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Post By
Jeff M

Member Since: Fri Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 179
In Reply To

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,810
Subj: Re: A more coherent defense of the Justice League film...
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 at 12:36:01 am EST (Viewed 771 times)
Reply Subj: Re: A more coherent defense of the Justice League film...
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 at 08:50:12 am EST (Viewed 792 times)

Previous Post

    The movie creates the proper emotional resonance as it assembles the pantheon of heroes at their respective tiers.

Outside of Wonder Woman and Flash, no, the movie doesn't. Batman comes off as meek and befuddled. Aquaman is a one dimensional dude. Cyborg is just bland. Superman is still lacking in personality.

    The movie is also not a three hour deep psychological look into the complexities and motivations of the villain.

But would it have hurt the movie to spend more than 3 seconds on making the villain more complex and less generic?

    It’s their movie, they get the focus. In this case, the evil forces are there to be a threat requiring the team up.

But if the threat is not interesting, then the reason for the team is not that interesting. The reason for the team is even less interesting when it looks like Superman can do most of what the team can do by himself. If he's about as fast as Flash, that makes Flash redundant.

    Individual character development is for their solo movies. The development here was of the team dynamic and how they each fit into it. besides, as Iconic characters, they are archetypes, we already know who they are.

Except the movie characters aren't the same archetypal characters they are in the comics. Flash is now the newbie comic relief. That's definitely not Barry in the comics. Aquaman is now macho alpha male. He's a far more level-headed, noble character in the comics. And the movie does try to do too much character development - Aquaman on his loner status, Flash's feelings about his incarcerated father, Cyborg's resentment of his father turning him into half machine - but the movie simply doesn't have time to do any of this justice or does it ineptly.

    Steppenwolf is the bad guy, and fairly one dimensional, along with his Parademons. This is exactly what the story needs.

Not EXACTLY. The Avengers had a bad guy with his own army, but man, Loki is a hundred times more interesting as a villain than Steppenwolf and that helped The Avengers a lot. Steppenwolf just makes Justice League less interesting.

    Steppenwolf needed to be a foe requiring the entire League to form together to oppose, and an indication of greater Darkseidy threats inspiring them to stay together and expand their ranks.

Except for one mention of Darkseid, the movie doesn't impart any massive forthcoming threat, so no, that doesn't work. Also we see Superman alone putting a beat down on Steppenwolf, so that certainly doesn't make him seem like a foe "requiring the entire League to form together to oppose." Steppenwolf himself gives the reason for invading now due to Superman being dead, implicitly acknowledging that Superman alone is too much of a threat to him.

    In both areas he was successful. He was a plot driving evil force, not a complex multi layered adversary…because it’s not his movie.

This sounds like intense rationalizing of something bad into something good in order to justify your liking of the movie. Admitting Steppenwolf is just a transparent plot device is basically admitting the movie didn't know how to do its job. A "complex multi layered adversary" is not a bad thing. Would you really prefer a "Steppenwolf" to a "Loki"?

The rest of your post was TL;DR.

You are correct that the post was long.
After being a fan of these characters for well over 40 years, I got excited and didn't split it into "spoiler" and "non spoiler" reviews over two separate posts like I have in the past.

I am clearly in error for having come out of this film feeling happy and having enjoyed myself watching versions of characters I've been a fan of my entire life. I also must be in error feeling the movie captured the spirit of those characters, which I have read about and watched various versions of over those past four decades, within its run time.

Instead I should be completely angered and upset that the movie wasn't much longer to give a full and rich back story to the first time heroes. And also it needed more extra time onto that to have a bad guy who had his own back story, motivation and highly complex personality. I should be demanding a Bane type character, created and fleshed out in detail for Knightfall, and because of that able to be used in "Bane of the Demon" and "Secret Six" as a complex character, instead of a character like Doomsday, created as a plot device for "the Death of Superman" in order to get the story to the point where it could focus on the other characters and their reactions, which was the point of the piece.

Yes, I like Loki, but he had a whole movie before the Avengers to develop. I also like Alien films. Its the other characters' reactions to the threat of the Xenomorphs that make those films work. The Xenomorphs don't have hopes, dreams or psychological hang ups.

I shall make sure to drop an anvil on my foot when I see Justice League in the theater again, and when I buy it the first day of its home release, to insure I am unhappy.

I do need to correct you on one point. I never said the League matched the personalities of the comics. In fact, if my prose style wasn't so drab and awful that you were unable to finish the post, you'd have seen where I specifically point out differences from the comics, and blending of different versions from comics and other versions.

What I said is they are archetypes. Aquaman is a sea lord, Flash is a speedster. We can learn more about their individual stories in their own movies. This film showed how they worked together to build the "pantheon."
And it made me go, "Yay!" alot.

Most of the time, that's all I ask from a movie.


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