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Post By
Reverend Meteor

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,127
In Reply To
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,528
Subj: Re: You may be totally right
Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 at 11:03:51 am EST (Viewed 680 times)
Reply Subj: Re: You may be totally right
Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 at 07:26:56 am EST (Viewed 708 times)


      Both Heinrich and Helmut are racist. Helmut made a racist remark about Falcon way back in Helmut's first appearance. Helmut's racism still came up from time to time in Nicieza's Thunderbolts run.

      When JM Dematteis brought Helmut back as the new Baron Zemo (originally he was the Phoenix in that first appearance) Helmut at that point was kind of like what you're talking about. But still you know...racist (hated Falcon), homophobic (hated Arnie Roth, turned him and his lover into mutates) and sexist. On a scale of racist to not racist I would say he's somewhere less than Nazi level racism and more at racist southern grandpa level.

One thing I liked about that storyline is in a way it toys with the themes in Helmut's life that would become much more important later in Thunderbolts. You see Mother Superior trying to teach Helmut to be a "great man" and one with vision. You see her training him to be a better fighter (something he is adept at by the time he's a Thunderbolt)...we're told in Thunderbolts Heinrich thought fighting was beneath a Zemo. We see Helmut eventually part ways with Mother Superior in (IMO) a heroic act of defiance. For all of Heinrich's evil I think Helmut truly believed his father loved him. The Red Skull was just empty hate and that's all he passed on to Mother Superior...he was never a loving father. So in the end Helmut rebuked the Red Skull and showed he didn't really stand for the same things IMO. Helmut is complicated and contradictory and it's a pattern that popped up again and again in Thunderbolts. He's a nasty guy but there is some good buried in there the very least he knows how useless blind evil like Heinrich and Johann's evil really is. He wants something better.

This storyline sort of prepared for him for his later destiny of being a bigger villain and later anti-hero.

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