I've lost track of the Beyonder and when did the Beyonders first appear?


The original Secret Wars in the 80's. His origin was retconned a few times. Nobody can fault you for getting confused.


    Quote:
    I vaguely remember them but can't recall when they first showed up.


Secret Wars. He was an entity from beyond everything. He was initially a being easily more powerful than Galactus or any other cosmic or mystical being at Marvel. Other than Molecule Man, who was said to contain a bit of the same energy as the Beyonder.

This was largely retconned into the Beyonder being a sentient cube being. So less than the big cosmics. This was then changed slightly in a few different ways. Back to the current, there are apparently a race of Beyonders. All insanely powerful. More powerful than abstracts, but are not able to manipulate time energies. Which is how Dr. Doom defeated them.






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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,908


The current race showed up at the end of Hickman's Avengers run. The first beyonder initially was a unique entity. When he was made into a cube being there were several sentient cosmic cube beings running around at the same time. The Shaper of Worlds and Kubik come to mind.




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Norvell


Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 2,113



    Quote:
    The current race showed up at the end of Hickman's Avengers run. The first beyonder initially was a unique entity. When he was made into a cube being there were several sentient cosmic cube beings running around at the same time. The Shaper of Worlds and Kubik come to mind.


You are correct, the Beyonders never showed themselves, but they were referenced to back in the 1980s. Their existence drove the High Evolutionary nearly insane.

It was sort of speculated during the Kubik/Kosmos tours that the Celestials were actually the Beyonders, or perhaps originated from the same place. This was when the Celestials were considered fantastically more powerful than they later turned out to be. Back when the One Above All, the Celestial, was thought to be the Living Tribunal's boss.


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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,908


I do not recall them being a race at that point. I may be mistaken but the original Beyonder made a point that he was lonely. I may not be remember SW2 well enough. I know the example you are pointing out but just from what I generally remember the Beyonder initially was saying that he was a reality to himself. He found this other place.

Not disagreeing that there were references, just from the first SWs I seem to remember that he was unique. In SW2 I remember similar comments, but I do not remember it anywhere near as well.

The Celestials were pretty hot in that period for sure. But if one goes from the SW2 (ignoring the Michael Jackson look) all the cosmic entities were begging MM for help. So at that point even the abstract entities and the Living Tribunal were begging MM for help.

With the tour in question that you reference it seemed to set things more into the standard method. Cubes were below Celestials, but were also below other beings.

Although that starts to get into one of my rants or areas of confusion. Seems to me that any reality warping thing is already contending with Eternity directly. Being that he is reality. So a high scale one is by definition defeating Eternity and could be argued in some respects to be more powerful. A strange thought but one that is sort of a consequence of abstracts and reality warping.




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Norvell


Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 2,113



    Quote:
    I do not recall them being a race at that point. I may be mistaken but the original Beyonder made a point that he was lonely. I may not be remember SW2 well enough. I know the example you are pointing out but just from what I generally remember the Beyonder initially was saying that he was a reality to himself. He found this other place.


The original Beyonder was not originally associated with the Beyonders. This association was made with the Beyonder retcon, from Secret Wars III (Fantastic Four #319), that the true Beyonders allowed energy from their reality to enter the main Marvel Multiverse. They did this under the guidance of the Great Powers (mostly Eternity, Living Tribunal, Order and Chaos).

You can actually follow the explanation in the 1986(?) or maybe 1989 OHOTMU, and to some extent in the following Fantastic Four annuals. It's a bit convoluted, but interesting. I am now unsure how much of it is relevant. I have not read much of the current Beyonders events.







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Golem


Member Since: Wed Dec 20, 2017
Posts: 24


exactly, simply stating that stranger bond doesn't mean stronger bond.


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Norvell


Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 2,113



    Quote:
    exactly, simply stating that stranger bond doesn't mean stronger bond.


Not necessarily, I agree. My point was that to someone manipulating molecules, the peculiarity of those molecules could cause a problem. We know originally the Molecule Man couldn't manipulate organic matter.

I get your point, and I agree with it. Just trying to provide some context for the idea that 'strange' could be problematic.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,714




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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
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Golem


Member Since: Wed Dec 20, 2017
Posts: 24


Yeah, I get it, that's fine. I also seem to recall MM also commented something about the mystical nature of mjolnir's molecules. I think I'll just have to check the book.

EDIT:

Oh, I've found a scan:
http://imgbox.com/NG4eV94t


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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,908





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