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Iron Man Unit 007

Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 3,360
In Reply To
America's Captain 
Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,418
Subj: Re: Thomas and Englehart
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 at 07:56:25 pm EST (Viewed 98 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Thomas and Englehart
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 at 08:31:05 am EST (Viewed 108 times)

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    Quote:
    Well the Torch at times was written as having some mechanical parts and at other times, not having mechanical parts.



    Quote:
    Clearly the writers had their own ideas about the construction of the android Torch, and also as I recall the "Horton" that we saw in the Avengers West Coast stories where Vision was dismantled was one of Immortus' Space Phantoms impersonating Horton as part of the overall plan.


See this is where my eyes start to glaze over.

I'll be honest. Comments on this thread have softened my attitude toward one concept: the Vision having the Torch's body. It wasn't necessary and did not improve the character of the Vision one iota, but OK, if it explained what happened to Jim Hammond so we wouldn't have two Torches flying around (which of course we eventually did any way) I don't mind it that much, because while it doesn't improve the Vision, nevertheless, it doesn't diminish him either.

But Space Phantoms? Come on. What the heck? Why couldn't Ultron have simply taken Jim Hammond's body and refashioned it into the Vision's? So simple!

Was Horton under space phantom replacement when he created the Torch in the first place or was this some later development?


    Quote:
    A more definitive detailed analysis of Torch's construction was done by the Mad Thinker in the Torch 8 issue miniseries that had the Thinker restore the Torch to functionality.


I liked that mini-series.


    Quote:
    Horton apparently created artificial cells that Thinker dubbed Horton Cells. The cells contain great amounts of energy, are synthetic, etc and that Torch's body is apparently completely constructed of them and that combustion was an unintended side effect. Thinker learned how to recreate the cells and thus was able to regenerate the Torch and witness the new cells forming where needed to put Torch back together from when he was blown apart the last time.


Nice guy, that Thinker. (Seriously. At least at this point in the story.)


    Quote:
    Despite the Thinker's study of the Torch, which I think Richards later in that series verified, and despite Avengers Forever showing Immortus replicating the Torch so that one could be the Vision, I think both Torch and Vision should submit to a thorough comparison and analysis by Henry Pym and have The Mad Thinker in on it as well. The Thinker is well versed on the design of the Torch as is Pym.


And of course we needed all the Immortus rig-a-ma-role because NOW we WANTED two Torches flying around.


    Quote:
    Ultron clearly modified the Torch he had found, likely he added mechanical parts to it and somehow switched the powers from flame to density control and super strength. Clearly the real Horton was forced to help him until Ultron killed him. But what other changes did he do to the Vision? Also could the Vision's powers be adjusted so that he again has Torch powers?


The Vision's solar vision is a reasonable facsimile of the Torch's main power.


No it was the real Horton that was forced by Ultron to reformat the Torch that he found into the Vision.

Horton refused to erase Torch's mind since he came to feel the Torch was his son.

Torch/Vision came online, attacked Ultron, Ultron killed Horton and defeats Torch/Vision since Torch didn't know what his new powers were.

Ultron then used Simon's brain waves to overwrite Torch's mind and create the Vision.

As to the Space Phantoms and Immortus, it was all part of the plot to drive Wanda nuts and make her susceptible to Immortus controlling her.

The fake Horton was there to sow some confusion among the Avengers and keep them busy with investigating the Vision and whether he really was the Torch. Also the fake Horton did not state at all that Ultron forced him into reformatting the Torch which added to the confusion.


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