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Subj: What do you mean by 'not true'....
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 at 10:11:29 am EST (Viewed 51 times)
Reply Subj: Re: To the best of my knowledge...
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 at 10:57:25 pm EST (Viewed 51 times)
So, in the 616 universe, Onslaught happened, Franklin created an alternate universe where things seemed very different, but many mainstream Marvel characters went to that universe and existed, though in many cases their histories appeared different. Later, they came back to the mainstream, 616 universe.
I think we all agree on that much.
Then the question is, what is a real showing. When you use terms like 'all the events that transpired are not true', I absolutely disagree. They happened. Just like the events in What If's 'happened' at least within the context of their own universe. Whether they can be used to analyze 616 characters is a different thing and generally not useful.
That said, Age of Apocalypse gave us Xman, who interacted with 616 characters in the 616 universe, and his perspective may give us some insight into relative characters in both of those universes, though Nate's showings don't necessarily give us insight as to his own 616 counterpart's capabilities.
Now, we have a 616 character that went to Franklin's universe. There was another Thor there too. A 616 Celestial went to the pocket universe as well. That Celestial changed Thor into a frog. Yes, all that happened. There MAY be questions around it though.
Was it the 616 Thor that was changed? If so, was that Thor altered by Franklin in power level or function? How about the Celestial?
If it was indisputably the 616 Thor, then yes, a Celestial turned him into a frog. This would be true if it happened in the Marvel vs. DC crossover, or if Thor and the celestial traveled to the Ultimate Universe, or any other universe.
Likewise, if Spider Man and Thor are magically transported to one of the other universes referenced in Exiles and other comics, and there, those 616 characters faced off, and Spidey beat Thor, especially if it were written in the mainstream 616 comic, then Spider Man would have beaten Thor, and the showing would be canon.
In this case, to summarize, you may raise the question over whether Ashema changed Thor or a Thor construct created by Franklin into a frog, but at the end of the day, that it happened in a different setting does not negate that it happened, barring a retcon of some sort.
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