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Subj: Re: Systemic racism
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 at 12:20:31 pm EDT (Viewed 470 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Systemic racism
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 at 11:31:44 am EDT (Viewed 437 times)
Quote:I know you guys are probably tired of this topic but these are the buzzwords "systemic racism" and "white privlidge" etc.
Quote:I guess, but does not mean they are not issues. I feel we lose track of some things when some words enter pop culture or common usage. Some will dismiss them out of hand because of it.
Quote:I just wonder if you would have an answer to Elder's question here? It's clear he is talking with stats while the interviewer is talking about generalities.
Quote:Not sure I agree, he is mostly using pretty conservative talking points about the issues. There may be something to them but there are something to the other side of it too.
Quote:For instance, police shootings that are brought up. One can bring up statistics if you want, but the fact is those stats are flawed. Even as estimates. We do not know. Those sorts of things are not reported the same way or consistently. So it is not possible to form a full statistical argument on the matter.
Quote:For that matter, one could just pick their side from an ideological point of view and run there. Many on the conservative side will assume that the police did nothing wrong with gunning down these people. Liberals can go too far and basically assume that police should not defend themselves. Depending on the extent one wants to back law enforcement or whatever you will lean one way or another.
Quote:A statistics would be that African Americans are about 2.5 times as likely to get killed by police as whites. Now, this reflects things other than just the flat statistic and is in and of itself misleading. However, based on the information available it does seem like AA or minorities are more likely to get gunned down. Even if the crime is non-violent.
Quote:This is a complicated issue, moreso than people make it. There are questions of abuse of power vs perception of abuse of power vs general generations of distrust in police for varying reasons.
Quote:The interviewer does not seem as prepared here but the other guy, Elder is not doing particularly well either. At least from an honest point of view.
Quote:"Give an example of systemic racism."
Quote:Please watch the video so you know what I'm trying to get at here because if you answer without doing so, you'll misunderstand my question. I'm not really able to articulate it as well as I'd like. As always, thanks in advance for any replies.
Quote:I think he is mixing several issues. I could provide counter examples of points to what he is doing. And in some of the instances one should be a bit disturbed by the videos we see. As there are many examples of a white person doing something similar and everything going fine.
Quote:It is apples and oranges and harder to link to race alone but it is hard to admit that there is not some bias.
Quote:I would say if somebody were to ask me the version of racism we see now is more subtle but still there. What are large scale examples. Voter ID laws are pretty clear examples. In general one could argue that the winning party is trying to maximize their votes. This is true, but when one redistricts minorities to diminish their political clout it is racism, sexist or whatever. Even if one assumes that it is made solely on political lines than it could be a First Amendment violation.
Quote:The clearest examples in recent times, the first place called out for it, was police and judicial system in Ferguson using the poor minority community as a source of income. Looking for reasons to charge them with offenses to keep everything going in the first place.
Not sure if you can call this one racism. Cops do the same thing in my country. More poverty than race.
Quote:I think the only way this Elder fellow comes off as convincing is if you already feel that way about the issue. As there are some incomplete statistics for either side to use.
Quote:Is one more willing to tolerate "minor racism" or abuses of power or does one have the right to trail and life unless it is taken away. It is even more complicated than that but the guy comes off as callous to me. A talking head.
I guess I am a little like the interviewer, then. I have been told there are racist barriers in the institutions of the USA, so I just take that as a given. But when asked to give evidence I don't have any facts to quote, which is I guess what I was interested in.
I don't agree or disagree (it's a subject I have no first-hand experience in), I was just interested if there was evidence beyond the anecdotal examples the interviewer (and yourself) have given. Basically I wanted to see if anyone had stats to counter Elder's. I mean its one thing to say stats are flawed but what else do you have to go on then? A feeling? Subtle racism that you know is there? your gut?
I don't know, I was just looking for a clear answer to Elder's challenge.
Thanks for your response, tho.
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