Quote:Okay the thread below is getting a bit lengthy so I figured I'd post this here.
Quote:Years ago in the Golden Age there was an android Human Torch. He overloaded and shut down in the 50's and was gathering dust.
Quote:Timely Comics becomes Marvel Comics.
Quote:The Fantastic Four are created and Johnny Storm is now the human torch.
Quote:Years later in FF annual 4, the Mad Thinker reactivated the android Torch and he fight Johnny and ends up deactivated again. His body is left in the Thinker's lab by Reed as Reed stated a lab was where he was born and should rest......okay that is just stupid writing. Reed should have at least taken the android Torch to FF HQ for storage and study.
Quote:In the Submariner series at the time, around issue 14 (I think), the Torch's old partner Toro was lured into a trap by the Thinker who had somehow enslaved a town and staged a funeral for the android Torch as bait. Toro gets captured and enslaved, breaks free and perishes in a fiery explosion as he attempted to destroy the Thinker's rocket ship.
Go figure....a character with immunity to fire and can absorb flame/heat killed in a fiery explosion.......
So we have the android Torch buried for years in a forgotten and unknown grave in a small town cemetery and of course the town's memory of it is wiped.
Quote:Yet Ultron apparently confronted the Thinker, Ultron wanted an android to make as his own and Thinker tells him of the lab where the Torch was left after his failed attack on the FF. Ultron finds the Torch there and takes him to Horton for reformatting and the Vision is created.
Quote:Thus the Torch is gone forever.....yet there is a Torch in that grave.
Quote:Slight oversight by the writers and editors perhaps?
Is that really a mistake by the writers?
Englehart says Jim was reformatted into Vision. Presumably in his version of events the Thinker dug Jim up.
Byrne says Torch wasn't reformatted into Vision and is buried in a cemetery. That's just a new piece of information offered by Byrne and not really a mistake on his or Englehart's part is it?
Quote:Hence comes Immortus as that plot device to fix this error by using his time powers to temporally replicate the Torch. One Torch becomes the Vision and the other lays dormant for years until the Avengers West Coast find him and switch him back on.
Quote:Thus the explanation Hank Pym had in Avengers West 50 of Vision being built from spare parts of the Torch is tossed out and the Ultron reformatting the Torch origin is essentially restored.
Quote:The Torch that became the Vision was rebuilt and reformatted by Ultron with assist from Horton who was killed by Ultron.
Truly this is as big a Gordian Knot as the continuity/retcons to Captain America and the Red Skull from the Golden Age to the Marvel Universe.
The Avengers Forever 12 issues series offers explanations in issue 8 regarding Vision and Jim, and how what happened with Vision and Scarlet Witch was indeed a long plot of Immortus