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BattleLord


Member Since: Tue Jul 25, 2017
Posts: 37


Just watched the movie again...what boggles the mind is that Hela not only stopped mjolnir mid flight with one hand (soooo she is worthy?) but she was also able to apparently physically crush it.

That puts her in rare air if you put her back in the comics universe. Thor, Hulk, even Odin couldn't physically crush mjolnir with one hand like a ancient frozen beer can.

What's interesting is in the next scene she has Thor by the throat. If she can crush enchanted uru , Thors throat seems a soft target by comparison.

Has anyone, short of the Mangog ever shown that kind of physical power?

We are to assume that because she owned mjolnir in the past that the worthiness enchantment Odin put on it in the first movie is invalid and that's why she was able to hold it...or that she was so powerful she could negate Odins enchantment.

Poor Thor....in the movies, his sister breaks his weapon....in the comics his ex gf takes his weapon.

I think he can be and should be BOTH god of hammers and god of Thunder/lightning.



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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,121


I imagine that Odin could destroy it in the movies if he had a mind to. Just never had a reason. It also showed in the film that Hela once wielded the hammer before the worthy enchantment was a thing.

Hela is also probably acting on other powers other than just purely physical but who knows for sure?




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Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 216



    Quote:
    Just watched the movie again...what boggles the mind is that Hela not only stopped mjolnir mid flight with one hand (soooo she is worthy?) but she was also able to apparently physically crush it.



    Quote:
    That puts her in rare air if you put her back in the comics universe. Thor, Hulk, even Odin couldn't physically crush mjolnir with one hand like a ancient frozen beer can.



    Quote:
    What's interesting is in the next scene she has Thor by the throat. If she can crush enchanted uru , Thors throat seems a soft target by comparison.



    Quote:
    Has anyone, short of the Mangog ever shown that kind of physical power?



    Quote:
    We are to assume that because she owned mjolnir in the past that the worthiness enchantment Odin put on it in the first movie is invalid and that's why she was able to hold it...or that she was so powerful she could negate Odins enchantment.



    Quote:
    Poor Thor....in the movies, his sister breaks his weapon....in the comics his ex gf takes his weapon.



    Quote:
    I think he can be and should be BOTH god of hammers and god of Thunder/lightning.


Look at the movie again. She didn't "crush" it. She stopped Mjolnir but she wasn't "holding" it Per Se (look at it closely). I believe she caused it to "explode" as opposed to crushing it.


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makkari1


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,554



    Quote:
    Just watched the movie again...what boggles the mind is that Hela not only stopped mjolnir mid flight with one hand (soooo she is worthy?) but she was also able to apparently physically crush it.
The worthy part of the enchantment left me in doubt. Clearly Hela is not worthy to lift Mjolnir. When looking at the scene it appeared that she stopped Mjolnir forward motion than hold it up. It could also be that Odin's enchantment was overridden by her. For me its not clear if she shattered the hammer by stopping it, or caused a energy buildup feed back shattering the hammer or outright squeezing it to crush it. If she had the physical power to crush it then she should have snapped Thor's neck. 


    Quote:
    That puts her in rare air if you put her back in the comics universe. Thor, Hulk, even Odin couldn't physically crush mjolnir with one hand like a ancient frozen beer can.
Movie Hela is different animal than comic book Hela. In comics no one has ever physical crushed Mjolnir in their hands. It was either cut by another weapon or destroyed by energy attacks or feed backs. Thor did break Mjolnir when striking King Bor so it can be broken.  


    Quote:
    What's interesting is in the next scene she has Thor by the throat. If she can crush enchanted uru , Thors throat seems a soft target by comparison.
See above but yes she should have broken Thor's neck but she didn't so this throws in doubt whether she really crushed it physically or caused a energy explosion (movies are inconsistent like the comics.) 


    Quote:
    Has anyone, short of the Mangog ever shown that kind of physical power?
Mangog crushed Ultimate Universe Mjolnir but never 616 Mjolnir. We do know that Mjolnir was broken when Thor hit King Bor so I guess its possible to break it that way.


    Quote:
    We are to assume that because she owned mjolnir in the past that the worthiness enchantment Odin put on it in the first movie is invalid and that's why she was able to hold it...or that she was so powerful she could negate Odins enchantment.
It think Odin's children can overcome his enchantments if they are powerful enough. Hela is older and more powerful than Thor and I assume as Thor gets older he to can cast his own enchantments.
   

    Quote:
    Poor Thor....in the movies, his sister breaks his weapon....in the comics his ex gf takes his weapon.
Lately Thor has been humiliated in comics and the movie. In the comics Thor lost a arm, and hammer a name, and his clothes. In the movies his lost his hammer, his eye, and his kingdom. 




    Quote:
    I think he can be and should be BOTH god of hammers and god of Thunder/lightning.

Its sad that Marvel is trying to separate Thor from Mjolnir especially since the hammer is an essential part of the myth.




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Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,049




    Quote:
    Look at the movie again. She didn't "crush" it. She stopped Mjolnir but she wasn't "holding" it Per Se (look at it closely). I believe she caused it to "explode" as opposed to crushing it.


You can clearly see her fingers sinking in here (50 sec into)...



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Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 216



    Quote:


      Quote:
      Look at the movie again. She didn't "crush" it. She stopped Mjolnir but she wasn't "holding" it Per Se (look at it closely). I believe she caused it to "explode" as opposed to crushing it.



    Quote:
    You can clearly see her fingers sinking in here (50 sec into)...


Just her thumb. Her other 4 fingers weren't wrapped around the head, they were on "top" of the hammer. The very nature the way she "held" Mjolnir in place shows that she couldn't "crush" it Per Se. Her destroying his hammer was most likely a "power" move as opposed to a strength move.



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Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 216



    Quote:
    Just watched the movie again...what boggles the mind is that Hela not only stopped mjolnir mid flight with one hand (soooo she is worthy?) but she was also able to apparently physically crush it.
The worthy part of the enchantment left me in doubt. Clearly Hela is not worthy to lift Mjolnir. When looking at the scene it appeared that she stopped Mjolnir forward motion than hold it up. It could also be that Odin's enchantment was overridden by her. For me its not clear if she shattered the hammer by stopping it, or caused a energy buildup feed back shattering the hammer or outright squeezing it to crush it. If she had the physical power to crush it then she should have snapped Thor's neck.

This.

My very thoughts in the other post.



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Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,049



Technically, we do not see all fingers so we cant say it is just the thumb. But if the thumb was able to sink in it does suggest something...



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astrike


Member Since: Sun Feb 18, 2018
Posts: 8


Enchantment was weaken due to Odin's death. Hence enable Hela with same Asgardian magic to destroy Mjolnir.
Odin force was not fully Thor force which i believe still resides back to asgard to be chosen to wield it.
Hela also in movie derives her power from Asgard.


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Vidar


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,450



    Quote:
    Just watched the movie again...what boggles the mind is that Hela not only stopped mjolnir mid flight with one hand (soooo she is worthy?) but she was also able to apparently physically crush it.



    Quote:
    That puts her in rare air if you put her back in the comics universe. Thor, Hulk, even Odin couldn't physically crush mjolnir with one hand like a ancient frozen beer can.



    Quote:
    What's interesting is in the next scene she has Thor by the throat. If she can crush enchanted uru , Thors throat seems a soft target by comparison.



    Quote:
    Has anyone, short of the Mangog ever shown that kind of physical power?



    Quote:
    We are to assume that because she owned mjolnir in the past that the worthiness enchantment Odin put on it in the first movie is invalid and that's why she was able to hold it...or that she was so powerful she could negate Odins enchantment.



    Quote:
    Poor Thor....in the movies, his sister breaks his weapon....in the comics his ex gf takes his weapon.



    Quote:
    I think he can be and should be BOTH god of hammers and god of Thunder/lightning.


Thor has allowed himself to be captured to learn more about Surtur and Ragnarok. Surtur and Odin both know Hela is in ascendency, not least because Odin was banished from Asgard by Loki and somehow rendered almost powerless. This, or other reasons speed Odin's demise. Hela, as Thor's older sister is Odin's firstborn and has inherited the Odin Power. It was said she draws her power from Asgard, so for me, this the most likely explanation. In its humorous tone the film really plays down what Loki has done.
Vidar



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A Friend from Work


Member Since: Mon Jul 24, 2017
Posts: 25


Hela drew her power from Asgard itself. Surtur was the only one capable of really doing anything about it with Odin gone.


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bd2999


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,121


They said the same for Thor. Which has made me wonder what happens to Thor's powers now that Asgard is gone. Odin's comments seem to make me think that they will be what they are but it is left fairly open at the end of the movie based on the dialogue.

It is fair that Odin dying may have had some impact on it, but not entirely sure it would have mattered too much. She was also familiar with the weapon. And the whole power of Thor and worthy things were added later.




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BattleLord


Member Since: Tue Jul 25, 2017
Posts: 37


That is a very good explanation for her incredible display of power....her own considerable might plus that inherited power from Odin.

THAT would have been great in explanation in the flick for here complete domination of any and everyone, as well as explaining why Odin would send Valkyrie on what would have been a suicide mission to try and kill her when she is displaying that type of might.

....and that Loki was the unwitting "reason" for the death of Odin and her increased might and the resultant loss of so many Asgardian lives would have given more weight to his possible change of heart at the end of the flick and going forward. (To some degree at least, can't have the cheetah FULLY change his spots)



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Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 216



    Quote:

    Technically, we do not see all fingers so we cant say it is just the thumb. But if the thumb was able to sink in it does suggest something...


Yes, you CAN see the other 4 fingers. Look at sec 36 through 39. It's very clear that those fingers were on the top head of Mjolnir, not wrapped around it, thus letting you know the hammer was not crushed BETWEEN 4 fingers and thumb. No strength feat here.

Which mean most likely Hela exploded the hammer from the inside.



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Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,049




    Quote:

      Quote:

      Technically, we do not see all fingers so we cant say it is just the thumb. But if the thumb was able to sink in it does suggest something...



    Quote:
    Yes, you CAN see the other 4 fingers. Look at sec 36 through 39. It's very clear that those fingers were on the top head of Mjolnir, not wrapped around it, thus letting you know the hammer was not crushed BETWEEN 4 fingers and thumb. No strength feat here.



    Quote:
    Which mean most likely Hela exploded the hammer from the inside.

I'm not going to argue any more about this because I don't see how you can get the idea the hammer was not crushed when you clearly see her thumb sinking in the hammer. 

If they wanted to show the hammer destroyed from the inside they failed miserably since the first sign of damage is the hammer caving in, then exploding once it is shown compromised. 

You can infuse any fanfic you want, but IDK why you need it in the first place with what you are shown.




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Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 216


You know what?

If it's that important to you that Hela physically crushed the hammer, even though I and others tried to explain otherwise why that wasn't the case, then I'm not gonna argue the case; there are more important things to do in life. Go for it. You win.

Enjoy yourself.



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Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,049



It has nothing to do with importance. I frankly do not care at all. What bothers me is the accuracy of the claim. What is shown isn't what you try to explain.

I mean, why should we ignore the thumb clearly sinking in? Any valid reason for this? 




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Thor64


Member Since: Sun Nov 05, 2017
Posts: 216



    Quote:

    It has nothing to do with importance. I frankly do not care at all. What bothers me is the accuracy of the claim. What is shown isn't what you try to explain.

    I mean, why should we ignore the thumb clearly sinking in? Any valid reason for this? 



Wow. Just...wow. *whistles* I'll try to explain this as basic as possible....

In order to crush something, it must be between two points such as thumb and forefinger(s). Can we agree with that basic principle?

Mjolnir was NOT between two points. The thumb was on the side whereas the other 4 fingers was on top of the head, NOT on the other side of the hammer. It is VERY clear if you pause the scene. Go ahead, look, I'll wait....

(Now, if you can acknowledge this simple point, keep reading. Otherwise, stop right here.)

As Makkari1 stated earlier----"When
looking at the scene it appeared that she stopped Mjolnir forward
motion than hold it up
. It could also be that Odin's enchantment was
overridden by her. For me its not clear if she shattered the hammer by
stopping it, or caused a energy buildup feed back shattering the hammer
or outright squeezing it to crush it. If she had the physical power to
crush it then she should have snapped Thor's neck
."


Since it wasn't crushed, most likely Hela used HER own power to trigger some type of mystical energy backwash causing Mjolnir to explode.

I can't break this down any more than this.





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Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,049



IMO, you argue on a false premise (while needlessly using a condescending tone at that): That there need to be two opposing fingers to explain the thumb being able to clearly sink in the hammer. You do not. You need an opposing force, which the hammer trust against the palm of Hela can provide well enough for the thumb.

BTW, even if we look at the video second by second at 0,25 speed, we at no moment see all fingers and how they all are distributed and we very clearly see the thumb sink in.  

At 36 sec, the hammer hit her open hand. 
From 36 to 49 sec, the hammer movement struggle vs Hela.
At 49 sec, she begin to sink her thumb in it (Regardless of how your explain it). 
From 49 to 51, the thumb sink in deeper and more cracks appear.
At 51 sec, lightnings erupt from Mjolnir.
51 sec + Mjolnir is rubble.

You can argue whatever you like, but one fact remains: She is sinking her thumb in the hammer. Why show that if you want to give us the idea there is an energy build-up that is responsible for what follows?

I will admit that it is entirely possible that you are right about the intention behind the scene. Maybe the author intended it to be exactly what you say. However, I will point out that if it is the case, they did a very poor job depicting that. The sinking thumb doesn't help carry what you try to go for.

What you get from that scene is Hela completely overpowering the hammer and the enchantment in every way possible.






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Pirc


Member Since: Thu Feb 22, 2018
Posts: 1


In Thor 3, Hela is shown wielding Mjolnir prior to Thor, and Thus prior to Odin's enchantment. Therefore, she did not need to be worthy to wield the hammer, as her bond arose vis a vis provenance.

When Thor threw Mjolnir, Hela stopped it with her will as a prior possessor of the weapon. You can see she is not physically pressing against or crushing the hammer. She is willing it to stop by her prior bond to the hammer, while Thor is willing it to strike her. The force of the two wills upon the hammer to do 2 diametrically opposed actions forces the hammer to implode upon itself.


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