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Subj: Re: All this simply sounds like a convoluted way to defend antifa, can we agree that...
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 at 01:15:05 pm EDT (Viewed 278 times)
Reply Subj: All this simply sounds like a convoluted way to defend antifa, can we agree that...
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 at 09:16:01 am EDT (Viewed 265 times)
I could say your logic at times is coming off as defending Neo-Nazi's with the same logic you are trying to use against me. As you are downplaying them a fair bit.
Quote:Neo-Nazi's are a Hate group?
Yes, along with similar groups.
Quote:Antifa is a HATE group?
Not that I know about. By definition they are not.
"A hate group is a social group that advocates and practices hatred, hostility or violence towards members of a race, ethnicity, nation, religion, gender, gender identity sexual orientation"
One could probably work some others in, but they are not a hate group. You will say this is defending them. Not defending their violence at all but their whole m.o. is going and fighting what would be considered a hate group. The violence is wrong, but it puts one in a strange spot then.
Is opposing facism and white supremacists views make one part of a hate group? They are also not coordinated to well.
If they commit crimes than they belong in jail. The opposition to some of the stuff they are opposed to are things that everybody should hope to be, against bigotry etc. However, their methods are deplorable.
I think you are missing that totally lumping them in together like they are the same. They both use bad tactics. One also is preaching horrible things and using them. One has a horrible way of doing what they are doing. However, opposition to that sort of stuff seems ok.
If we do not think it is than one could call most descent people as part of a hate group in the first place. And that is not so. Their violence should be condemned though. However, equivalency between the groups is not the case.
That they both have the right to PEACEFULLY organize and spout their idiotic racist ideas using the freedoms this country gives them?
So, by that logic is it ok to give both's sides views equal time and let people make up there mind. White supremacy vs anti-fascism?
I think we fail as a country with the idea that all views should be legit. Because something is legally allowed does not mean that it is ok either.
Quote:That they both are just terrible terrible terrible ideas?
White supremacy is the same as a group battling them? Does that make any sense? Their methods are bad. The general goal of being anti-fascist or racist is not a terrible terrible terrible idea. It is a good one.
Their methods are poor. One side has terrible ideas and methods. One side has terrible methods.
One could argue that what they think is wrong is not correct but at the same time they really only show up, or at least from articles I read, at rallies by those they oppose. They do not really rally themselves much.
If they commit a crime than they belong in jail than they belong in jail. Just like a Neo Nazi. I am not sure that being anti-Nazi makes one a hateful person or a terrorist or anything though.
Quote:The Nazi's have been around longer and in a better world they would cease to exist? And that Antifa should join them in oblivion?
Hypothetically, if not for the Nazi's and the growth of white nationalism after the election of Trump they would not exist.
I am not sure how one really pretends that they are on equal moral footing. The methods are both bad. But if one side has the goal of being anti-Nazi, than that makes them a Hate group on par with the Nazi's?
Color me confused. As I am not sure we are discussing the same thing at all.
Seems to me, the goal of the country should not be damning the whole both sides thing as a goal. We should be worried about a society where white nationalism is growing and the other things and that there is a president that selectively favors outrage. And as a society a growing number of people seem to be cool with the ideology of those nationalists. Partly because of half truths and lies in the first place.
Those are major major concerns. About 9% of the US is ok with the views thrown out by actual hate groups. Which are tens of millions. Why is that? Shouldn't that be our concern? Why give equal weight to a reaction to growing hatred while ignoring the cancer that spawned it in the first place?
Violence vs violence is not ok. I am against hate vs hate. But I also do not think the two groups are the same. At least from what I can tell. In the sense that they perform some criminal activities they are similar in that way. In terms of ideology, not sure how one can even pretend that they are the same.
Do you have anything indicating that they are a hate group? Maybe I am wrong but I could not find too much about it. Only general articles explaining what they are and the like. Not too much otherwise. As they are fairly recent. Maybe they should be but if we are doing that classification based on ideology in part than wouldn't most of us be in a Hate Group?
I hate Nazi's and those that support those views.
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