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Member Since: Fri Aug 21, 2015
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,852
Subj: The non-political answer...
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 at 01:17:35 pm EST (Viewed 182 times)
Reply Subj: What is the moral Aaron is trying to get across? Also, are these flaws in his writing or is it just me? All opinions welcomed.
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 at 11:53:02 am EST (Viewed 274 times)

Firstly let me say that I agree with the response of Thorion_5 in that you cannot divorce the political agenda from this; BUT I am going to try my best to discuss the mindset involved, rather than anything overtly political.


    1. The Unfortunate Implications of the Reason Thor is Unworthy - The reason given is all gods everywhere are petty, a-holes unworthy of the worship mortals give him. So, Aaron is saying that the billion upon billions of diverse gods across the universe are all the same regardless of creed, pantheon, aspect, gender, skin tone, etc. Not a pantheon or type of god, but all of them. And taken to a logical extreme the universe and mortals would be better off without all of them. Anyone else bothered by that statement? Isn’t that the same as saying that all mortals are evil and the universe would be better off without them based on a few races like the Skrulls and Kree? The idea that mortals are superior lifeforms to the gods instead of at least some idea of equality?

Mindset: Inferiority Complex coupled with an Us vs. Them Group Identity.

Individuals with power MUST have exploited others to gain that power and thus are automatically evil; while those (seemingly) without power are automatically virtuous regardless of their actions.

    2. The Source of the Claim - Aaron’s source is Gorr and Nick Fury aka a sadistic, hypocritical madman and a known liar and manipulator who had every reason to try and deceive Thor. Also, Watchers are not all-knowing. That is why they share information. Why should the comic reader or Thor believe anything they say? If they cannot be believed then doesn’t that undermine his entire message about them? Why does he not address the elephant in the room that proves him wrong that is Thor, Hercules, Perun, Asgardians in general, the Canadian gods, etc?

Mindset: The ends justifies the means (in modern parlance "By Any Means Necessary")

Using lies to achieve your goals is okay because we (the In Group, in this instance mortals) already believe the vilified Out Group (in this case Gods) are evil; thus they don't deserve the same rights or treatment as us.

    3. The Heavy Use of Retcons and Characterizations- I understand why a writer sometimes needs to retcon things. There is a lot of history to keep track of and some of it is unimportant or so minor it does not matter much. But if you have to make major retcon after retcon and radically change characterizations it can throw off long-time readers though admittedly not new ones. If you have to force characters to fit a story like trying to force a square into a round hole might it be a writer is telling the wrong story? Also, I find it lazy since the writer cannot find a way to make his story fit so he changes whatever inconveniences him.

Mindset: A lie told often enough becomes the truth.

Rewrite history to reinforce the narrative you are trying to establish.

Formerly loving, wise, benevolent, heroic leader Odin retconned into being a hateful, stupid, murdering, coward.

    4. The Extremely One-Sided/One-Dimensional Arguments Aaron is using - I understand why a writer might sometimes portray only one side of an argument as an extreme. Due to time constraints or audience it gets the writers point across quickly. Aaron does not have either of those excuses. Despite that he has repeatedly depicted the gods as one-dimensional characterizes without bothering to try and explore WHY THEY ARE THAT WAY. I find this to be lazy since it is a short cut. Aaron does not have to present an argument on why Jane is correct. All he has done is show why the gods are wrong. It forces the reader to agree with Jane-Thor because the gods are so horrible no one in their right mind would side with them.

Mindset: Feelings > Facts

The burden of proof is on the accused. Guilty until proven innocent.

If one of the Out Group (Gods) has ever done anything bad then they are ALL bad, we don't need to prove anything. Its a completely black and white issue. Some rich and powerful people have done bad things so ALL rich and powerful people need to be punished as a result. Individuality is irrelevant.

    5. What are Jason’s ideal gods supposed to be like? - The story has repeatedly gotten on the gods not only for mistreating their worshippers but for ignoring them as well. As far as I can tell, Aaron thinks the gods should take a heavy-handed approach to mortals and essentially be their babysitters since even a god who protects them and inspires them is considered unworthy. This idea is enabling and other stories have already gone into why this is a bad idea. So what is Aaron trying to say? What are his ideal gods?

Mindset: The Bogeyman

Self-imagined Victims must always have an imaginary Villain who oppresses them, if one does not exist you need to create one to maintain the Group Identity (Thor #702: "Death to the Patriarchy!").

Gods are symbols of oppression (because they have power) therefore mortals (like Gorr or Jane) must take the power away from them, yet once they do they become that which they despise.

    6. Humans Are Superior - I can only assume this is what Aaron is going for based on his biased depiction. It is a popular enough trope to show humans as being better at least morally than the Other. I don’t like it because the radically way it says humans are morally superior given the well-known history in Marvel that shows humanity as bad as if not worse than the gods. If Jane is proud to be human then why shouldn’t Thor be proud to be a god?

Mindset: Projection of feelings, guilt.

Rather than Prove why gods are unworthy* Aaron believes/fears that power would corrupt HIM, thus projecting his own guilt/fear onto the gods.

*and dismissing Thor's 50+ year history of being worthy.

    7. The Glorification of Suffering/Martyrdom - Jane is willing to use a magic hammer yet unwilling to take a magical cure claiming it always has a price. One, this is hypocritical. Two, This is untrue (at least before Aaron) because we have seen entire societies based on magic and other magic uses regularly use it without any backslash. Aaron has made a big deal about Jane’s sacrifice and I realize it is meant to give her character depth and prove why she is worthy. But Thor already is willing to sacrifice his life for mortals. If having a frail body is what makes one more worthy than another and rejecting a cure that is a glorification of suffering and I want nothing to do with it.

Mindset: Playing the Victim

Those with victim status are part of the (morally superior) In Group. This gives them carte blanche to act selfishly (taking Thor's name), arrogantly (don't touch me) and disdainfully (mocking Thor's arm) and excuses them of any responsibility for their own words and actions.

Note also how RiRi STEALS the parts for her Armour, INVADES

    8. Finally, what is the message Aaron is ultimately trying to tell? What is it that makes one worthy? - Exploring worthiness is supposed to be what Aaron’s run is about and Foster embodies what Aaron thinks it means to be worthy. Yet Jane is doing nothing different than what Thor did when he was wielding Mjolnir. So what makes her better than him? Being mortal? Humans Are Superior?

Mindset: Hive Mind

Being part of a (self-imagined individually powerless) collective In Group is what makes you worthy.

Whereas individual acts of heroism and valour are irrelevant, it doesn't matter if Thor saves the Earth a hundred times over because at the end of the day he's always going to be part of the Out Group and thus unworthy.

Individuality is dead, long live the Group identity.

Strength/Success = Evil, Weakness/Failure = Virtuous

Judge not by actions and words but by Group Identity.

You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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