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Liam Gallagher's Unibrow

Location: Mega-City One
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,007
In Reply To
Braugi

Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 187
Subj: Re: The real problem is we don't have Marvel crossovers to compare
Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 05:20:35 pm EDT (Viewed 45 times)
Reply Subj: The real problem is we don't have Marvel crossovers to compare
Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 11:04:42 pm EDT (Viewed 41 times)

Previous Post

feats are crap measures of relative strength. We have few feats, in part because of budgetary constraints on a show.

Also, not having feats because feats aren't attempted is very different from having a lot of 'failed' feats. There are a few 'failed' feats, like struggling with chains, but a lot of other very good feats, like punching through concrete or brick.

The beatings Buffy stood up to from Glory, for instance, judging by the foot stomp feat, could well put Buffy's durability in the ballpark of the wrecking crew...now, I don't buy that, but that is in part why its so difficult.

The only 'concrete' information we have is that vampires are stronger than people in general, and that Buffy is significantly stronger than Spike and stronger than Angel. Other types of vampires are stronger than 'normal' vampires too.

We know that 'enhanced, super-soldiers' aren't on Buffy's level too, but how do they stack up.

By her highest end feats, she's probably above class 5. By her failures, maybe class 1. By lack of attempts, we gain no information. Her feats that put her at 1 ton or more are at least as numerous as those that put Cap in the 1 ton ballpark, with FAR fewer showings.

So, in terms of probability, she's almost certainly above peak human. Likewise, she's pretty much statistically certain to be less than class 10, and pretty unlikely to be at or above class 5. Most likely somewhere in the 1-4 ton range, and good arguments can be made at least up to 3 tons.

If JW wrote a crossover, I'd be surprised if Cap were stronger, for instance, but I'd be VERY surprised if she were stronger than Spider Man. I wouldn't be surprised if she overpowered Vermin (at 2 tons) however. I'd be a little surprised if she overpowered Beast, who has ranged from 1 ton to a 10 ton listing in at least one handbook, and often considered about a 5 tonner. That said, the version listed at 10 tons has similar leaping capacity to what she has shown, and his running speed is explicitly lower (40 mph for Beast, while Buffy was able to keep up with a bus).


Agree with all of this. The budgetary/choreography factors on the show can't really be overemphasised as limiting factors. If you watch how Angel is portrayed in season 1 of Buffy, or even season 1 of his own show, and then watch how he is shown in season 4 and 5 of Angel, there's just no comparison (as an aside, seasons 4 and 5 a lot of the episodes are done by the same guy who did Daredevil season 1 and you can tell the fight scene choreography is on a whole new level to anything previously in either Buffy or Angel).

Angelus vs Faith in season 4 has them punting each other twenty of thirty feet across the room, both of them leaping at least that straight up vertically multiple times, dodging point blank range shotgun blasts etc. By season 5 you have Angel walking off falling several hundred feet out of a skyscraper on to solid concrete. You have several people in those later seasons shown capable of deadlifting vehicles (in one case, lifting and then throwing a car as a weapon fairly casually - these guys are clearly stronger than Angel and the like, but it does show that they are meant to be interacting with a level of being way above Cap).

If you read the Joss Whedon written comics that followed the TV shows, you really get to the inescapable conclusion that these characters are, conceptually, above the street level comic guys. In a medium where budgetary constraints were no longer an issue, you have Buffy tearing through rooms full of dozens of soldiers with machine guns without getting touched, dodging and weaving through machine gun fire like Daredevil on his best day. Angel has multiple showings of punching clean through people's torsos, punching through concrete etc. I'd need to go back and re-read the series but I remember everyone being dialled up a level as you would expect in comics (applied across the spectrum - Willow was much more a Dr Strange type combat mage, levitating, teleporting, energy shields etc., and the uber threats were really uber - a fully-unleashed Ilyria was collapsing all of space-time and rewriting reality).

I'm 110% certain that if someone asked Joss Whedon who was stronger, Buffy or his movie Cap, he would say Buffy and convincingly.


Cheers.





Chancellor Liam, Dean of the Forgotten Green Academy of Gamma Sciences
"Hulk would have to be in a life or death struggle for a good 25+ years to BEGIN to start to surpass [Thor]." - MjolnirsPower
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