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Post By
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,903
In Reply To
MysteryMan

Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 642
Subj: Re: Regarding that mess in Virginia
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 at 04:28:16 pm EDT (Viewed 73 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Regarding that mess in Virginia
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 at 01:15:34 pm EDT (Viewed 81 times)



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      Obviously I am not a member of antifa since I outright condemned their tactics. And what am I equivocating antifa to? Certainly not the neo-Nazis like you are. As for being civil, I just stated what you were doing, that is being a moral equivocator. If you're not, please clarify which group you think is worse.



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    No you stated what your outraged SJW-activism perceived.


As per another thread on this board, the usage of the "SJW" term, especially as a pejorative has been so done to death, it's lost any meaning, and indeed, I have no idea what you mean here.


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    You are minimizing their actions by comparing them to another radical group with a longer history of heinous acts. I am simply calling them what they both are. I suppose you are content to simply wait until they catch up then?


You called antifa a hate group, but they aren't except in a very loose sense. They hate facists. They hate neo-Nazis. They hate white supremacists. The heinous acts of antifa are in no way comparable to the heinous acts of those they hate. You're morally equivocating both and acting as if antifa were unchecked, they would catch up. Give me a break. Antifa will never get close to lynching thousands of blacks or killing millions of Jews.


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          Sure, the movement will get SOME blame. Prosecution under the law will only apply to that one person, but law and morality are not the same thing. I've already condemned antifa's methods on more than one occasion in this thread. If someone in antifa kills someone, then of course that someone gets primary blame, but insofar as antifa tolerates or promotes violence, they will be enabling that someone and should be admonished for it. Hell, Trump has promoted violence in some of his speeches. That is morally reprehensible.



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        I am sure you will do your best to minimize the blame they receive in your own mind, since you are defending them here.



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      So you interpreted what I just wrote as the exact opposite of what I wrote? Wow.



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    Not in the least.


It's right there on the page in front of you! I wrote, "I've already condemned antifa's methods on more than one occasion in this thread. If someone in antifa kills someone, then of course that someone gets primary blame, but insofar as antifa tolerates or promotes violence, they will be enabling that someone and should be admonished for it." And you responded, "I am sure you will do your best to minimize the blame they receive in your own mind." I'm saying they should be blamed! How is that my minimizing blame? Really! It's like you're just making things up out of the blue because you can't rebut my points.


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        No one is defending Trumps moronic statements about violence he made during his election run.

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        Huh? I was pointing out that Trump's statements about violence was an implicit promotion of such violence and that insofar that antifa does the same thing, they should also be condemned.



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    Antifa does NOT imply. They STATE. There is more than a subtle difference. Because something that someone PERCEIVES is an implication. A statement leaves no such wiggle room.


Well, I was just being kind to Trump when I said he implies. When you offer to pay someone's legal bills before they engage in violence, that's pretty much stating what you want to see happen.


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      Usually calling someone garbage implies you hate them.



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    Perhaps for you. But that's YOUR perceptions again, that you like to treat as fact. Disdain for, despair over how humans behave, a descriptor of human morality attributed to said group...all quite as likely feelings behind such a statement. But that wouldn't work for your insulting pithy attempt at a reply now would it?



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    Rather than talk the comments...you attributed your own perceived notions about my character and mixed them into your arguments.


I think you're rambling now. I don't really know what you're saying here. If you call a hate group "garbage" and you don't hate them, how do you feel about them? Do you call people you like "garbage"?


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        antifa is not violence against racism...its violence for anarchy. Anarchy is NOT a good thing. Tat is what antifa is truly supporting. Yes lets bring back the Dark Ages why don't we?



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      This is entering bizarro world in your attempts at justification. According to you, antifa is marching against white supremacists, not because they are marching against racism but for anarchy? Obviously you didn't read the signs antifa was holding up explicitly against racism at the rally. Also antifa is not some formal unified group with a single philosophy aside from one thing, and that is what they are against, not what they are for. IT'S IN THEIR NAME: antifa = anti-facist. There may be anarchists among them, but the group as a whole does not identify with anarchy. So you're wrong.



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    Well at least a comic book insult this time. Obviously you didn't hear the words of hate they were shouting, words of murder or paid attention to the Molotov cocktails they are known to toss about at crowded gatherings. They can claim to be anti-facist all they like...doesn't mean their actions show them to be anything but anarchists acting like facists by their own actions.


So you think antifa is just pretending to be anti-fascist, that they risk their lives protesting against armed neo-Nazis while hiding their true agenda to bring down all law and order? Uh, I think your perceptions are the ones that need recalibrating.


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    I know as a card carrying member of the SJW's you can't admit to ever being wrong in a social belief that you have. So I forgive you for being wrong.


You hate SJWs. Are you part of a hate group now?


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        I am not comparing them...I am calling them both what they are HATE groups. That you defend your fellow antifa members is not surprising though.



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      You do get emotional. Again, I don't like antifa's methods. My point is that they are less morally blameworthy than the neo-Nazis/white supremacists and it's wrong to morally equivocate between the two as Trump has done and as you are doing here. As I stated, violence is bad, but is violence against racism every bit as bad as violence in support of racism? Is violence fighting Hitler's Germany in WWII every bit as bad as violence in support of Hitler's Germany in WWII? Please answer my question. If you can't, then I rest my case.



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    Ahhh....another attempt to be-little someone's character before making your statement. Trade-mark extremist behavior at work. You don't deviate from your fanaticism I will give you that.


I didn't realize being "emotional" is an insult, but if you think that's insulting and people shouldn't be insulting, aren't you being a hypocrite in calling my behavior "extremist" and calling me a fanatic? What have I done exactly that makes me a fanatic extremist? Say the neo-Nazis are worse than antifa? Is that an extremist position? I pointed out all the Republicans who did the same while criticizing Trump for his moral equivocation - Jeff Flake, Cory Gardner, Lindsay Graham, Will Hurd, John Kasich, John McCain, Jerry Moran, and Marco Rubio. Are they all extremists like me?


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    Your questions based on the powers of hindsight are amazing. I dub thee Captain Hindsight! Yes...Hitler's violence was worse...the 3rd worst in recorded human history.


So you can identify different degrees of morality within violence. The corollary then is that you should be able to recognize that violence from neo-Nazis is worse than violence from those protesting neo-Nazis.


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    The KKK, Nazi's and all their ilk are vile hatemongers and have no place in any sane reasonable society. antifa have no place as well. But fee free to continue justifying their actions how ever backhandedly you try by saying....well Nazi's are worse. Wow...that's a great defense comparison...Nazi's are worse.


It was really hard to get you to admit that. And I did not frame the terms of this debate. Trump did in that he could not even say Nazis are worse.




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