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Tiamat


Location: Orlando
Member Since: Thu May 21, 2009
Posts: 1,144



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naiche




In a movie I don´t know, but in the comicbooks I want to see them back as Avengers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even if thy weren´t the greatest Avengers, they were Avengers, I loved them all!


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Oldman




From the great lake avengers....



Leather Boy \:D


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MarkTJohnson




Kurt Busiek is Latino?

Would have never guessed that.

Mark "Who DOES get credit for SilverClaw? And why isn't she in the Academy?" Johnson


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The Black Guardian

Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    Kurt Busiek is Latino?

    Would have never guessed that.

Although it's possible he's part Latino, the name is Polish.

    Quote:
    Mark "Who DOES get credit for SilverClaw? And why isn't she in the Academy?" Johnson

Honestly, I think she's too old for Academy. I would rather had see her in Young Allies than that new Toro.

Not sure if she was a Busiek idea that Perez drew, or a Perez idea that Busiek wrote, or a true combo.




City of Heroes is BACK!
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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689



    Quote:
    Kurt Busiek is Latino?


Maybe it's just me being overly sensitive but the article writer struck me as a bit racist when he drew the parallel between Kurt being Latino and Silverclaw being Latino and the character being a Mary Sue...as if he made the character Latino to service some sort of agenda.


That said...I don't believe Busiek is even Latino.







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Hank


Member Since: Fri Jul 01, 2011





    Quote:

    That said...I don't believe Busiek is even Latino.



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It is very possible since much of Latin America has European pockets in every country. Germans Brazil (even before WW2), Chinese Ecuador and Peru, Italians Argentina, English Costa Rica. Heck comedian Louis CK is actually Mexican.







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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689



    Quote:



    Quote:

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      That said...I don't believe Busiek is even Latino.

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    Quote:
    It is very possible since much of Latin America has European pockets in every country. Germans Brazil (even before WW2), Chinese Ecuador and Peru, Italians Argentina, English Costa Rica. Heck comedian Louis CK is actually Mexican.


Well he's a quarter Mexican. But yeah I knew that about Louie CK. Love his show.








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Tiamat


Location: Orlando
Member Since: Thu May 21, 2009
Posts: 1,144


Wow! So not suppost to be a race thing.
Sorry I posted it.
P.s. I was not the writer.


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Century: Your Alien Hero




Stingray? He was an Avenger for all of 5 minutes. D-Man was barely even an Avenger at all, and annoyingly, Century never actually joined at all.

Deathcry/Rage/Tirthlon were all deliberately written as abrasive for the first half of (or in Rage's case, most of) their time on the team, so it's no surprise that they're not really very popular with readers, and Druid even more so. And yet the "reasons" this list gives are pretty poor. They either knew who Century was, or did some research, and yet he and Deathcry both get "LOL 1990s suck haha" and that's it, aside from the continuation of the bizarre notion that putting an alien on the Avengers was "making them more like the X-Men"? And yes, Druid was a fat balding guy, and yet he actually WORKED during his time on the team, because he didn't need to be in fighting shape or have hair to use his mind powers, and he played the team like Tetris and took them over, and that was some Grade A Awesome.

Silverclaw and Gilgamesh were indeed terrible, however, I'll give them that, and Sentry is the only real "major character that Marvel devoted serious time and energy into Trying To Make Him Happen who was nonetheless massively unpopular" that's on this list, and THAT'S what I'd rather be seeing on these lists. Stop taking cheap-shots at D-listers and the guys who never quite made it, stop thinking you could get a whole other 10 out of Lionheart/Swordsman 2/Marrina, Masque/Darkhawk/Machine Man, Jack of Hearts*/Sandman/Two-Gun-Kid and Whizzer, and do something more relevant; the characters who have had enough staying power in the Avengers franchise, that there's a very real chance that they might show up in movies, but we shouldn't want them to, because they're boring or just awful.

Seriously, how many of these "lamest Avengers" lists have been put up onto the Internets over the years, and they all take the same quick and easy route of laughing at the guys who never made it, and singling out the intentionally-dislikable characters as thus being "bad characters we don't want to see."

I'd much rather see someone bring up the fact that like every other super-team, the Avengers have characters who, by inertia of always being around, or by being around during a large segment of the audience's formative years, are accepted as being important members of the group, who we'd expect to see show up eventually in any adaptation, from cartoons to movies, and it's harder to register that they either never really do anything to justify their prominence beyond "they've been here for years", or that they're an aggressively terrible character whose very presence is poisonous to the series. What I'm saying is, aim higher, take shots at Tigra/Starfox/Wonder Man, even Wasp, if we dare.

H*ll, Spider-Woman 1 is on the "Avengers we'd like to see in the movies" list, and whatever she did or didn't do back in her old solo series, everything she did as an Avenger that mattered at all, that was all Veranke. Putting the real deal on the team after Secret Invasion seems to have been a mistake, since she's just...there.

* - but seriously, why is that tool not on this list?


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689


Everyone always dismisses him out of hand and I don't get it.

My first comic ever was Avengers #300. Why did I buy that issue? Because of the dude who had a cowhead helmet.






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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,108


I think the writer was more likely referring to George Perez rather than Kurt Busiek. Both of them created Silverclaw.




"It is not our abilities that show what we truly are. It is our choices." – Albus Dumbledore
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zeus


Location: Plano, IL
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Agreed Century!

Cenutry & Druid both provide unique (non-super model) looks, and unique power sets to the team. And Druid's history with the team is ripe for character exploration!

Druid may be on the Avengers' "worst Avengers" list, but as far as characters to make for interesting stories he's near the top.


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Quantum




I do dig that you bought that Avengers issue for the guy with the Cow helmet.


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Century: Your Alien Hero




I got to dismiss Tigra, Wonder Man, Starfox and Jerk of Hearts as worthless characters, question if Spider-Woman 1 had brought anything to the table at all as an Avenger, and the only thing anyone bothered to disagree with was when I dissed Gilgamesh? Awesome.

This board really seems to have grown a small-but-vocal Gilgamesh fanbase, which is really weird and confusing for me, but yes, I will concede that his pre-Avengers appearances in Eternals and in Thor, tended to be a better-liked version of the character.

In contrast, the guy who showed up in Avengers starts off in that uglo cow-head costume, and his next costume is just a toga, and he's this one-note guy whose entire conversation seems to revolve around fighting monsters, and he's supposed to be on a power level alongside Thor, yet he gets slapped around and nearly killed by the Lava Men? It's hardly surprising that they replaced him with Sersi as a representative of the Eternals.

A lot of these lower-tier characters are guys who just never really got a fair shot at making their mark, but in Gilg's case, dude did at least get around a whole year in the book and never really gave us anything. Even the "Hercules is taking credit for stuff he did" thing never amount to anything. Still, at least you guys can be happy that people have brought him back from getting killed off twice now. You guys have got it better than us Moonraker fans.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689



    Quote:
    I got to dismiss Tigra, Wonder Man, Starfox and Jerk of Hearts as worthless characters, question if Spider-Woman 1 had brought anything to the table at all as an Avenger, and the only thing anyone bothered to disagree with was when I dissed Gilgamesh? Awesome.


I didn't comment about them because I don't care about them one way or the other. Century either for that matter.


    Quote:
    This board really seems to have grown a small-but-vocal Gilgamesh fanbase, which is really weird and confusing for me, but yes, I will concede that his pre-Avengers appearances in Eternals and in Thor, tended to be a better-liked version of the character.



    Quote:
    In contrast, the guy who showed up in Avengers starts off in that uglo cow-head costume, and his next costume is just a toga, and he's this one-note guy whose entire conversation seems to revolve around fighting monsters, and he's supposed to be on a power level alongside Thor, yet he gets slapped around and nearly killed by the Lava Men? It's hardly surprising that they replaced him with Sersi as a representative of the Eternals.



    Quote:
    A lot of these lower-tier characters are guys who just never really got a fair shot at making their mark, but in Gilg's case, dude did at least get around a whole year in the book and never really gave us anything. Even the "Hercules is taking credit for stuff he did" thing never amount to anything. Still, at least you guys can be happy that people have brought him back from getting killed off twice now. You guys have got it better than us Moonraker fans.







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TJ Burns





In fairness, I didn't agree with the Jack of Hearts comment either, but I can't argue that his stay with the Avengers was great... about the only worthwhile thing he got to do was bond a little with his former enemy Quasar. He deserved a better run.

That said, Starfox definitely grew as a character as an Avenger, going from the sort of guy that joined the team as a vacation hobby to being a much more dedicated hero, chasing after Nebula. He's not a really good Avenger, and his most memorable contributions are the sort of continuity violations I tend to scream about or happened before he became an Avenger during the Thanos War, but the character's better for having been one.

Both Wonder Man and Tigra's entire character arc was originally that they weren't good enough to be Avengers, so they're almost as bad at being low-hanging fruit as the original list... and you are dead right on with Spider-Woman. She's in exactly the same state as Starfox in that her best moments with the team were before she joined, only she gets nothing added to her from having been an Avenger.


TJB


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TJ Burns





I disagree with almost the entire list, really, but that doesn't surprise me. Two of my favorite CHARACTER Avengers, Dr. Druid and Gilgamesh, are on the list and are on almost every list, and a close contender, Stingray, is there too.... and Century's pretty high on my list of guys that deserve a shot at the membership ring.


TJB


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Michael






    Quote:
    That said, Starfox definitely grew as a character as an Avenger, going from the sort of guy that joined the team as a vacation hobby to being a much more dedicated hero, chasing after Nebula. He's not a really good Avenger, and his most memorable contributions are the sort of continuity violations I tend to scream about or happened before he became an Avenger during the Thanos War, but the character's better for having been one.


What memorable moments did Starfox have during the Thanos War? He spent most of the series being captured.
Personally, I think the problem with Starfox can be traced back to a Ron Marz backup story in a Silver Surfer Annual. It implied that Starfox used his powers to seduce women against their will, and for the first time, fans started seeing him as Super-Rapist. (Previously, during Stern's arc, he said that he only used his powers on the women he dated if they gave him permission.) Regardless, I agree that no one knew what to do with him since Stern left.

    Quote:
    Both Wonder Man and Tigra's entire character arc was originally that they weren't good enough to be Avengers, so they're almost as bad at being low-hanging fruit as the original list.

Personally, I think that Simon and Tigra could have been decent Avengers if not for mistakes Englehart made during his WCA run. Simon for the first time turned into a jerk during the Lost-In-Time arc, and the Avengers easily forgave him. Unfortunately, this started a cycle where Simon constantly finds a new way to act like a jerk, and the Avengers always forgive him, that arguably continues to this day, depending on whether or not you think Children's Crusade takes place before or after the Revengers story.
Tigra, on the other hand, went from a young woman with understandable human weaknesses to a nymphomaniac who melted before anything in pants under Englehart's pen, and her character arguably never recovered from it- at least not until Avengers Initiative.

Michael




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TJ Burns





Starfox's connection to his brother was his memorable contribution in Thanos War, plus him, Mar-Vell, and Iron Man against Thanos's golems. Beats essentially everything he did as an Avenger. Honorable mention goes to him being the guy that narrated the mass battle in Infinity Gauntlet.

I do feel like Englehart fixed Tigra, with her cat-soul problem being removed and altered before he left the book. Unfortunately, Byrne brought it back with a vengeance, trapping Tigra in that role entirely too much. Wonder Man... well, him turning out to have blamed the embezzlement entirely on his brother, knowing better, is worse than the Space-Time stuff, other than, y'know, accidentally killing Hawkeye.


TJB


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Michael





    Quote:

    Starfox's connection to his brother was his memorable contribution in Thanos War, plus him, Mar-Vell, and Iron Man against Thanos's golems. Beats essentially everything he did as an Avenger. Honorable mention goes to him being the guy that narrated the mass battle in Infinity Gauntlet.



    Quote:
    I do feel like Englehart fixed Tigra, with her cat-soul problem being removed and altered before he left the book. Unfortunately, Byrne brought it back with a vengeance, trapping Tigra in that role entirely too much. Wonder Man... well, him turning out to have blamed the embezzlement entirely on his brother, knowing better, is worse than the Space-Time stuff, other than, y'know, accidentally killing Hawkeye.



    Quote:

    TJB





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This Was Duplicate Post




MOD-ified:

Roll-Call


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Michael






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TJ Burns








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MOD 

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Click on the 2nd image for link to ROLL CALL issue link. The first image was found and saved from a daily changing comics bulletin board usually featuring fanart.


Roll-Call




I miss you, Dan. I miss you, Dad. I miss you, Dan.
I miss you, Dad & Dan. I miss you Dad and Dan. Support Cancer Research.
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naiche




In the pictures with the faces of the Avengers, come on, the Prince of orphans, Darkhawk and Nova are listed and Deathcry, Marrina and Century not?????
In the names listed under active members I missed Shang Chi, the Vision and U.S.Agent - okay found him listed as John Walker.
And Moonraker, was he still Gustav Brandt or what was his name - Slade Truman?
Above, who said Stingray was an Avenger for minutes? He served and helped the Avengers for several times!
And who is Flux???? I am reading Avengers for nearly 40 years now, when or where was he an Avenger????


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TJ Burns





Flux was given Avengers status in his mini last year. His powers were killing him, and he died at the end of it, so, honestly, he's a Moira Brandon level Avenger. At least he had powers. If Avengers Roll Call hadn't included a profile, I'd have not known who he was either. \:\)

Century was legitimately never an Avenger, thus explaining his absence... but Deathcry and Marinna should be on the list someplace. The membership list is from Roll Call, which for completely inexplicable reasons decided that Prince of Orphans and Shang-Chi weren't official Avengers, despite them being named as such by Cap and having served more Avengers missions than Nova. Which is probably the worst bit of Handbook business since the random retconning of the Basilisk's powers back in the Book of the Dead.


TJB


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