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Post By
bd2999

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 14,097
In Reply To
atrimus

Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,764
Subj: I guess my issue with the debate...
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 at 03:36:23 pm EDT (Viewed 71 times)
Reply Subj: NFL and kneeling
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 at 11:43:49 am EDT (Viewed 90 times)



    Quote:
    Just wondering about everyone's position here.



    Quote:
    While I sympathize with (Kaepernick's) initial reasoning, I'm not sure I agree with kneeling. Whatever social niggles the US has, the flag and National Anthem are as much to honor those who fought and/or died for the country.



    Quote:
    That said, my opinion shifted once Trump weighed in. A President suggesting people be fired (i.e. punished) for kneeling during the National Anthem makes it a direct case of government interfering with freedom of speech, something those same soldiers fought and died defending.


is when did patriotism become defined only the people fighting for the country overseas? Those serving do a great task, but this is also a way for those in power to call those that disagree unpatriotic for not supporting a given conflict. Bush Jr.'s administration was big on this. And the two are conflated often.

I am not saying that they are not giving to their country at all, but we seemingly gladly overlook all those performing services to the country, or are outright hostile towards them. Like teachers or local authorities. I do not just mean in PR, but many that will happily use them as political shields or punching bags will gladly cut their funding but we never cast it as patriotic or not.

Only the one issue seems to and that disturbs me a great deal. It is like the only thing some can see are military service, the other stuff does not matter.

And many of those are hypocritical as well. We do a better job now than before of helping our returning vets but many are lost in the cracks of a cruddy mental health system that devolves into a government vs private sector debate that is not really helping the issue much, just the same old junk.

We use veterans and various public servants as shields or goats as needed and it is sickening to me. And few seem to care about that.

In particular from an administration that takes joy in firing or destroying agencies that do their job to protect and aid the US. Those people are doing a patriotic service but in the mind of Trump and modern conservatives they are the problem.

My general thoughts are this:

1. Trump needs to worry about real problems. Not this culture war crap. It is a distraction to take the heat away from investigations and other things he is bungling.

2. Trump, as a member of the government, has no business telling people how they can or cannot express themselves.

3. The president has no business telling private companies how they behave outside of regulatory function. How a company deals with personnel and this sort of issue is their choice.

4. Trump has a bad history of this sort of thing and is no judge of morality or ethics.

5. It is ironic that many that are up the wall about this are supposedly big on free speech. You almost always see "I support free speech but...". Which is ironic, as they are the first to lecture and call folks snowflakes.

6. It is ironic that many seem to think this is THE issue of the day. While being super USA and patriotic they also want various monuments to stand to those that sought to destroy the thing they want to celebrate and punish people over.

7. Employers have the right to fire people over things like this, does not mean they are under an obligation to do so. Or that the president can do anything other than blow smoke to fire up culture war issues.


This whole thing is nonsense and not worthy of much in my view. Do people have a right to be offended by this? Sure, but I think they need to reflect on what patriotism is to them.


During all of this, nobody really asks why this is happening in the first place. Or what the concerns are and how they should be addressed. We only worry are people are offended or not. Which is ironic, given that liberals and others are general called snowflakes and similar if they ever express anything against the status quo.






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