Punisher/MAX >> View Post
Post By

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,535
In Reply To

Subj: Re: Frank's new place in Marvel: Is he finally gaining the popularity he deserves?
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 at 01:42:40 pm EDT (Viewed 338 times)
Reply Subj: Frank's new place in Marvel: Is he finally gaining the popularity he deserves?
Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 at 05:54:57 pm EDT (Viewed 332 times)

    They actually explained it fairly well. Tony even complimented in the ingenuity of it. I am LOVING this. This really shows that Frank Castle=Marvel's Batman in many ways. I know many people say Cap/T'Challa are. But I think Frank is just as smart as Bruce Wayne, and after the bloodstone regeneration he's now got 55+ years of experience in the physically perfect body of a Jason Bourne-Meets-Rambo-meets-James Bond+Charles Bronson's Death Wish x10 skillset. This is the guy who is so respected in certain circles that marvel ahs allowed him to be one of the few survivors of several apocalypses and the cause of two.

Frank and Batman are two different types of smart.

Frank is a tactical genius, capible of analysing his environment, foe, the tools at his disposal etc and turning them to his advantage.

Batman however is a straight out super-genius. He is just as capible with tactics and psychology as Frank is, but also has the kind of lab skills we usually only see from Marvels biggest brains. With this in mind I think that the T'Chilla comparison with Batman is much more accurate.

As for the Bloodstone regeneration - it appears that has now been forgotton as Greg Rucka during his run retconned Frank from being a Vietnam veteran to being a Gulf I veteran. Its something I argued was unnecessary in light of the Bloodstone thing, and I also argued that Vietnam was crucial to Franks character, but until someone at Marvel says otherwise then a Gulf I veteran he is.

I dont agree that Frank is 'so respected' at Marvel that they allowed him to star in so many extinction level events, I simply think that out of all of there characters he is the most appropriate to appear in those kinds of stories because he's the ultimate survivalist. Bear in mind as well that those stories we out of continuity mini-series, and none of them sold especially well.

Sadly, I dont think there is any evidence of Franks 'new found popularity'. Despite the fact that I greatly enjoyed Ruckas run on the title and the Warzone mini as well as the various mini-series, the facts are thatthe sales for these books werent enough to justify a sustained run of his own title and are the reason why The Punisher doesnt have a solo title of his own at the moment.

    This is continuity proof that he is an Avengers-level foe and his biggest problem is he doesn't have super-villains like this to take on. He could be as popular as Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine. I wouldn't begrudge him getting a Nick Fury-styled upgrade where he doesn't age normally, or a partial super-soldier upgrade, maybe by a fan of his that works in SHIELD that captures him and gives him an Infinity/SS crossover, it mixes with the latent Bloodstone particles that are in his body and throughout his blood, in his DNA. It doesn't make him Wolverine, or Captain America, but it makes him capable of fighting his war for a long, long time. Frank of course nearly kills the man for doing it but is stopped.

Historically I think this has always been the case. Frank has a long legacy of trumping vastly more powerful foes, be they heroes or villains. I dont think Warzone changed that.

As for anti-aging or whatever - the latter is now unecessary because, ragardless as to whether the Gulf I retcon or the Bloodstone regeneration are canon, the fact is that Franks age probably isnt going to be a continuity problem for another 40 years.

I certainly dont support Frank getting the infinity formula whilst the original Nick Fury has to go without, and it makes no sense for Marvel to give it Frank whilst trying to convince us that at the moment they cant give it to Nick.

With regards the powers thing - as youve explained so far, its unnecessary as Frank has more than shown himself as capible of competing without them.

All powers will do is make writers and the character lazy. Instead of having Frank think of some genius way to defeat the villain or escape the trap, they'll just have him strong-arm his way out or something.

    Right now he found a place in Thunderbolts, and I'm loving it. Him with Elektra? Awesome. Him with Red Hulk? Awesome, I Wish it was Gravage Hulk, the current Hulk and hopefully the Hulk we come to see in the movies--But we saw him in a crossover with that Hulk who gave Frank a huge amount of respect in "Stay Angry" they relate to each other. So does Thunderbolt Ross, both are soldiers, both are suffering disillusionment from their previous ways of living. Both have had to face off against half of the superhero community. Both have been given a second change.

Unfortunately I'm really disappointed with Thunderbolts at the moment. Its got a great roster of characters but its done nothing but bore me so far. I cant really see the point of it as a book, its dragging, and as much as I like Steve Dillons artwork elsewhere, in this book it just doesnt work.

It would be much more interesting if any of that interaction you describe between Ross and Frank actually happened, but it didnt! Theres been almost no discourse between the two and pretty much no evidence of them being kindred spirits beyond their very brief conversation in the first issue. The general lack of dialogue in the title as a whole is one of the things that is wrong with it.

    Looking into Thunderbolts, his skull becomes red for a fairly silly reason (Red Gamma radiation? Alright, that's cool) but he gains a suit of armor that appears to be as tough as perhaps a lower-level Iron Man breastplate, which is sure saying something. I feel Frank needs a suit or a slight upgrade, nothing like Angel or Franken-Punisher, but something that would allow him to really go rounds with Red Hulk, if need be. Right now he can do rounds with anyone and it's his limitations (and how he pushes himself beyond them constantly ) that are awesome.

I didnt care for the gamma-armour (or the hair dryer-like ray guns). I dont think it makes Frank more interesting, and it looks on face value that the only real reason it was put in the story was so that frank could pull his trick with the landmine against Madman.

Personally I think it would have been much better and much more in character for Frank to take Madman down in a similar manner as he did Nightmare in the recent mini series - distracting or enraging him long enough to lure him into a cleverly laid trap. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier when I suggested that making frank stronger or tougher just makes writers lazy.

    But I feel PunisherMAX did something that no other writer-Including Ennis-Did, which was show Frank had injuries adding up (something I want to see more of in Batman, who I'd like to see being placed in his 40s in the next decade instead of yet another reboot, he was there in Batman Inc pre 2010 but alas...I digress. Frank belongs being tied to Vietnam but he shouldn't always have those sensibilities (like how Fury has evolved with time). I'd like to see a Frank that is a bit more...enigmatic, a guy who might be 10-15 steps ahead of most of his peers, always looking at some angle, joining the Thunderbolts was largely out of character for him, but he saw the purpose behind it. He is finding a place there. I Hope he doesn't do the "Wildcard" thing to the point he winds up kicked out or hunted by them within 3 years...which always seems to happen to one of these guys \:P

I think Frank is plenty enigmatic. Really, its one of his more consistant character traits - the proverbial man of few words. Frank has also historically shown himself as being able to stay several steps ahead of his opponants through planning and preparation. Nothing needs to change in this respect.

I agree that Frank needs to stay tied to vietnam (for all the reasons I mentioned in an earlier thread in which I compared the character to Stallones Rambo), but I think I would prefer him to remain more or less unflinching in his morals, character and opinions rather than have him adopt a softer, more considerate edge. They tried that in the original War Journal series - had Frank trying to look at things from others perspective, giving criminals the benefit of the doubt, using mercy bullets etc, and later when he joined the mob in order to try and control it from the inside - but I just dont think those ideas worked, and they were far too much of a departure for the character.

Posted with Mozilla Firefox 18.0 on Windows XP
Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2017 Powermad Software
All the content of these boards Copyright © 1996-2017 by Alvaro Ortiz and Dave Galanter. Software Copyright © 2003-2017 Powermad Software