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Post By
bd2999

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 15,933
In Reply To
MysteryMan

Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 2,204
Subj: Re: I did not post a link...
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 at 11:10:20 am EST (Viewed 226 times)
Reply Subj: Re: I did not post a link...
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 at 09:35:31 am EST (Viewed 239 times)



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        More high-deductible insurance plans and increases in the percent of health care costs borne by consumers also contributed to the slower rate of increase, said Micah Hartman, a statistician in CMS' Office of the Actuary. The more people have to pay for health care treatment out of pocket, the less they tend to use.

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          So to clarify maybe it wasn't the rate.
          So maybe it wasn't the rate...but the cost was much higher.
          Basically...the PEOPLE had to pay more when they needed to use it.
          costs borne by the consumer,

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        Which I think is a fair point but to date none of the plans really have addressed the deductible problem. In fact the GOP alternatives generally take the approach of decreasing premiums by increasing deductibles.

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          I think it is important to note the why question though. And that is the point people can debate.

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            I think this article sums up the pros and cons fairly well in many respects. Although one still has to keep in mind that all insurance is by nature more expensive now because it is more expansive.

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              http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/

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                Some disagree with that, however it is generally better for unexpected consequences to have coverage for more than less things. Some will disagree with me, but it is important to note that deductibles are high, co-pays are high and that prescription drugs are high. The later is also the fault in part by other regulatory and legislative decisions and actions.

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                  Much more can be done in all of these areas for sure. They never will be done. And at the moment the alternative is apparently to flip back to before ACA. Meaning more people will just not have anything, premiums go up faster and insurance covers less.

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                    The whole thing did a fair bit of good even if it did have its downsides. I have yet to find a piece of major legislation (in my life anyway) that has made everybody happy in every way. Just never going to happen. And there were honestly a ton of things to do differently with the ACA, but it will never happen. And what we will end up with would likely charge people even more. Particularly those that are sick.

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                      Recall that the GOP plans for the most part often had those that were sick in the loser category for the potential laws. They were only good for people that were already healthy and did not need much healthcare.

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                        Until we have actual reform of some things in the healthcare system the cost to consumers through whatever mechanism will keep going up at a very high rate.



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    Was referring top Nov's link.



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    The real problem is letting the pharmaceutical companies run rampant with their pricing...what they charge for some of these drugs is insane and they hold peoples lives hostage.


Sure, but that was also in part a choice of some of the free market folks. The government cannot really negotiate drug prices very effectively. Same with most other measures.


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    We definitely need better government oversight on these corporations and while I don't think Trump is as bad as the 20 posts here and the media portray him as...he is definitely part of this problem. He's a business/company man through and through...so that's all he cares about and that's his agenda...which is bad for all of us.


I think he is about as bad or worse really, the focus just shifts a fair bit. I am not sure of one area where he is doing a bang up job. In most areas he is only listening to idealogues in his administration.

If we are only talking about the point in question than taking out a main portion of the ACA without replacing the act is cruel. It hurts American's for no other reason than because they can. They would likely argue that it forces Democrats to the table but even then it is cruel to use everyday people as political leverage because they are otherwise going to have more insurance issues because of the actions taken. That is a hostage situation. It is not how this is to work. Or shouldn't anyway.

The tax bill itself does have cuts for everybody for the first few years but is heavily weighted towards the top in terms of benefits. Particularly for guys like Trump. The middle class and lower cuts and many of the benefits gained sunset. With the only hope being that some future Congress keeps them.

We have a territorial system for coorporation that makes it more efficient to keep money earned elsewhere there. Why bring it back and get taxed at a lower rate and potentially taxed again on it?

I think the worst thing is how it was all sold in the first place. The idea that giving the rich leads to reinvestment and more jobs and wages has never been true but since the 80's there has been a major disconnect between wages and productivity.

In addition, where would the people come for this huge boom in jobs? The economy is around what is considered full employment and many companies are having trouble finding people as it is. At that to the zeal of keeping immigrants out of the country and there are even fewer workers. The incentive would then be to automate as much as possible. An increased pressure to do that to avoid paying workers too much more, save in the long term and take the tax credits available for that.

Not saying there will be no benefit, but this bill is not helping the average person too much. The biggest things for that would be the increase in the standard deduction and slight dips in the rates, but the loss of various other things and the sunset provisions will lead to this being very one sided.

Trump will sign anything that comes to his desk at this point. He is so desperate for a win that he really does not care about the state of the health insurance markets or what the tax plan may or may not do down the road. And it being passed in such a partisan way (hyper partisan by any standard) pretty much means that we get to look forward to more uncertainty in the tax code and every other thing in the near future.

Which is ridiculous. Same with judges at the moment. Some pretty unqualified people are getting in. A few have been stopped because there was no choice. That they are conservative is to be expected, but it is ironic they all yelled about Obama court packing. The whole thing is a joke.

Nobody ever cares about the standard person too much but for whatever reason many people will happily buy whatever the GOP is selling. Not sure if it sounds simple or the conservative media is just a better echo chamber that makes their base more rock solid.






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