X-Universe >> View Thread

Author
Iron Man Unit 007


Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,967


https://www.cbr.com/popular-hated-x-men/

I find it difficult to argue with any of the entries on this list.

Wolverine, yes sheer over exposure has indeed been a problem for him and many other characters over the years.

Deadpool: yep, I agree wholeheartedly.

Prof X. agreed.

Jubilee: oh yes, very much agreed.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 7
Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,278



    Quote:
    https://www.cbr.com/popular-hated-x-men/



    Quote:
    I find it difficult to argue with any of the entries on this list.



    Quote:
    Wolverine, yes sheer over exposure has indeed been a problem for him and many other characters over the years.



    Quote:
    Deadpool: yep, I agree wholeheartedly.



    Quote:
    Prof X. agreed.



    Quote:
    Jubilee: oh yes, very much agreed.


On the other hand I would disagree with quite a few of the entries on the list as I don't think they actually conform to the headline, which is

"Popular X-Men That Everybody Secretly Hates"

For instance I have my doubts as to whether Pixie ever was popular enough to merit appearing on this list. If characters of her importance can make the list, then I have to wonder why Havok (remember the pretty much universally negative reactions to his public statements as leader of the Unity Team in Uncanny Avengers vol. 1), Hope Summers (quite a few fans hated her for not being Jean Grey and for the "unmerited" central role she got to play as the Mutant Messiah) or the Dazzler (weighed down by her original disco look, then reinvented many times without lasting success) aren't on it.

Wolverine is on the list for "overexposure" (a complaint we've been hearing since the late 1980s, really), which really boils down to a faction of X-fandom hating him for being the most popular X-Man. But clearly treating him as the biggest star and having him appear as a guest star all over the Marvel Universe proved commercially viable and continues to do so to this day, so clearly not "everybody" hates Logan but only a minority.

A lot of hate against characters tends to be generated by fans of other characters or relationships (many fans of Rogue/Gambit tend to be extremely negative about any other character Rogue got involved with after breaking up with Gambit), and this trend has been encouraged by Marvel, who in the past decade or two liked to introduce divisive storylines in order to generate controversy and free publicity (in the 1980s it was still possible to like both Wolverine and Cyclops, at least since Schism they encourage the mindset that if you like one of them you have to dislike the other). Also sometimes creators had a tendency to tear down characters in order to build up others at their expense. This happened with Professor X (in order to establish the "power couple" of Scott and Emma as the best X-leaders of all times), but also e.g. with Pixie, who was portrayed as the "better teleporter" vis-à-vis Nightcrawler, which of course led to a backlash from Kurt's not inconsiderable fandom.

Why is Iceman on this list, but not Angel or the Beast? Much of the complaints that are directed at Bobby (and Jean) also apply to Warren and Hank (so could the unstated real reason for including him but not the other two be his recent "outing" as gay?). I'm not even sure if finding Bobby a boring character really amounts to "hating"; I'd say that the Beast actually caused much greater animosity because of various morally questionable decisions, first and foremost for bringing the teen O5 to the present (one of the most divisive aspects of Bendis' tenure). For me the Beast is the most glaring omission on this list.

You'll not be surprised that I very much disagree about Rogue, but since tastes will vary, I'll limit myself to pointing out that the dislike for the movie Rogue came mostly from fans of the comics Rogue. That Rogue was cut out of "Days of Future Past" does not show that Rogue is a bad character, merely that she was badly adapted in a simplified, weakened way for the films that reduced her to utter passivity most of the time and left out some of ther most fascinating aspects (her past as a villain, her family connection to Mystique).





Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 7
Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    https://www.cbr.com/popular-hated-x-men/



    Quote:
    I find it difficult to argue with any of the entries on this list.



    Quote:
    Wolverine, yes sheer over exposure has indeed been a problem for him and many other characters over the years.



    Quote:
    Deadpool: yep, I agree wholeheartedly.



    Quote:
    Prof X. agreed.



    Quote:
    Jubilee: oh yes, very much agreed.


Well I don't like Wolverine or Cable. Jubilee isn't very well regarded either by me.







Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 7
The Black Guardian 

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,302


Wolverine: I really don't hate him. I just haven't liked what most writers have done with him since about 1993.

Cyclops: Yup.

Pixie: Yup.

Gambit: Yup.

Emma: I don't hate. I just don't like her as a remotely heroic character.

Jubilee: Hate is too strong a word, but nothing about her registers with me. To me, she will always be the vastly inferior Kitty replacement-- a bubblegum-chewing mallrat with sparkle powers. Mkay. Not what I'm ever interested in reading about. IMO, her depowered New Warriors and vampire stuff were a big improvement, but it still doesn't endear her to me.

Deadpool: He is not cool. He is rarely funny. He is not interesting. And really doesn't do interesting things. The only way I can accept him is to not take him seriously at all. At which point, he's worthless. IMO

The rest of the list I adore.

Too bad they didn't include Fantomex and Doop. And sorta Boom Boom (she's too much like Jubilee, but her Meltdown makeover was a slight improvement to me), although she's not even popular enough to rank on any list.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 10
America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,841


I'm surprised Rogue, Jean, Kitty, and Colossus are on that list.

Heck, if they had a comic that was just those four, I would probably buy it. Sort of a reverse Fantastic Four. I don't know why those four would form a team, but hey, it makes as much sense as the X-Men: Red line-up as far as I can tell so far.









Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
The Black Guardian 

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,302


I was shocked to see Rogue. I know there are some Gambit fans that dislike her, but other than them, I've never really met anyone that hates her. She's no Kitty to me, but I adore her.

Jean is very often derided for being either too weak and dull on her own or being hopped up on Phoenix juice. No real shock to see her here.

Were I any bigger a Kitty fan I might explode, but I'm not really shocked. The things I love about her have been what many hate: she's sort of a now grown wunderkind and to put it nicely, she never misses an opportunity to speak her mind.

Were it not for his positive points that don't get played up very often, Colossus would be a lummox. Sadly, the things writers seem to like doing is spotlighting his ignorance and childlike behaviour (prone to tantrums). Other than this, he's just not interesting. I love the guy, and used to be a Piotr-Kitty shipper (maybe the only "ship" I've ever ridden), but I can't do it anymore.

Overall though, I'd say that "popularity breeds contempt." When anything becomes popular, it's going to gain haters. These same characters top lists of Most Loved characters, as well.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 10
America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,841



    Quote:
    Overall though, I'd say that "popularity breeds contempt." When anything becomes popular, it's going to gain haters. These same characters top lists of Most Loved characters, as well.


I guess Logan is the poster boy for this concept.

I've come to realize that I still think of Colossus, Kitty, Kurt, Ororo, and Logan in terms of one another. The relationships between these five define who they are to me. Back in the early days, those relationships were central to the comic.

I have one Wolverine statue. It also has Kitty on it. She's phasing through a Sentinel's boot. To me the most natural thing in the world was to buy a statue with both of them on it. That's how I relate to them.

I would buy a statue of the Colossus/Logan fastball special, if one existed.






Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
The Black Guardian 

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,302


I think I'm more inclined to define Kitty & Kurt in terms of Excalibur. Although I do enjoy the Kurt/Piotr/Logan buddy thing, it's more like a thing that comes once in a great while for Kurt. Attempts to reconnect Kitty and Piotr just come across as needlessly nostalgic. And I'm really getting furious about their current situation.

Ororo just has so many connections I've stopped defining her by any single ones.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 10
America's Captain 

Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,841



    Quote:
    I think I'm more inclined to define Kitty & Kurt in terms of Excalibur.


That's a good point. I tend to forget that book. I never really warmed to Captain Britain and Megan. But Rachel is a different story. I would happily add Rachel to the Kitty/Kurt/Piotr/Logan/Ororo dynamic. What a great team book that would be! In fact... see below.


    Quote:
    Although I do enjoy the Kurt/Piotr/Logan buddy thing, it's more like a thing that comes once in a great while for Kurt. Attempts to reconnect Kitty and Piotr just come across as needlessly nostalgic. And I'm really getting furious about their current situation.


I don't need Kitty and Piotr to be lovers. Just very close friends. Just as Kitty should be with Kurt, Logan, and Ororo - as well as Rachel. (The one-time physical intimacy would simply be one aspect among many of the Kitty/Piotr friendship.)

In fact - Rachel and Piotr would make an interesting couple. I know there was a moment when Kurt and Rachel seemed destined for romance. Did that ever pan out? I stopped reading the book before finding out. I don't really see any chemisty between Kurt and Rachel. But Piotr and Rachel are a very different story. The more I picture those two in my mind, the more I think they belong together.


    Quote:
    Ororo just has so many connections I've stopped defining her by any single ones.


Yet recent Marvel can never seem to put her at the very center of any comic. Near the center, yes, but never the lynch pin. For all the talk of diversity, here we have a black woman superhero who has been around since 1975, has some of the best name and face recognition of any comic book character who doesn't have a solo book, has been a staple of X-Men cartoons and video games, is as well connected in the Marvel universe as Nightwing is in the DC universe - and we get nothing. She basically has cameos in X-Men: Gold. She was the Queen of Wakanda! She was a founding member of the New X-Men! She's an Omega-level mutant! But alas, she was played in the movies by the worst possible choice of actresses, and she petered out into nothingness on film, and I guess this tainted her in the minds of Marvel editors.







Posted with Google Chrome 63.0.3239.132 on Windows 10
The Black Guardian 

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,302



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Although I do enjoy the Kurt/Piotr/Logan buddy thing, it's more like a thing that comes once in a great while for Kurt. Attempts to reconnect Kitty and Piotr just come across as needlessly nostalgic. And I'm really getting furious about their current situation.



    Quote:
    I don't need Kitty and Piotr to be lovers. Just very close friends. Just as Kitty should be with Kurt, Logan, and Ororo - as well as Rachel. (The one-time physical intimacy would simply be one aspect among many of the Kitty/Piotr friendship.)



    Quote:
    In fact - Rachel and Piotr would make an interesting couple. I know there was a moment when Kurt and Rachel seemed destined for romance. Did that ever pan out? I stopped reading the book before finding out. I don't really see any chemisty between Kurt and Rachel. But Piotr and Rachel are a very different story. The more I picture those two in my mind, the more I think they belong together.

Rachel & Kurt is panning out as we speak in X-Men Gold. I see more between them than with Piotr. I think my problem with Piotr these days is that he's totally lacking any excitement and fun. He's either being the gentle artist or the crazy masher.


    Quote:
    Ororo just has so many connections I've stopped defining her by any single ones.



    Quote:
    Yet recent Marvel can never seem to put her at the very center of any comic. Near the center, yes, but never the lynch pin. For all the talk of diversity, here we have a black woman superhero who has been around since 1975, has some of the best name and face recognition of any comic book character who doesn't have a solo book, has been a staple of X-Men cartoons and video games, is as well connected in the Marvel universe as Nightwing is in the DC universe - and we get nothing. She basically has cameos in X-Men: Gold. She was the Queen of Wakanda! She was a founding member of the New X-Men! She's an Omega-level mutant! But alas, she was played in the movies by the worst possible choice of actresses, and she petered out into nothingness on film, and I guess this tainted her in the minds of Marvel editors.

Yeah, don't get me started on the many misuses of Storm lately.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 10
Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,278



    Quote:
    I was shocked to see Rogue. I know there are some Gambit fans that dislike her, but other than them, I've never really met anyone that hates her. She's no Kitty to me, but I adore her.


I found it rather telling that they had to bring up the movie version, who is much more passive and two-dimensional character (almost much entirely defined by her inability to touch people and her romance with Iceman) compared to the much more active and multifaceted Rogue of the comics. I sometimes think that a certain type of fan wants to come up with a ten-words-or-less description of a character like "Rogue can't control her absorption power and loves Gambit" and then regard everything that's not included in that as superfluous if not a "violation of her essence".


    Quote:
    Jean is very often derided for being either too weak and dull on her own or being hopped up on Phoenix juice. No real shock to see her here.



    Quote:
    Were I any bigger a Kitty fan I might explode, but I'm not really shocked. The things I love about her have been what many hate: she's sort of a now grown wunderkind and to put it nicely, she never misses an opportunity to speak her mind.



    Quote:
    Were it not for his positive points that don't get played up very often, Colossus would be a lummox. Sadly, the things writers seem to like doing is spotlighting his ignorance and childlike behaviour (prone to tantrums). Other than this, he's just not interesting. I love the guy, and used to be a Piotr-Kitty shipper (maybe the only "ship" I've ever ridden), but I can't do it anymore.


I think it is partly due to the fact that such characters are harder to write than many people think and are easy to dismiss as naive etc. by cynics. This goes both for the "insufferable know-it-all" archetype embodied by Kitty, Lisa Simpson and Hermione Granger, as well as the "boyscout" (or in Piotr's case: "young pioneer") type of hero to which Colossus largely conforms, if not as much as Tintin, Superman, Captain Marvel (Billy Batson), Spirou and Captain America.


    Quote:
    Overall though, I'd say that "popularity breeds contempt." When anything becomes popular, it's going to gain haters. These same characters top lists of Most Loved characters, as well.


Indeed.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 57.0 on Windows 7

Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2018 Powermad Software