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Post By
Sumidor

Member Since: Sat Feb 25, 2017
Posts: 115
In Reply To
bd2999

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,503
Subj: Re: Very troubling...
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 at 11:20:09 am EDT (Viewed 155 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Very troubling...
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 at 02:46:07 pm EDT (Viewed 139 times)



    Quote:
    While its perfectly possible this did not affect the election enough to make a difference, ignoring it is a very bad sign and it does make Trump look very very bad.



    Quote:
    Possible, but seems unlikely that it had no impact. We already know that Russia was responsible for the email dump that hurt Clinton so much.


I think to say that the e-mail dump hurt her her "so much" is overstating the case.

The mails were red meat for those who already decided not to vote for Clinton, and they were ignored by most others. I myself was not a fan a Clinton, but still found very little in Podesta's or DNC mails that was interesting. I think you have a steep hill to climb to demonstrate the mail dump had any impact on the election.

Even Chris Mathews and the Daily Kos have stopped blaming Russia for Hillary's loss. The e-mail dump had nothing terribly exciting that would sway enough independent voters. In the last 10 weeks Trump made 50% more stops in Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Hillary's avoidance of Michigan and Wisconsin in the final days is now famous. Russia didn't put up barriers preventing Hillary from traveling.

Bill Clinton had a much stronger relationship with the American people, and Hillary couldn't come close to Bill's charisma. He told her to spend more time in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. He told her that she needs to connect with those people. But she and her campaign ignored that advice.

I'm sure both of us have spent a lot of time analyzing the election results. One thing I've seen is that only Clinton supporters point to the e-mails and Russia as why she lost. To get the real reasons, we have to look at why independents said they swung for Trump, not focus on suppositions of democrat voters. Outside of major metropolitan cities people didn't think Hillary cared about the loss of factory jobs, coal jobs, etc. Trump promised to bring those back. The argument whether or not he can fulfill that promise is a separate topic. But relevant to why people voted for him, he was talking about what rural, middle class voters wanted to hear....traditional jobs that their family has held for maybe generations, and lower taxes for example. Trump got big numbers from unions in Ohio. Unions typically vote democrat, but many union members voted Trump because his message resonated better.

In the heartland many people believe in American exceptionalism, and are more patriotic generally than those in the coastal cities like NY and LA. Trump would speak in terms of "we" when he spoke of Americans, and he spoke of Americans as one people quite often. And that's something that democrats have gotten away from. Democrats speak of the African American community, the gay community, the Latinos, the rich, the whites, the poor, etc, but Trump was more likely to speak of Americans as a whole. The DNC didn't think it was important to display American flags in the arena. Things like that may not matter to you personally, but it did matter for many people who voted Trump.

Hillary's non-existent message is also now accepted by most democrats. She seemed to be out there simply because it was "her turn". There was an arrogance that some saw.

I'm sure you don't think of me as having an unbiased mind here, and that's fair. But what I'm suggesting is that you look at interviews from actual Trump voters, especially those who are not registered republicans. Look at columns written by people who voted for Trump, and who also voted for Obama both times.


.....not sure why my post is centered. Apologies if the format is distracting.









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