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Post By
Menshevik

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,140
In Reply To
America's Captain 
Maintainer

Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,528
Subj: Re: Yes. And Chaos War's Dead X-Men team.
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 at 04:18:06 am CST (Viewed 143 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Yes. And Chaos War's Dead X-Men team.
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 at 07:10:10 am CST (Viewed 157 times)



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      It is interesting to me that this was the only time I can remember when fans were engaged in shipping discussions about him (many wanted to pair him up with Emma Frost).



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    I was surprised by how nice Emma was in the early issues of Generation X. It really seemed odd to me.


At the time it made a lot of sense to me -- she was turning over a new leaf, cut her ties to her old allies and acquaintances, and she after failing her original pupils (most of whom had ended up dead) she was trying to do better by her new ones. Lobdellian Emma to me made a lot more sense than Morrisonian Super-Emma (who behaved like a villain yet readers were expected to look on her as a hero because reasons).


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      I think he has two basic problems:

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        1) He is at heart a nice guy, positive and stable both as a father and a romantic partner, with no inner conflicts or reasons to feel bad about himself. If I want to compare him to someone, the characters who come to mind are characters like Uncle Ben or Joe Robertson - people you love as a reader, but simply are too "smooth", too lacking in rough edges to take the lead in a story.



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    I guess I'm weird in that I don't need my protagonists to be conflicted or down on themselves. In fact, while I have no desire to read an Uncle Ben comic, I would at least sample a Joe Robertson comic. I've long wished a newspaper reporter could somehow manage to headline a successful comic. Maybe Joe could do it. I guess it's doubtful, but still I can dream. He'd have to get out of the newsroom, of course. It's the investigating that's interesting. And he would need a recurring cop character to save him when he got in too deep. (That's why Lois Lane doesn't work as a solo protagonist. Her backup is too over the top powerful and nearly omniscient with his super senses.) Spider-Man would of course help Joe if Spidey knew there was a problem, which probably wouldn't be all that often, though of course the inevitable (occasional) guest star cameo would be a part of the book.


Well, if you're looking for newspaper reporters headlining successful comic series, there's always Tintin, Brenda Starr and Spirou & Fantasio. \:\-\) And of course quite a few Golden and Silver Age superheroes worked as journalists, starting with good ol' Clark Kent himself.

Maybe I didn't word that right, but I was more thinking on the lines of a character having certain character traits which s/he would see as reasons for criticism, at least in other persons. (For instance, there's a lot to criticize in JJJ, but most of the time he's too self-centred to realize that, and that's part of why we love him). And so I'd say that Lois Lane works much better as a solo protagonist than Joe Robertson, she has some pronounced character traits (she's quite ambitious and very competitive, she tends to be impatient and will often throw caution into the wind, and at least post-Crisis she has issues with her father). I'd also say she has shown often enough that she can work as a solo protagonist or as Superman's co-protagonist despite not having superpowers herself.

With regards to Joe Robertson, here's a quote from his co-creator, Stan Lee, from the foreword to "The Best of Spider-Man" (a collection of newspaper strips published in 1986):

"I'm always intending to devote an entire story to Robbie sometime, but then whenever I start working out the plot, some other character usually intrudes and steals the spotlight. This has led me to a great truth, one which I shall now unselfishly divulge to you.
The toughest people to write about are the nice ones. Although they're the ones you'd want for friends in real life, in stories they're just not colorful enough. They're too pure, too good, too dull. I guess that's why nobody's yet done a movie about my life."


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    I've often felt Sean was sidelined in favor of his daughter. Yet it's not like the daughter appears all that much.


Sad but true.


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      But Cyclops definitely had his fuddy-duddiness problems too, or was it that he always seemed to have a stick up his bum? In the 1960s he struck me as terribly boring (getting me to think - Reed Richards is so staid and stiff because he is a generation older than Johnny Storm, but what is Scott's excuse?). He only became interesting for me under Claremont, when he developed an increasingly confrontational (oedipal?) relationship with both his spiritual father and his biological one. (Here one can even see him being resentful at Charles Xavier because he chose Jean to be his confidante when he faked his death and not Scott).



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    What I liked was the ongoing tension between Scott and Logan. If I had been the writer, I would have added even more pressure points, such as tension between Scott and Captain America, and between Scott and Nick Fury, which would have resulted in tension between the X-Men and the Avengers, and between the X-Men and SHIELD, all exacerbated by the personality conflicts surrounding Scott. Now that doesn't mean we'd have endlessly recurring hero-fights. The disagreements would play out in more complicated ways, usually involving Scott having no regard for the positions taken by the Avengers or SHIELD. I would also have made Scott and Namor frenemies, respecting and understanding one another while nevertheless often opposing one another, though occasionally they would team up, even if only so Namor could thumb his nose at Cap or Fury.


Personally I never got that into the Scott/Logan rivalry (I prefer Steve/Clint myself), perhaps because for a long time Scott tended to hold himself aloof from the other X-Men to a large degree and in effect could avoid going through a conflict with Wolvie by pulling rank. With a very few exceptions (notably his relationships to Jean and Charles) Scott had a tendency to keep his feelings to himself and act like a cold fish. And I think I'd rather see Logan play poker with Nick Fury and Ben Grimm than watch a conflict between Nick and Scott.


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    When you have characters who think they're always right (and often in fact are) the obvious thing to do is have them disagree and then just let the story tell itself.



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    I wonder where Banshee would fall on the "thinks he's always right" spectrum.


Pretty low, I'd say. He never really was one to push himself to the forefront...




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