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Comicguy1


Member Since: Tue Apr 04, 2017
Posts: 1,275


Not that I agree with this (I quite like the character.) ,but it actually did make me chuckle a bit. And it did make me realize that Scott has done some pretty dang questionable things (If only they can do one on Xavier.). Here it is. Any thoughts?


https://www.buzzfeed.com/mccarricksean/x-reasons-why-cyclops-is-everyones-least-favo-fjmu?utm_term=.bw4qOp4ebe#.mgJLwx2V3V


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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,251



    Quote:
    Not that I agree with this (I quite like the character.) ,but it actually did make me chuckle a bit. And it did make me realize that Scott has done some pretty dang questionable things (If only they can do one on Xavier.). Here it is. Any thoughts?





It is funny, a bit like "Superdickery" (and of course after reading the comments I'm inclined to add "16. Because his fans have zero sense of humour.")

Not quite sure if one could do this with Xavier because they've done this with him in a non-ironic way in-story. But it probably would be fun to do it with some of the others.



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The Black Guardian 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,123


When it comes to BuzzFeed, this might be their article I agree most with.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    Not that I agree with this (I quite like the character.) ,but it actually did make me chuckle a bit. And it did make me realize that Scott has done some pretty dang questionable things (If only they can do one on Xavier.). Here it is. Any thoughts?





I can forgive all of that except abandoning his son.





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me


Member Since: Sat Jan 13, 2018
Posts: 18


I want to see an issue where Cable confronts Cyclops as to what a dick he is.


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America's Captain 

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Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:
    I want to see an issue where Cable confronts Cyclops as to what a dick he is.


Much as I agree with that, I really find both Cyclops and Jean very strangely non-interactive with Cable, and vice versa. Scott and Jean raised Cable. Why is there no emotional connection between any of them? I don't get it.

Frankly, it's Cable and Jean that I really want to see interact. Scott and Cable may have had agenda reasons for keeping one another at arm's length. But Jean doesn't have that sort of agenda. Or didn't. All she ever wanted to do was keep everyone who was close to her alive.








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The Black Guardian 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:
    I want to see an issue where Cable confronts Cyclops as to what a dick he is.

Couldn't really happen. Cyclops raised Cable.

And I still say Maddie deserved everything she got. She was being disgustingly abusive to Scott before he left.


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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,590




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Grey Gargoyle


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,590




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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689






    Quote:
    And I still say Maddie deserved everything she got. She was being disgustingly abusive to Scott before he left.


Hmph. Some abuse. She raised her voice because Scott had already ditched her and the baby once to retake the X-Men from Storm.







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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,251



    Quote:

      Quote:
      I want to see an issue where Cable confronts Cyclops as to what a dick he is.



    Quote:
    Much as I agree with that, I really find both Cyclops and Jean very strangely non-interactive with Cable, and vice versa. Scott and Jean raised Cable. Why is there no emotional connection between any of them? I don't get it.


Yes, that is an odd thing. IMO, on the meta level it is because this whole thing about Scott (and Jean) raising Cable in the future was a perfunctory handful of stories basically created as an excuse for Scott's "deadbeat dad" behaviour but then no writer who followed ever bothered to adapt Scott's or Cable's characterization in the light of these events. Add to this that Scott always was the coldest fish in the X-Men pond (even in the 1960s); his relationship with his brother Alex and his father are also not exactly known for their Hallmark moments. And there's of course the fact that much too often stories were structured around him so that even his bad decisions (such as his abandoning his family because Madelyne refused to be a good little doormat or cheating on Jean with Emma) were vindicated as "necessary in order to save the world".



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    I want to see an issue where Cable confronts Cyclops as to what a dick he is.


Well he can't do that. He abandoned his own son Tyler and that son went evil. Cable doesn't own the good parenting high ground.







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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:

      Quote:
      I want to see an issue where Cable confronts Cyclops as to what a dick he is.



    Quote:
    Much as I agree with that, I really find both Cyclops and Jean very strangely non-interactive with Cable, and vice versa. Scott and Jean raised Cable. Why is there no emotional connection between any of them? I don't get it.


Because he's just not worth loving IMO. He used to be this cute kid with a force field (the only version of the character I ever liked). Then he got infected with an alien robot virus and dumped in a dystopian future to be raised by a coven of cyber witches and everything he did once he came back to the present was geared towards weaponizing teenage mutants for a grim future that might not even come to pass.

Honestly he represents everything Jean hates IMO. Her life was ripped away from her by the Phoenix and Madelyne and Mastermind and Sinister and so many others and she gets saddled with annoying time travel related children Cable and Rachel each with their own horror story of what the future will be. She gets no choices in any of it and Cable and Rachel want to enforce that idea that she's powerless to change the future because it's in their interests to you know keep those futures on course so they can exist.

And he's not really her son. I mean sure genetically he is but she never gave birth to him. He probably means as much to her as the guy who donates sperm cares about his 102 children.






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America's Captain 

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    Quote:
    Because he's just not worth loving IMO.


While that's a perfectly fine attitude for a comic book reader to have, it's a terrible attitude for a parent to have, unless the kid is some sort of sadistic monster, which Cable isn't.


    Quote:
    He used to be this cute kid with a force field (the only version of the character I ever liked). Then he got infected with an alien robot virus and dumped in a dystopian future to be raised by a coven of cyber witches and everything he did once he came back to the present was geared towards weaponizing teenage mutants for a grim future that might not even come to pass.


OK - now this is where I have to double-check what I think I know, which is, Scott and Jean were transported spiritually (or astrally or whatever) to the future where Cable was sent, took over the bodies of two people in that future, and raised Cable. Do I have that right?


    Quote:
    Honestly he represents everything Jean hates IMO. Her life was ripped away from her by the Phoenix and Madelyne and Mastermind and Sinister and so many others and she gets saddled with annoying time travel related children Cable and Rachel each with their own horror story of what the future will be. She gets no choices in any of it and Cable and Rachel want to enforce that idea that she's powerless to change the future because it's in their interests to you know keep those futures on course so they can exist.


I thought the operating assumption was that all possible futures co-exist. No future can be eliminated. If it's possible at all, it exists. Am I correct?


    Quote:
    And he's not really her son. I mean sure genetically he is but she never gave birth to him.


You're saying genetically he is because Madelyn is Jean's clone, right? I have to admit, you do a better job than I do of remembering when characters are clones. Nevertheless, if I were Jean, I would not consider Cable to my biological son. But that doesn't matter! She raised him. (Unless I'm wrong about that.)


    Quote:
    He probably means as much to her as the guy who donates sperm cares about his 102 children.







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dblackstar2002


Member Since: Mon Dec 11, 2017
Posts: 35


This is why Marvel sucks! Finding new and exciting ways to crap on their heroes! Glad I stopped reading them years age...


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The Black Guardian 

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    Quote:



    Quote:


      Quote:
      And I still say Maddie deserved everything she got. She was being disgustingly abusive to Scott before he left.



    Quote:
    Hmph. Some abuse. She raised her voice because Scott had already ditched her and the baby once to retake the X-Men from Storm.

Pressuring him to be in Alaska while the apocalypse was looming for his people is torture as far as I'm concerned. When X-Factor opens, before he even gets the call about Jean, he's a broken, shell of a man, and Maddie is who broke him.

And she was smacking him for just thinking she could be Jean long before that. And turns out he was right for thinking that.


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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,251



    Quote:


      Quote:
      I want to see an issue where Cable confronts Cyclops as to what a dick he is.



    Quote:
    Well he can't do that. He abandoned his own son Tyler and that son went evil. Cable doesn't own the good parenting high ground.



    Quote:



Well, he could blame Cyclops for that if he wanted, I guess. "I'm a bad father because of the kind of father you were to me." ;\-\)


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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,251



    Quote:

      Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:


          Quote:
          And I still say Maddie deserved everything she got. She was being disgustingly abusive to Scott before he left.

        Quote:

          Quote:
          Hmph. Some abuse. She raised her voice because Scott had already ditched her and the baby once to retake the X-Men from Storm.

        Pressuring him to be in Alaska while the apocalypse was looming for his people is torture as far as I'm concerned. When X-Factor opens, before he even gets the call about Jean, he's a broken, shell of a man, and Maddie is who broke him.


Nope, he is not a broken shell of a man but a surly, passive-aggressive self-centred jerk. How dare Madelyne hold him to his marriage vows and other promises he made, to expect him to fulfill his responsibilities as a husband and father! How dare she feel neglected after Scott could not even be bothered to give her one single phone-call when she was going through the final days of her pregnancy and giving birth to Nathan! And funny how it was only then that Cyclops discovered that he could not stay in Alaska, after living there, apparently contentedly and largely incident-free, for at least ca. a year story-time. Not to mention that before that he had been happy to be on an extended leave from the X-Men ever since UXM #138; during that time he tended to get involved with the X-Men's agenda mostly by accident (being shipwrecked on Magneto's island with Lee Forrester) or in ways that did not involve the fate of mutantkind (galivanting through space to fight the Brood, being targeted for personal revenge by Mastermind). He chose to marry Madelyne of his own free will and let's not forget that if he hadn't done so he could easily have decided to join his father and the Starjammers, i.e. to abandon Earth and mutant concerns for an undetermined time, maybe forever. He was seriously considering that option at the time.

To speak of apocalypse looming etc. is just being overly melodramatic in order to justify Scott's selfish and primarily personal decision (to present his wife with a fait accompli, to abandon her and to expect her to adapt her life to his wishes without question, i.o.w. to conform to a 19th-century concept of marriage). The fact is that before Nathan's birth things had been unusually quiet - as attested by a break in the narrative covering most of Madelyne's pregnancy. The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants was lying low and about to become the government-sponsored Freedom Force, and as UXM #201 was to highlight, the X-Men clearly were of the opinion that they could manage without being led by Cyclops. And when Cyclops ran out on his wife and son in X-Factor #1 it was not because of some acute or even "looming" crisis, but in order to revisit his old girlfriend. It was, at most, a purely personal "emergency". The setting-up of X-Factor, Inc., only came later, and then was handled in such an idiotic fashion that it may have caused more harm than good in the long run by fueling anti-mutant prejudice in the general population. So maybe it would have been better if Scott had stayed in Alaska? At least he would have been there to defend his family against the Marauders' attack, and there really was nothing to prevent the rest of the O5 to visit Scott there. (Madelyne got on well with Scott's teammates, she even sent the X-Men an invitation to visit the Summerses in Anchorage when they briefly moved to San Francisco during SWII).



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America's Captain 

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    Quote:
    Well, he could blame Cyclops for that if he wanted, I guess. "I'm a bad father because of the kind of father you were to me." ;\-\)


I hope I didn't miss some random story somewhere that contradicts what I'm going to say - because I know you consider all stories valid data - but I don't think whining of the above sort would be in character for Cable.

But more importantly, perhaps, is the fact that Scott did no such thing as abandon Cable. Scott and Jean raised Cable. They left their native times and all their friends and family and dedicated their lives to the welfare and growth of Cable. There's nothing for Cable to complain about beyond trivia: "I wanted a rune-etched bone-knife and you wouldn't let me have one. You don't deserve to be my parents!"








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America's Captain 

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    Quote:
    Nope, he is not a broken shell of a man but a surly, passive-aggressive self-centred jerk. How dare Madelyne hold him to his marriage vows and other promises he made, to expect him to fulfill his responsibilities as a husband and father! How dare she feel neglected after Scott could not even be bothered to give her one single phone-call when she was going through the final days of her pregnancy and giving birth to Nathan! And funny how it was only then that Cyclops discovered that he could not stay in Alaska, after living there, apparently contentedly and largely incident-free, for at least ca. a year story-time. Not to mention that before that he had been happy to be on an extended leave from the X-Men ever since UXM #138; during that time he tended to get involved with the X-Men's agenda mostly by accident (being shipwrecked on Magneto's island with Lee Forrester) or in ways that did not involve the fate of mutantkind (galivanting through space to fight the Brood, being targeted for personal revenge by Mastermind).


At what point in the above did Jean return? That always seems to be the deciding factor. Jean is Scott's Lois Lane in the eyes of many fans and many fans-become-writers, the latter of whom have the power to push their vision onto the comic book page. In the eyes of such fan/writers, Madelyn should not have existed, and didn't even really exist in her own right, because somehow in some people's minds a clone is not a unique individual (which makes no sense to me). Once Jean is in the picture, Madelyn must be dispensed with in the most brutal manner possible, because Lois Lane must always be Superman's girlfriend, with no serious competition. Plus, Madelyn was never more than just a plot device any way, a stand-in for Jean, made so obvious by being made a clone of her. It wasn't really Scott (a fictional character with no free will) who was the jerk. It was the writer at the time. But unfortunately Scott the fictional character was made to play out his life decisions in accordance with the whims of the current fan/writer, who cared more about who is paired with whom than about staying true to the heroic ideal that Scott should always have represented.


    Quote:
    He chose to marry Madelyne of his own free will and let's not forget that if he hadn't done so he could easily have decided to join his father and the Starjammers, i.e. to abandon Earth and mutant concerns for an undetermined time, maybe forever. He was seriously considering that option at the time.


He should have gone. I remember that story line. Without Jean to tether him to Earth, he should have gone on a space adventure with his Dad. Had I been the writer, he would have done it, and, if Editorial permitted, I would have written a Starjammers mini-series featuring Cyclops.


    Quote:
    To speak of apocalypse looming etc. is just being overly melodramatic in order to justify Scott's selfish and primarily personal decision (to present his wife with a fait accompli, to abandon her and to expect her to adapt her life to his wishes without question, i.o.w. to conform to a 19th-century concept of marriage). The fact is that before Nathan's birth things had been unusually quiet - as attested by a break in the narrative covering most of Madelyne's pregnancy. The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants was lying low and about to become the government-sponsored Freedom Force, and as UXM #201 was to highlight, the X-Men clearly were of the opinion that they could manage without being led by Cyclops. And when Cyclops ran out on his wife and son in X-Factor #1 it was not because of some acute or even "looming" crisis, but in order to revisit his old girlfriend. It was, at most, a purely personal "emergency". The setting-up of X-Factor, Inc., only came later, and then was handled in such an idiotic fashion that it may have caused more harm than good in the long run by fueling anti-mutant prejudice in the general population. So maybe it would have been better if Scott had stayed in Alaska? At least he would have been there to defend his family against the Marauders' attack, and there really was nothing to prevent the rest of the O5 to visit Scott there. (Madelyne got on well with Scott's teammates, she even sent the X-Men an invitation to visit the Summerses in Anchorage when they briefly moved to San Francisco during SWII).


Scott should never have abandoned his wife and child under any circumstances. But Lois Lane must always win when fan/writers hold the reins.

Nevertheless, somebody somewhere in Editorial must have grasped at last that Scott was being made to look like a jerk, and so we got the story where Scott and Jean raised Nathan in the far future. So Nathan, at least, was not mistreated. Madelyn, however, was sorely ill used. Because she wasn't Lois Lane.






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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689









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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:

      Quote:


        Quote:
        I want to see an issue where Cable confronts Cyclops as to what a dick he is.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Well he can't do that. He abandoned his own son Tyler and that son went evil. Cable doesn't own the good parenting high ground.

        Quote:

          Quote:




    Quote:
    Well, he could blame Cyclops for that if he wanted, I guess. "I'm a bad father because of the kind of father you were to me." ;\-\)


Worst father son argument ever:

Cable: I hate you Dad. You walked out on me and mom to shack up with the woman mom was cloned from! And then I got kidnapped. My mom went demonic. I got infected with an alien virus that made me part robot. And then you dumped me in a future ruled by Apocalypse.

Cyclops: That's not fair . Me and Jean were astrally projected into the future and raised you like our own son.

Cable: I AM YOUR SON!!! Why don't you ever get that?

Cyclops: Well when you have kids you'll understand.

Cable: I did have a kid. Not that your ever asked about your grandson!







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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,251



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Well, he could blame Cyclops for that if he wanted, I guess. "I'm a bad father because of the kind of father you were to me." ;\-\)



    Quote:
    I hope I didn't miss some random story somewhere that contradicts what I'm going to say - because I know you consider all stories valid data - but I don't think whining of the above sort would be in character for Cable.



    Quote:
    But more importantly, perhaps, is the fact that Scott did no such thing as abandon Cable. Scott and Jean raised Cable. They left their native times and all their friends and family and dedicated their lives to the welfare and growth of Cable. There's nothing for Cable to complain about beyond trivia: "I wanted a rune-etched bone-knife and you wouldn't let me have one. You don't deserve to be my parents!"



    Quote:



Well, there is a ;\-\) at the end of the post you answered to for a reason...


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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,251



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Nope, he is not a broken shell of a man but a surly, passive-aggressive self-centred jerk. How dare Madelyne hold him to his marriage vows and other promises he made, to expect him to fulfill his responsibilities as a husband and father! How dare she feel neglected after Scott could not even be bothered to give her one single phone-call when she was going through the final days of her pregnancy and giving birth to Nathan! And funny how it was only then that Cyclops discovered that he could not stay in Alaska, after living there, apparently contentedly and largely incident-free, for at least ca. a year story-time. Not to mention that before that he had been happy to be on an extended leave from the X-Men ever since UXM #138; during that time he tended to get involved with the X-Men's agenda mostly by accident (being shipwrecked on Magneto's island with Lee Forrester) or in ways that did not involve the fate of mutantkind (galivanting through space to fight the Brood, being targeted for personal revenge by Mastermind).


    Quote:
    At what point in the above did Jean return? That always seems to be the deciding factor.


Here's the timeline
UXM Annual #9: Cyclops and the X-Men leave the Mansion to go rescue Storm(1) and the New Mutants from Asgard (Asgardian Wars). Madelyne stays behind at the Mansion, where she had previously joined Cyclops who had been called there following Professor X's injury at the end of the half-year break (IIRC he first was shown in Westchester again in UXM #199).

(1) Storm had previously been on a leave of absence in Africa and had eventually ended up in the pages of New Mutants. Then she and the New Mutants were abducted to Asgard by Loki in NM Special #1. At the time Nightcrawler officially was the leader of the X-Men, but he was uncomfortable in that role.

UXM #200: Returning from Asgard, the X-Men (now including Storm again) end up in Paris, where they stay during the Trial of Magneto, at the end of which the badly injured Professor X is taken to the Starjammer, which then flees from Earth to avoid Shi'ar pursuit. Meanwhile in the Mansion, Madelyne gives birth to Nathan, all alone on the kitchen floor.

UXM #201: While the X-Men coo over the newborn baby, Madelyne is upset over Scott's unconcern and lack of enthusiasm over Nathan Charles Summers and the cold shoulder he has been giving her. She complains to Ororo that after his return from Asgard he never once phoned her, while most of the X-Men had called her from Paris to enquire after her health etc. She later confronts Cyclops who tells her that he intends to stay because the X-Men need him, especially with Magneto living in the Mansion, and that he expects Madelyne to ditch her career as a pilot to look after their child. Madelyne disagrees, saying that maybe he is just afraid that the X-Men can get along without him. Storm then challenges Cyclops to a duel for the team leadership. She wins, and Scott has no option but to return to Alaska with Madelyne.

X-Factor #1: Scott is living in his home in Anchorage with his wife and son, then gets the phone call from Warren and learns about Jean's return. He leaves Madelyne and Nathan with a non-explanation explanation and rushes off to New York despite Madelyne trying to stop him.


    Quote:
    Jean is Scott's Lois Lane in the eyes of many fans and many fans-become-writers, the latter of whom have the power to push their vision onto the comic book page.


Yes, early is a textbook example of fans-turned-creators running amuck in an (ultimately futile attempt) to prove Tom Wolfe wrong and "go home again". Not only did they reunite Scott and Jean (in a horrible execution), but they also broke up Warren and Candy so they could reestablish the Scott-Jean-Warren triangle that had briefly been a thing in the 1960s, returned Hank to his pre-furry state and even brought back his Silver Age love interest Vera Cantor...


    Quote:
    In the eyes of such fan/writers, Madelyn should not have existed, and didn't even really exist in her own right, because somehow in some people's minds a clone is not a unique individual (which makes no sense to me).


Remember that at that point Madelyne was little more than a "normal" woman who happened to be a dead ringer for Jean Grey. She was only retroactively turned into Jean's clone during Inferno in order to provide a rationale for getting rid of her.


    Quote:
    Once Jean is in the picture, Madelyn must be dispensed with in the most brutal manner possible, because Lois Lane must always be Superman's girlfriend, with no serious competition. Plus, Madelyn was never more than just a plot device any way, a stand-in for Jean, made so obvious by being made a clone of her. It wasn't really Scott (a fictional character with no free will) who was the jerk. It was the writer at the time. But unfortunately Scott the fictional character was made to play out his life decisions in accordance with the whims of the current fan/writer, who cared more about who is paired with whom than about staying true to the heroic ideal that Scott should always have represented.


Well, I disagree about heroes having to conform to some (abstract) ideal, they tend to be more interesting if they have weaknesses or are struggling with the ideals they set for themselves. And I think that "it's just a story" or "he's just a fictional character" are excuses that should be used very sparingly, only in very exceptional and serious cases.

The main problem was that the writers of early X-Factor were too elaborate and did not pay attention enough to previous characterization. For instance, they suddenly wanted to make out that Scott had married Madelyne as a Jean stand-in, while in UXM #175 Scott had visited Jean's grave before his wedding and told Jean that he was marrying Madelyne because he realized that she was NOT Jean but a person in her own right. The also had a tendency towards over-contrived plots, and so the X-Factor setup depended on the O5 deciding to cut their ties with the active X-Men and subsequently never meeting (even though at the time their bases in Manhattan and Salem Center were only a few miles apart), while the JeanScottMadelyne subplot in part depended on Hank, Warren and Bobby helping Scott to hide the truth from Jean.


    Quote:
    He chose to marry Madelyne of his own free will and let's not forget that if he hadn't done so he could easily have decided to join his father and the Starjammers, i.e. to abandon Earth and mutant concerns for an undetermined time, maybe forever. He was seriously considering that option at the time.



    Quote:
    He should have gone. I remember that story line. Without Jean to tether him to Earth, he should have gone on a space adventure with his Dad. Had I been the writer, he would have done it, and, if Editorial permitted, I would have written a Starjammers mini-series featuring Cyclops.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      To speak of apocalypse looming etc. is just being overly melodramatic in order to justify Scott's selfish and primarily personal decision (to present his wife with a fait accompli, to abandon her and to expect her to adapt her life to his wishes without question, i.o.w. to conform to a 19th-century concept of marriage). The fact is that before Nathan's birth things had been unusually quiet - as attested by a break in the narrative covering most of Madelyne's pregnancy. The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants was lying low and about to become the government-sponsored Freedom Force, and as UXM #201 was to highlight, the X-Men clearly were of the opinion that they could manage without being led by Cyclops. And when Cyclops ran out on his wife and son in X-Factor #1 it was not because of some acute or even "looming" crisis, but in order to revisit his old girlfriend. It was, at most, a purely personal "emergency". The setting-up of X-Factor, Inc., only came later, and then was handled in such an idiotic fashion that it may have caused more harm than good in the long run by fueling anti-mutant prejudice in the general population. So maybe it would have been better if Scott had stayed in Alaska? At least he would have been there to defend his family against the Marauders' attack, and there really was nothing to prevent the rest of the O5 to visit Scott there. (Madelyne got on well with Scott's teammates, she even sent the X-Men an invitation to visit the Summerses in Anchorage when they briefly moved to San Francisco during SWII).



    Quote:
    Scott should never have abandoned his wife and child under any circumstances. But Lois Lane must always win when fan/writers hold the reins.



    Quote:
    Nevertheless, somebody somewhere in Editorial must have grasped at last that Scott was being made to look like a jerk, and so we got the story where Scott and Jean raised Nathan in the far future. So Nathan, at least, was not mistreated. Madelyn, however, was sorely ill used. Because she wasn't Lois Lane.





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