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Reverend Meteor

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,043
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Member Since: Sun Nov 26, 2017
Posts: 17
Subj: Re: Does Anyone Know What John Byrne Had Planned For The West Coast Avengers Before He Left? Did Thomas Do The Story? It Sounded Interesting.
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 at 08:23:48 am EST (Viewed 196 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Does Anyone Know What John Byrne Had Planned For The West Coast Avengers Before He Left? Did Thomas Do The Story? It Sounded Interesting.
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 at 07:17:31 pm EST (Viewed 208 times)


      I actually thought there was some interesting stuff in Englehart's run, and he did great work with Hawkeye. Mockingbird became a viable character under him (building on work begun in the Hawkeye limited series and the WCA limited series).

    I found Mockingbird one dimensional. And it bugged me that the 2 of them were so much like Green Arrow and Black Canary. I'm surprised they never gave Bobbi a sonic scream. I never found Hawkeye as leader to be realistic. He had plenty of ambition, but never demonstrated any competence at leadership prior to Marvel shoe-horning him into the role.


      I think we all agree that one of Byrne's strengths is visual storytelling, so under him the book LOOKED great - even if I hated the dismissal of Hawkeye, the deconstruction of the Vision and the ruination of the Scarlet Witch. Also little discussed, but the Wasp, coming off her critically acclaimed time as leader of the NYC branch, was immediately portrayed by Byrne as a flighty airhead, which regressed Jan as a character too. Quicksilver just fell back in with Dark Wanda and Magneto, which was a regression for him.

    Well...the order ever changeth, right? Hawkeye is one of my top 5 favorite Avengers, but he HAD been around since the beginning. Perhaps Byrne just wanted to shake things up. I hope it wasn't because he really believed that the Great Lakes Avengers was a viable idea. That was one of the few dumb things Byrne did. And really, Byrne was just trying to repair the damage done to Vision and Wanda by the 12 issue limited series, which was horrendous. I doubt that Byrne wanted to keep Vision completely robotic forever, or return Wanda and Pietro to the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. He didn't regress Pietro. Quicksilver was at odds with the Avengers after he was mind-controlled by Maximus. Byrne didn't write that story. And he can't be held responsible for subsequent writers, who took his work, and then added to it. Wanda wasn't meant to be a lunatic permanently, any more than Pym was supposed to be a wife beater after Shooter wrote the original story.

    Wasp's time as leader WAS great. I came to love her character after that, but I don't think she was ever flightly in reality. That was just the act she puts on to keep people off balance. Peter David's take on her character was spot on for me, when he had her make a guest appearance in Spectacular Spider-man. So, when she's not leader, she just assumes a different role. Just like when Beast is an Avenger. He couldn't measure up to the scientific qualifications of Stark and T'Challa, so he adopted a different role. Both their characters have depth as a result. So, no, I can't agree with the interpretation that Byrne did a lot of damage. Unless anyone has any knowledge that he intended to robotify Vision and reduce Wanda to insanity permanently.

I would say he had plans to fix Wanda but no plans to fix Vision.

Personally I think John Byrne hated Englehart's work (so did I). He undid Vision's origin. Dismantled Vision. Revealed Thomas and William were shards of Mephisto's soul. Drove Wanda crazy. De-crazied Pietro.

I think Byrne's ultimate plan was to break Wanda down and build her back up again. But he never got to the building her back up part. I doubt Byrne ever wanted to fix Vision. I think he saw the Vision as the problem in Wanda's life.

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