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Author
emerick man 

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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Revisiting...

Sentry #4 [Dec.2000]
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Sentry_Vol_1_4


SOURCE:
https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/7325285.html


"I PRAY TO GOD" is ludicrous dialogue coming from Reed, right?


So, were in retrospect were the super conspirators more effective mindwiping (mindblocking?) the entire Earth with their methods with The Sentry, here, or with making the world forget Peter Parker was Spider-man for BND? What other global brainwwashings have happened on our MU Earth?






Remind me, did we learn who's name spearheading Sentry's banishment that Tony was withholding?

Here are some comments about S.H.E. from this ish:
AMB archived related links

And the question of the moment that comes to mind, now, is:
As good or bad The Sentry character is, the fact/dangler is that he did return after the bad or really bad Apocalypse Twins arc:
> http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Uncanny_Avengers_Vol_1_22
> Horseman of Death, Sentry, was brought back to life by the Apocalypse Twins.
> The Sentry takes custody of the corpse of Exitar the Executioner. He tells Wasp that Exitar will one day return from the White Hot Room. He takes the corpse away from Earth, but warns that the Celestials' wrath will be great.
so, now that all (but one) of the Celestials have been obliterated since the end of The Ultimates run, do you think/want Sentry to RETURN?! If so, how so? If Sentry clashed with Gwenpool, would all realities implode or just both characters get wiped out of existence? ;\)




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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,722



    Quote:
    so, now that all (but one) of the Celestials have been obliterated since the end of The Ultimates run, do you think/want Sentry to RETURN?!


Definitely not. Also, at least an entire host of Celestials returned at the end of the Ultimates run so there is more than one now.



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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,109




    Quote:

    "I PRAY TO GOD" is ludicrous dialogue coming from Reed, right?


Is it though? When Reed was created back in the 60's I bet a lot of American scientists at the time were still Christians.

I think there's this modern trend of writing every scientist as an atheist but I'm thinking Reed predates that a little.

I mean I'm an atheist but it does sort of get annoying to see every so called smart guy written as as atheist. A lot of us atheists are just as stupid as anyone else myself definitely included. Back in the 60's I don't think it would be weird to assume Reed was a christian who just didn't go to church very often. Religion wasn't a big part of his life but maybe he didn't have a disdain for it. Maybe he wasn't a hardcore atheist and was just an agnostic who was waiting to make his mind up when he had evidence one way or the other. Or maybe he was a deist who think God created the universe and just left it alone. I'm thinking Reed wouldn't dismiss God out of hand...he'd entertain the notion he might exist until he had the evidence to rule it out.

Reverend Meteor (a lot of people think they're a Rick when they're really a Morty)





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The Black Guardian

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Heck, the Fantastic Four have met KirbyGod.

But even us atheists talk about God and say those silly idioms. "Pray" is just a euphemism for "hope." And "God" certainly doesn't necessarily mean anything remotely like any religion's gods.


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America's Captain 

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Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:


      Quote:

      "I PRAY TO GOD" is ludicrous dialogue coming from Reed, right?



    Quote:
    Is it though? When Reed was created back in the 60's I bet a lot of American scientists at the time were still Christians.


Even as recently as 2009, about 30% of American scientists were Christian. And another 18% were either Jewish or some other religion.
Scientists and Belief

Only 17% were atheist and 11% agnostic.

Reed would know the difference between faith and knowledge. Regarding God there is no such thing as knowledge. Faith is a different question entirely.


    Quote:
    I think there's this modern trend of writing every scientist as an atheist but I'm thinking Reed predates that a little.



    Quote:
    I mean I'm an atheist but it does sort of get annoying to see every so called smart guy written as as atheist. A lot of us atheists are just as stupid as anyone else myself definitely included. Back in the 60's I don't think it would be weird to assume Reed was a christian who just didn't go to church very often. Religion wasn't a big part of his life but maybe he didn't have a disdain for it. Maybe he wasn't a hardcore atheist and was just an agnostic who was waiting to make his mind up when he had evidence one way or the other. Or maybe he was a deist who think God created the universe and just left it alone. I'm thinking Reed wouldn't dismiss God out of hand...he'd entertain the notion he might exist until he had the evidence to rule it out.


I don't know how anyone in the Marvel Universe who is in the loop regarding superheroics could defensibly remain atheist. Think of all the transcendent realities that have been encountered by superhumans in the Marvel Universe.






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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,109






    Quote:
    I don't know how anyone in the Marvel Universe who is in the loop regarding superheroics could defensibly remain atheist. Think of all the transcendent realities that have been encountered by superhumans in the Marvel Universe.


I probably would still be an atheist if I lived there \:\)

1. The beings with power in the universe are uncaring (Galactus, Eternity, Celestials, Watchers)

2. I don't see how (a caring) God works if the multiverse is real. If every possible collection of possibilities is reflected in it's own universe then our choices can't matter to God. (unless God is universe specific I guess. Maybe every Universe God reports to Multiverse God. But that's just crazy talk)


I mean ok maybe I couldn't be a straight up atheist and would have to like acknowledge The One Above All is real...but I definitely wouldn't give that thing my devotion.





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America's Captain 

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    Quote:
    I probably would still be an atheist if I lived there \:\)



    Quote:
    1. The beings with power in the universe are uncaring (Galactus, Eternity, Celestials, Watchers)



    Quote:
    2. I don't see how (a caring) God works if the multiverse is real. If every possible collection of possibilities is reflected in it's own universe then our choices can't matter to God. (unless God is universe specific I guess. Maybe every Universe God reports to Multiverse God. But that's just crazy talk)



    Quote:

    I mean ok maybe I couldn't be a straight up atheist and would have to like acknowledge The One Above All is real...but I definitely wouldn't give that thing my devotion.


That's why we need a new word. It would denote people who are agnostic as to God's existence but think it's nevertheless obvious that God doesn't care about human welfare and therefore they hold no reverence toward any God who might exist. I think a position like that would be tenable in the Marvel Universe.

Even so, if I lived in the Marvel Universe, I would think it obvious that God was protecting the Earth. Maybe not protecting you or me but definitely the Earth. There is no way in the Marvel Universe that the Earth should be anything but (a) a cinder or (b) swept clean of humans and ruled instead by some other species. I mean, sure, we have Reed Richards and Doctor Strange, but seriously, how many evil empires and hungry space gods can these two guys realistically hold at bay?






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The Black Guardian

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It is because of the infinite choices that our choices do matter.


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,109




    Quote:
    It is because of the infinite choices that our choices do matter.


Sure in the sense that we give our lives their own meaning and it's not an intrinsic thing. But not in the sense that our relationship with "God" would have meaning if every possible possibility is made manifest somewhere in the multiverse. Some versions of me are just destined to make bad decisions that go against God's word because a choice was available and going through with any of those choices is played out on some other world. I think most atheists on some level see that life is what you make it but if you're not an atheist I can see how the idea of a multiverse could wreck your faith.

And God can't have a master plan if there is a multiverse. Unless every possible possibility being played out is the plan...and then our actions in terms of God really are pointless. If we weren't one of the good ones several of our alternate world doppelgangers somehow were good. Kinda invalidates all the judgmental parts of the bible. Somewhere there is one of you who is doing some good.

Reverend Meteor (I guess Multiverse God could do like an average. Determine whether the iterations of you are more likely to be good or evil and then just dump all the you's in hell if your average is less than 50%)






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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,109






    Quote:
    That's why we need a new word. It would denote people who are agnostic as to God's existence but think it's nevertheless obvious that God doesn't care about human welfare and therefore they hold no reverence toward any God who might exist. I think a position like that would be tenable in the Marvel Universe.


An apatheist maybe? Close but not quite I guess. I guess the dictionary people never gotten around to make a word for acknowledging the possibility of God but ignoring him all the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism


    Quote:
    Even so, if I lived in the Marvel Universe, I would think it obvious that God was protecting the Earth. Maybe not protecting you or me but definitely the Earth. There is no way in the Marvel Universe that the Earth should be anything but (a) a cinder or (b) swept clean of humans and ruled instead by some other species. I mean, sure, we have Reed Richards and Doctor Strange, but seriously, how many evil empires and hungry space gods can these two guys realistically hold at bay?


Yeah but you go to all those other timelines and earth gets blown up or enslaved by lizard people or everyone gets absorbed into a nannite cloud or something. Why do those timelines have a lazy God? Maybe there are some timelines where God just doesn't care...and you never quite know if you're stuck in that God doesn't care timeline. Maybe I live in that timeline where God lets the earth blow up.





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America's Captain 

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    Quote:
    An apatheist maybe? Close but not quite I guess. I guess the dictionary people never gotten around to make a word for acknowledging the possibility of God but ignoring him all the same.



    Quote:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism


Yeah, that's the closest word I could think of. It almost covers it. It just doesn't capture the feeling of defiance that I think is part of what we were talking about.


    Quote:
    Yeah but you go to all those other timelines and earth gets blown up or enslaved by lizard people or everyone gets absorbed into a nannite cloud or something. Why do those timelines have a lazy God? Maybe there are some timelines where God just doesn't care...and you never quite know if you're stuck in that God doesn't care timeline. Maybe I live in that timeline where God lets the earth blow up.


That is really very interesting! I never would have thought of that.







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The Black Guardian

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 24,707



    Quote:
    That's why we need a new word. It would denote people who are agnostic as to God's existence but think it's nevertheless obvious that God doesn't care about human welfare and therefore they hold no reverence toward any God who might exist. I think a position like that would be tenable in the Marvel Universe.

Sounds a lot like Deism?


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America's Captain 

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Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,531



    Quote:

      Quote:
      That's why we need a new word. It would denote people who are agnostic as to God's existence but think it's nevertheless obvious that God doesn't care about human welfare and therefore they hold no reverence toward any God who might exist. I think a position like that would be tenable in the Marvel Universe.

    Sounds a lot like Deism?


No, most Deists are reverent. They figure we didn't have to exist at all, so since we do, we have a reason to thank and praise the Creator. They also have a sense of wonder and appreciation with regard to wildlife and its awesome diversity. It's a half full/half empty thing. Do we vilify God because kids are starving in Africa (which, by the way, is mostly the fault of humans) or do we revere God because Africa abounds with giraffes, elephants, lions, and so many other amazing creatures?









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