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Post By
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,133
In Reply To
Reverend Meteor

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,351
Subj: Re: Exactly. It Is A Matter Of Nostalgia.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 at 01:10:21 pm EDT (Viewed 71 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Exactly. It Is A Matter Of Nostalgia.
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 at 09:23:50 am EDT (Viewed 76 times)



    Quote:
    I don't think it is about nostalgia.

    1. Has the X-Men gotten along fine without Jean? No. The past several years have been awful. I thought X-Men vs Inhumans was about as much fun as licking shower scum.

    2. If Jean is so useless then why do we have teen Jean, Hope and Phoenix running around? We have those 3 characters taking her place. If Jean is so irrelevant get rid of teen Jean. If Jean is relevant get rid of the teenage version and just use the real one.

    3. She's one of the originals. No one has any business killing her off and expecting her to stay dead! The Dark Phoenix story may have been great but Claremont should have never done it IMO.

    4. I don't want her back to relive her glory days. She never had any. She's always been wasted. But with Logan, Scott and Charles off the board she finally has the opportunity to reinvent herself.

    I'm not angry because they killed off a great character. I'm angry because they killed off a character who was always treated as a victim and never given any real control over her life when she could have been great if given a chance to find her niche. She's the Sansa Stark of the X-Men going from one degradation to the next.


Actually, I think that's what the Rachel Summers character was supposed to become.

Rachel was supposed to master her Phoenix powers contrary to the Earth-616 version of her mother because she was coming from a world where mutant genocide was already a reality and where she had been brainwashed to behave as a mutant hunter.

It was before the X-Factor retcon making the Phoenix Force an autonomous entity.

Rachel was the new Phoenix because she was the biological daughter of the Jean Grey of her timeline and, from the ashes of tragedy (Days of Future Past & Dark Phoenix), a new Phoenix would rise, a woman who would learn to control the power.

That's why she was so gloomy in her first appearances and, why she became much more optimistic in Excalibur.

I think that Rachel Summers is a classic character in her own right since she was created by Claremont & Byrne and not one of the second hand ersatz that appeared later (such as Hope Summers).



    Quote:
    1. Has the X-Men gotten along fine without Jean? No.


Of course, they have : from 1980 to 1986, the X-Men book was an excellent comics and Jean Grey was nowhere around.

Even after Jean Grey's return in 1986, there was nearly no interaction between the X-Men team & the X-Factor team until the 1989 Inferno crossover.

During 9 years, the X-Men were perfectly fine without Jean Grey appearing in the book.


    Quote:
    2. If Jean is so useless then why do we have teen Jean, Hope and Phoenix running around? We have those 3 characters taking her place. If Jean is so irrelevant get rid of teen Jean. If Jean is relevant get rid of the teenage version and just use the real one.


Teen Jean came along with the other X-Kids.

Much more than Jean Grey herself, it is the Phoenix Force which is always making a comeback and I am fed up ad nauseam to see it again.

Cyclops & the other Phoenix Five killing Xavier was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

I am fed up of current writers desperately trying to mimic the Dark Phoenix saga. The result is always pathetic.

Contrary to what you are thinking, it is the Phoenix which will come back, not Silver Age Jean Grey trying to reinvent herself.

I am certain of that and, again, everybody will be very, very disappointed.

It is only a commercial gimmick because of the 2018 Dark Phoenix movie.