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Johnk

According to the film script Thor was beating the Hulk before the Grandmaster intervention.

Member Since: Thu Sep 07, 2017
Posts: 8



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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,847


Not sure there is much debate about that really. Thor was for sure winning when the fight was stopped. I was not entirely clear as to how much more Hulk could take. Meaning how many more blows but it was pretty clear that it was a matter of time in my view.




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MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 2,100



    Quote:
    Not sure there is much debate about that really. Thor was for sure winning when the fight was stopped. I was not entirely clear as to how much more Hulk could take. Meaning how many more blows but it was pretty clear that it was a matter of time in my view.


Agreed. I think he is mentioning it because some Hulk fans deny this.

That said...I think personally the Hulk has the capacity to defeat Thor...though my money is on Thor for most versions.


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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,847


He does for sure. Really, IMO, this sort of balances things in the movies. In Avengers I think that hulk was winning towards the end of the fight. This is the flip.

They both have a fight with a lean in their favor.




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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 767



    Quote:
    He does for sure. Really, IMO, this sort of balances things in the movies. In Avengers I think that hulk was winning towards the end of the fight. This is the flip.



    Quote:
    They both have a fight with a lean in their favor.


In Avengers, keep in mind the environment and conditions they were fighting in. When your aboard a Shield-Helicarrier floating thousands of feet in the air, Thor's hands are tied due to civilians dying on-board and on the ground. Hulk doesn't care about any of that, does he?

Also keep in mind, Thor has a warrior code (not to kill mortals he's sworn to protect (Banner is at risk here, and certainly not a fellow Avenger) while the Hulk ALWAYS fights with no restraints usually giving him an upfront advantage.




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Kaos


Member Since: Wed May 15, 2013
Posts: 291






"I say thee nay, base villain!"
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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 18,300


Would have been interesting, as Thor was then tapping into his own godforce lightning powers, while the Hulk had yet to really "Hulk out"


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 18,300


Thor should beat the Hulk when he fights smart and uses his full power set, but probably is he seems to always make it a slugfest, and Greenie doers not lose those type of fights...


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A Friend from Work


Member Since: Mon Jul 24, 2017
Posts: 23


I wasn't aware there was any debate about this. Thor was clearly winning that fight. It was so decisive I never even felt the need to talk about it on a forum.




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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,847



    Quote:

      Quote:
      He does for sure. Really, IMO, this sort of balances things in the movies. In Avengers I think that hulk was winning towards the end of the fight. This is the flip.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        They both have a fight with a lean in their favor.



    Quote:
    In Avengers, keep in mind the environment and conditions they were fighting in. When your aboard a Shield-Helicarrier floating thousands of feet in the air, Thor's hands are tied due to civilians dying on-board and on the ground. Hulk doesn't care about any of that, does he?


He did care when he was in his right mind. And no civilians were really hurt in that fight or in immediate danger. At least once the fight started they cleared out. The guy in the jet is the only one in any danger and he ended up fine.

One could argue, that it would have been in Thor's best interest in getting Hulk off of the thing if your case was true.

Given the control from the staff, or influence, we do hear that Thor is bosting of downing Hulk if Banner goes out of control. To me, in context, it seems more like Thor wanted to beat Hulk too. Although Thor was more heroic in saving Black Widow.


    Quote:
    Also keep in mind, Thor has a warrior code (not to kill mortals he's sworn to protect (Banner is at risk here, and certainly not a fellow Avenger) while the Hulk ALWAYS fights with no restraints usually giving him an upfront advantage.


To a point, but that would also force us to ignore Thor's quote about putting a stop to Hulk's rampage. He likely cares somewhat about Banner but I do not see much holding back in that fight.


It was a back and forth but it is hard to reason in any way that Hulk was not winning in the end. The reasons may vary but Hulk was winning in the end. Thor did not seem that hurt though. Hulk seemed more dinged up in his Ragnarok battle with Thor.






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58brb


Member Since: Mon Feb 27, 2017
Posts: 49


I think both of your replies to this are close to spot on with exception that Hulk was already "hulkin out" from time he entered arena. Thor is much more of a warrior, and you are right that his powerset should give him the edge. The comics maybe much different as Hulks powers and abilities have grown greater over the years, Thors have been greatly reduced. Both their battles were hilights of movies for myself, I kind of liked they both had some what winners but really seemed to be draws.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 18,300


The Hulk saw Thor as his friend, so do not think was going max effort, and was not being shown doing the madder stronger think yet.

Still think Thor would be able to deal with him, but has to cut loose all out...


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 18,300


Hulk clearly was superior at start, and when Thor got into his lightning force, was going ahead, but Hulk yet to show off madder stronger thing!


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58brb


Member Since: Mon Feb 27, 2017
Posts: 49


I believe it mad him even angrier, Hulk at lower level would not cause Thor to need to go all out. Hulk is nowhere near the combatant thor is, had Thor chosen to hit him with a bolt of lightning such as he hit Hela with would have ended the match earlier I believe, still has as fun.


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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 767



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        He does for sure. Really, IMO, this sort of balances things in the movies. In Avengers I think that hulk was winning towards the end of the fight. This is the flip.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          They both have a fight with a lean in their favor.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        In Avengers, keep in mind the environment and conditions they were fighting in. When your aboard a Shield-Helicarrier floating thousands of feet in the air, Thor's hands are tied due to civilians dying on-board and on the ground. Hulk doesn't care about any of that, does he?



    Quote:
    He did care when he was in his right mind. And no civilians were really hurt in that fight or in immediate danger. At least once the fight started they cleared out. The guy in the jet is the only one in any danger and he ended up fine.


Not much to say here really. It's pretty evident if the Hulk is going to chase Black Widow with the non-debatable intent to harm her, when she did nothing (other than make eye-contact) to provoke him or to incite his violence, all civilians on-board the Helicarrier were in extreme danger.


    Quote:
    One could argue, that it would have been in Thor's best interest in getting Hulk off of the thing if your case was true.


Yes. The issue I had with that scenario is when Hulk went after the jet pilot and Thor was no where to be found. The pilot was lucky to escape alive.


    Quote:
    Given the control from the staff, or influence, we do hear that Thor is bosting of downing Hulk if Banner goes out of control. To me, in context, it seems more like Thor wanted to beat Hulk too. Although Thor was more heroic in saving Black Widow.


I don't recall Thor boasting about stopping a rampaging Hulk. When did this occur?


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Also keep in mind, Thor has a warrior code (not to kill mortals he's sworn to protect (Banner is at risk here, and certainly not a fellow Avenger) while the Hulk ALWAYS fights with no restraints usually giving him an upfront advantage.



    Quote:
    To a point, but that would also force us to ignore Thor's quote about putting a stop to Hulk's rampage. He likely cares somewhat about Banner but I do not see much holding back in that fight.


At the beginning of the fight (just like in Ragnarok) Thor is clearly going out of his way to talk to the Hulk (despite being a warrior born), to calm him down, to reason with him there is no need for violence, that he's a friend. That's not holding back to you?

Even when Thor is forced to defend himself (Yes defend himself, because the Hulk won't listen and is trying to take his head off), Thor most likely hits Hulk with just enough force (in his mind) to knock him out or daze him to the point where he can be reasoned with (as in Ragnarok).

My point is Thor isn't trying to injure the Hulk. The same can't be said on the other end.

That's why Hulk always has the upfront advantage. He is the aggressor that is never concerned with wreckage to surroundings or injuries/lives of civilians. Thor, being the hero must take those things into account by minimizing, not adding to the carnage. In Avengers 2, Stark is clearly doing the same. Trying to use only enough force to stop him without injuring him.


    Quote:

    It was a back and forth but it is hard to reason in any way that Hulk was not winning in the end. The reasons may vary but Hulk was winning in the end. Thor did not seem that hurt though. Hulk seemed more dinged up in his Ragnarok battle with Thor.


I will agree with you Hulk WAS WINNING because he had the advantage of fighting on a Helicarrier thousands of feet in the atmosphere and if it's damaged (Thor knows this), would jeopardize the lives of all on board and possibly a heavily populated major U.S. city.

There is no-way Thor can go all out under those circumstances. If he does, the end result will be more catastrophic than what the Hulk would do on his own.




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Odin's Eye


Member Since: Wed Jul 19, 2017
Posts: 56


I didn't need the article to tell that Thor easily won the arena fight against Hulk. Remember, Thor told Hulk that he didn't want to hurt him. He even tried to calm him down before Hulk suckered Thor. He hit Thor with everything he had only to have Thor, finally having enough, beat the living heck out of Hulk. There is no doubt with regard to the winner of this fight. And the winner of this fight is Thor!


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Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 215



    Quote:
    Hulk clearly was superior at start, and when Thor got into his lightning force, was going ahead, but Hulk yet to show off madder stronger thing!


And this is why Thor fans get frustrated with Hulk fans and their green-tinted vision on things.

There's nothing true about this statement and yet Hulks fans persist.

Not surprising at all.....


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Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 215



    Quote:
    I didn't need the article to tell that Thor easily won the arena fight against Hulk. Remember, Thor told Hulk that he didn't want to hurt him. He even tried to calm him down before Hulk suckered Thor. He hit Thor with everything he had only to have Thor, finally having enough, beat the living heck out of Hulk. There is no doubt with regard to the winner of this fight. And the winner of this fight is Thor!


Agreed.

Hulk fans and their green-tinted vision will tell you otherwise.


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Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 215



    Quote:
    I believe it mad him even angrier, Hulk at lower level would not cause Thor to need to go all out. Hulk is nowhere near the combatant thor is, had Thor chosen to hit him with a bolt of lightning such as he hit Hela with would have ended the match earlier I believe, still has as fun.


Agreed,

The problem is that Hulk fans just cannot fathom the Hulk losing in physical combat. Especially to his greatest rival.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,698



    Quote:
    The Hulk saw Thor as his friend, so do not think was going max effort, and was not being shown doing the madder stronger think yet.


This is just flat out wrong. Hulk didn't see Thor as his friend at all in the fight. At no point did Hulk hesitate in attacking Thor from the start while Thor is holding back and trying to calm Hulk down for most of the fight.




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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,698



    Quote:
    Hulk clearly was superior at start


Only because Thor wasn't even trying to fight the Hulk at the start.


    Quote:
    and when Thor got into his lightning force, was going ahead, but Hulk yet to show off madder stronger thing!


Huh? Hulk had plenty of opportunities to get madder. The first time Thor finally decides to fight back, he smashes Hulk across the arena wall. Hulk should have been pretty mad after that. Thor completely lowers his defenses and gives Hulk an opening that leads to Hulk ragdolling Thor. Hulk was pretty mad there. Thor simply shrugged off all of Hulk's attacks pretty quickly, which Hulk wasn't able to do against Thor's attacks.



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Visitor


Member Since: Sun Jul 30, 2017
Posts: 767



    Quote:

      Quote:
      I believe it mad him even angrier, Hulk at lower level would not cause Thor to need to go all out. Hulk is nowhere near the combatant thor is, had Thor chosen to hit him with a bolt of lightning such as he hit Hela with would have ended the match earlier I believe, still has as fun.



    Quote:
    Agreed,



    Quote:
    The problem is that Hulk fans just cannot fathom the Hulk losing in physical combat. Especially to his greatest rival.


Especially without Mjolnir.




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jazzbass6


Member Since: Tue Sep 30, 2014
Posts: 667


He's not a Hulk fan in the sense you are referring to.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 18,300


I am a SUPERMAN fan, so would tend to see this more objective than either Thor/Hulk fanbase does!


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BMarvel


Member Since: Fri Nov 17, 2017
Posts: 123


You all do realize that this Hulk was motivated by admiration and applause? This made him unable to achieve his staple powers of getting angrier and stronger and harder to battle with. This Hulk was trying to god on to a comfortable living as a legend in the ring with his custom hot tub toys and room like a 10 year old???
Thor’s better showing was pretty hollow considering that he was in his own self titled movie and basically received a power up pretty much.
Just Saying


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Member Since: Mon Feb 27, 2017
Posts: 49


How can you objectively claim the ground of being more objective when you have posted that Hulk was not enraged at beginning? Being a Supes fan does not give you a superpower even he does not have, that is can even Superman tell what state Hulk would be feeling. I do enjoy the postings on this topic as I enjoy all of the discussions, thanks.


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Toe Rag


Member Since: Mon May 14, 2012
Posts: 683


Yes, I do believe you are more objective. I am a Hulk fan and felt this was a normal back and forth battle like they almost always have. I do not have any qualms in saying that yes, Thor was winning when the Grandmaster interfered. But winning does not equal having won. The Hulk took damage like no one else in the film and he kept on going. In the "Incredible Hulk" film, he was losing the whole time against the Abomination, and then he won.

Also, this wasn't the true Planet Hulk storyline. After being on Skaar for a long time, Hulk became stronger and stronger. In "Thor: Ragnarok," he was not shown as getting stronger as he was getting angrier. The MCU does not follow the comic book universe. Except, of course, with your Superman. He was ass-kicking in "Justice League."


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Oliva


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,459



    Quote:
    https://www.themarysue.com/thor-ragnarok-script/


The Grandmaster wouldn't have zapped Thor with that gadget unless he wasn't ABSOLUTELY SURE that the Hulk was about to loose that match. Why exactly would he choose to take such a radical decision at that particular Crucial moment during the match to incapacitate Thor if it were otherwise? If he thought even for a split second that the Hulk would've potentially mounted a comeback- he would not have chosen to take such a radical decision. Moreover, the Grandmaster clearly saw that Thor gave the Hulk AMPLE opportunities to take him out- and he just couldn't do this. The Hulk did to Thor the rag doll thingy he did to Loki, and repeatively pounded on Thor's head with both fists at full strength wih the intent to crush Thor's skull in, and Thor kept coming at a dazed Hulk unhurt fill with the power of lightning itself. Thus, the Grandmaster had no recourse but to take out Thor while the Hulk was still standing so that the crowd wouldn't suspect that the outcome of the match was manipulated somehow.

Now, some people still insist that the Hulk wasn't mad enough, and thus he was holding back. However, seeing how the Hulk used Thor as a rag doll to break the ground (as he did the same to Loki, but probably much worse), tried to kill him with an axe when he threw it right at him, and try to crush his skull using both fists- I would say these people have serious problem dealing with Reality..

In conclusion, Thor's power increase EXPONENTIALLY towards the very end of the Ragnorak movie. Thor hit Hela with a Gigantic Lightning bolt enough to send her through many tons of concrete and steel at Super-Sonic speed. Also, Thor destroyed part of the Bifrost with a Single blow that was super-charged with lightning; whereas it took quite a few blows from Mjolnir to accomplish the same. This version of Thor would defeat the Hulk and all the combatants in that Junky piece of trash world w/o much effort. Hitting all of them with multiple lightning bolts coming from everywhere, and super-charging his fists and weapons- and rididing the lightning.. Heck, even the entire roster of the JLA would be in serious trouble, and how someone like the Flash could even touch Thor- when Thor can produce lightning volts around his person that are vastly greater than what the Flas could possibly generate.


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Toe Rag


Member Since: Mon May 14, 2012
Posts: 683


He was mad, that's for certain, but enraged? Not even close. Plus being the Savage Hulk meant Banner was still holding him back. If you read the original Planet Hulk/World Breaker storylines, you would know that Banner was in agreement with the Hulk, allowing Hulk to hit strength levels never seen before. Look, you guys had a great movie. I liked it. Enjoy it and stop worrying about the Hulk.


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58brb


Member Since: Mon Feb 27, 2017
Posts: 49


I did read planet hulk and in the comic it is portrayed that way, what all the fans of the comics miss, the movies are not the comics. Of course yes Banner controlled hulk, he only smashed out because he was putting on a show, in his five year old mind. I enjoy the movies but it is not Thor fans that get bent out of shape, it is clearly fans that are only hulk fans. I can point out they also got the hat way with hulks loss to Hulkbuster armor. The fact Thor was beating him in his arena, without his hammer, and hulk has to be saved by Grandmaster really bothers hulk fans. I cannot understand this as it is a Thor movie so he should not get best out ome for his fans.


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bouken red


Member Since: Sat Jul 15, 2017
Posts: 369


Your claim of objectivity rings hollow when in the Battle boards, you constantly post topics of "Thor vs ____" and you always pick the opponent to beat Thor....always. In your sick mind, you cannot have Thor win anything, because it will somehow negate what you argue against the character in defending your favorite.


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