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Post By
seeker

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,732
In Reply To
bouken red

Member Since: Sat Jul 15, 2017
Posts: 170
Subj: Re: I already pointed these out. Doesn't matter...
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 at 11:07:19 pm EDT (Viewed 69 times)
Reply Subj: I already pointed these out. Doesn't matter...
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 at 08:28:40 pm EDT (Viewed 75 times)



    Quote:
    .That is essentially the same as your proposition in exterminating the entire race of dark elves and fire demons. It means little that Galactus is somehow some innocent victim of a cosmic joke.


I would beg to differ.  I specifically drew a different beteween some violent races and others.  That is why I did not mention the Frost Giants.  While violent, they can be managed.  Galactus and his heralds can be reasoned with or at least avoided.  Galactus is different than say his creation Tyrant or first herald the Fallen One who are evil entities that destroy for no other than they they want to.


    Quote:
    And about Galactus being innocent...not really. Some writer may have written that he somehow wants to cure himself of his hunger...but most writers write him as indifferent, and totally without concern whether he consumes an inhabited world or no But there are also other writers who depicts Galactus as being vengeful,

That is a problem all characters have.  Some writers portray Odin as a wise king.  Others as unreasonable, but still benevolent.  And others as an outright tyrant.


    Quote:
    About the Celestials having some sort of benevolent motive...sure, in "Alone Against the Celestials", maybe....but all the other depictions of the Celestials are unconcerned about good or evil. Their ultimate goal is not known. Writers make it up as they go along, and with what works for their particular story. But most depictions show the Celestials are amoral. They don't care about good or evil. They just do things for their own selfish motives, nothing more.

    quote] What benevolent motive did they have when future Celestials used future Galactus in trying to destroy the universe? (As told in Fantastic Four guest starring Thor and Iron Man)


Wasn't that  the rogue Dreaming Celestial who at the time was considered a villain even by the other Celestials?  I don't see how that can be used against the others.



    Quote:
    Their motives is not known to lesser beings? Maybe. But  should those lesser beings just let the Celestials exterminate them due to their unknown purpose? No. They are not malicious? Again, one cannot have malice towards insects. Should they just let them be experimented on? Should Marvel earth and the heroes let the Celestials destroy the planet? Not according to most strories in the past.

The right to fight for survival is a fundamental right of all living beings.  That is something the Living Tribunal itself made clear during the Infinity Gauntlet.  Just as humans have the right to fight the likes of Galactus and Celestials a virus would have the right to fight for its own survival.   


    Quote:
    Just to be clear and lest there be any confusion, I am not espousing the idea that Celestials or Galactus should be exterminated. Exterminating entire  races, including those who are not guilty if it meant stopping those who have malicious intent is just plain wrong. I mentioned the Celestials and Galactus as extreme examples of threats that far outweigh the dangers posed by fire demons and dark elves, but exterminating them is still not the right thing to do.

And just for me to be clear, I am still playing devil's advocate in a fictional univesre. 

But I still draw a difference. Galactus and Celestials are higher beings that, depending on the writer operate by an alien mindset. To them, humans, elves even gods are little more than insects, rats or cows.  Good and Evil are not dualities the higher beings of the Marvel Universe generally concern themselves with.  Malekith and the Dark Elves do not have that excuse. They do not have the same alien mindset.  They are not higher beings.   They know what they are doing is evil and do it anyway. 

Asgard does not have the power to police the universe.   Focusing on their own backyard is often the best they can do.  Threats like Galactus and the Celestials are beyond their power to cope with (usually).  That is why I focused on those threats instead of ones in the greater universe. 

Also, in any story that the heroes consider an option like this it should be considered a very last option where others have been considered and exhausted.  In the case of the Dark Elves and Fire Demons, there is a long list of things Asgard could try besides only beating them back to their home realms and waiting for them to attack again.

Honestly, that is one reason I have been disappointed in the War of the Realm's story.  Despite how long it it, Aaron has not bothered to explore the Fire Demons are Dark Elves beyond one-dimensional villains.