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America's Captain 

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I absolutely don't. I would rather have a weekly Avenger book.

First of all, I don't like the Unity concept. Never did. The Avengers have pretty much always had gods, monsters, mutants, Inhumans (Crystal), Eternals (Sersi), androids, aliens (Starfox), and any other category that could be named. The Avengers (no adjective) have pretty much always been the unity team. The country's, the planet's, the solar system's unity team. It's part of the very essence of what it means to be an Avenger. Yes, I know, Avengers versus X-Men happened. Like forever ago. Who even cares about that story any more? The Unity concept only makes sense in the context of that story. That's a poor rationale for an ongoing series if it's really intended to be ongoing. I mean, yeah, I know, Rogue - but Rogue could be in the weekly Avengers book. She doesn't need the Unity concept.

As for USAvengers, I really like the AIM angle, mainly because I'm in love with Iron Patriot, but also I love the idea that AIM could switch sides from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Good so easily because all they care about is funding for their super-science - the perfect example of Neutral Neutral - so if the book stays true to that core concept, I will probably buy it in the future. I didn't know it had that core concept. I would rather it go back to its old name, "Avengers Idea Mechanics," but with its current roster possibly minus Squirrel Girl, although actually, the more I think about it, the more I think Squirrel Girl could work in this context. She is, after all, a serious computer scientist of real ability. But if she quits, no biggie, really, especially since she'll definitely pop up elsewhere, as any team would be glad to have her, in case Galactus shows up.

As for the adjectiveless Avengers book - well yeah, that has to continue.

All in all, I prefer a weekly Avengers book. I probably won't buy the Unity book if it starts up again, because I don't care about the unity concept. I probably will buy what I hope will be called "Avengers Idea Mechanics."






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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,317



    Quote:
    I absolutely don't. I would rather have a weekly Avenger book.



    Quote:
    First of all, I don't like the Unity concept. Never did. The Avengers have pretty much always had gods, monsters, mutants, Inhumans (Crystal), Eternals (Sersi), androids, aliens (Starfox), and any other category that could be named. The Avengers (no adjective) have pretty much always been the unity team. The country's, the planet's, the solar system's unity team. It's part of the very essence of what it means to be an Avenger. Yes, I know, Avengers versus X-Men happened. Like forever ago. Who even cares about that story any more? The Unity concept only makes sense in the context of that story. That's a poor rationale for an ongoing series if it's really intended to be ongoing. I mean, yeah, I know, Rogue - but Rogue could be in the weekly Avengers book. She doesn't need the Unity concept.



    Quote:
    As for USAvengers, I really like the AIM angle, mainly because I'm in love with Iron Patriot, but also I love the idea that AIM could switch sides from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Good so easily because all they care about is funding for their super-science - the perfect example of Neutral Neutral - so if the book stays true to that core concept, I will probably buy it in the future. I didn't know it had that core concept. I would rather it go back to its old name, "Avengers Idea Mechanics," but with its current roster possibly minus Squirrel Girl, although actually, the more I think about it, the more I think Squirrel Girl could work in this context. She is, after all, a serious computer scientist of real ability. But if she quits, no biggie, really, especially since she'll definitely pop up elsewhere, as any team would be glad to have her, in case Galactus shows up.



    Quote:
    As for the adjectiveless Avengers book - well yeah, that has to continue.



    Quote:
    All in all, I prefer a weekly Avengers book. I probably won't buy the Unity book if it starts up again, because I don't care about the unity concept. I probably will buy what I hope will be called "Avengers Idea Mechanics."


Your idea does not appeal to me. For starters it would triple my monthly expenditure for Avengers team books (or, to be nitpicky, it would see that the increased expense caused by the current Avengers event would continue) because before Avengers: No Surrender I only had Uncanny Avengers on my pull list. A similar thing applies to your suggestion to amalgamate the various X-Men team books into one monthly title. From where I'm standing, both projects have the main effect of forcing me to spend more money on comics for the privilege of reading stories about characters that don't interest or appeal to me sufficiently for me to read the books in which they appear voluntarily.

Secondly, I think the change would cause unnecessary frictions and headaches on the creative side. As things were, the writers of the various Avengers (and X-Men) team books had a certain degree of creative freedom because their particular team only intermittently interacted with the others (usually in the context of a major crossover event). With the new system there's a much greater potential for conflict among the writers involved over the use and fate of certain characters etc. Also, under the old system a writer would usually deal with a manageable cast (usually about a handful, generally less than ten), and many if not most of the characters involved would be characters they wanted to write. With the new system you would not only have a larger and much more unwieldy cast, but also an increased likelihood that the writer would not actually care for several of the characters assigned to him or her. And with the conflicts among the writers involved one might eventually come to a situation where editorial decides that they'd prefer one writer to take over entirely, and a situation like the one we've seen with Dan Slott on Amazing Spider-Man is not something I would wish on the Avengers or the X-Men.

Personally, I prefer a situation where the different teams have distinct identities. Heck, I preferred it when the different Spider-Man titles had distinct characteristics. Making them all part of one big thing could easily lead to a deadening sense of "sameness", eroding the things that otherwise readers might find attractive.

As for the Unity Squad...
I think you're doing yourself a disservice by refusing to read the book because of the concept for which they were set up. They have long evolved beyond that and at the moment, where they are a team that exists because the members want to stay together without reference to the Avengers Charter etc., they are IMO actually closer in spirit to the Defenders (the "non-team" team).

Which is not to say that the Unity concept was a bad thing (the problem with early Uncanny Avengers was not the Unity concept but Rick Remender). Yes, the Avengers have had e.g. mutant members since the 1960s, but at the beginning that was not "sold" as a political statement and the mutant Avengers hardly ever got to talk about anti-mutant prejudice, discrimination or other aspects of "mutant politics". As a team, the Avengers were not really interested and took no public position. And in the beginning they were clearly a team sanctioned by the US government (Avengers ID cards are signed by the US President (1)), so despite allowing non-Americans to join, they were not really a "unity team" for Earth as a whole. So the Unity Squad was useful both with respect to making a statement to the general public and also in order to get people who came from different "camps" to collaborate.(2)

(1) At least they were until recently. They're probably too small for the present incumbent's signature.
(2) In earlier days the mutant, foreign etc. members of the Avengers tended to be people who rarely defined themselves by their identity. Wanda and Pietro had left the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants behind them and were happy to become part of a new surrogate family (anti-mutant prejudice did not really become an issue outside the X-Men until the 1980s). The Black Widow after stopping to be a Soviet spy effectively became a naturalized American with only negligible ties to her old country. Captain Mar-Vell defected from the Kree armed forces and cut his ties to his old home to live on Earth and Titan. The Black Panther did not have much to say about racial politics in the pages of The Avengers (that was relegated to his solo stories). The Falcon was presented as feeling uncomfortable about becoming an Avenger becasue of a quota mandated by the US government...




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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,846



    Quote:
    I absolutely don't. I would rather have a weekly Avenger book.

Bottom line is that I want the Unity team and the former AIM/US team plus the normal team, and I want them totally separate, doing different things. They need different mission statements and outlooks on the world that sometimes butt heads. It's boring to have them all under one umbrella or roof. These teams don't exist for the same purposes. Forcing one into another is forcing them to be things they are not.

There's more bang for the buck in being separate. With a single weekly Avengers book, we get 1 story. With 3 Avengers books we get 3.


    Quote:
    First of all, I don't like the Unity concept. Never did. The Avengers have pretty much always had gods, monsters, mutants, Inhumans (Crystal), Eternals (Sersi), androids, aliens (Starfox), and any other category that could be named. The Avengers (no adjective) have pretty much always been the unity team. The country's, the planet's, the solar system's unity team. It's part of the very essence of what it means to be an Avenger. Yes, I know, Avengers versus X-Men happened. Like forever ago. Who even cares about that story any more? The Unity concept only makes sense in the context of that story. That's a poor rationale for an ongoing series if it's really intended to be ongoing. I mean, yeah, I know, Rogue - but Rogue could be in the weekly Avengers book. She doesn't need the Unity concept.

The Avengers have always ignored the mutant situation, and the mutants they've tended to have were the worst "mutants" of the bunch (and I'm so glad the main two aren't mutants anymore). There absolutely needed to be Unity Squad. It's execution started horribly, but it's finally where it should be. I don't really care about Inhumans, but whatever. I like Synapse.


    Quote:
    As for USAvengers, I really like the AIM angle, mainly because I'm in love with Iron Patriot, but also I love the idea that AIM could switch sides from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Good so easily because all they care about is funding for their super-science - the perfect example of Neutral Neutral - so if the book stays true to that core concept, I will probably buy it in the future. I didn't know it had that core concept. I would rather it go back to its old name, "Avengers Idea Mechanics," but with its current roster possibly minus Squirrel Girl, although actually, the more I think about it, the more I think Squirrel Girl could work in this context. She is, after all, a serious computer scientist of real ability. But if she quits, no biggie, really, especially since she'll definitely pop up elsewhere, as any team would be glad to have her, in case Galactus shows up.

Don't really care for the AIM thing. You can't just assume control of a group like AIM and be a force for good. AIM is the equivalent of Al Qaeda or ISIL. I find the premise highly insulting and disgusting.

That said, I do like most of the team and want to continue reading them (by themselves, so they can be themselves). I still want Squirrel Girl dead six ways to Sunday, and I have no fondness for Red Hulk. The others, I'm cool with.


    Quote:
    As for the adjectiveless Avengers book - well yeah, that has to continue.

Lately, they've been my least favourite, but I still want them around. They need to be around.

Titles that appear on covers are generally, mostly marketing gimmicks. In a perfect world, we'd have better, more unique, titles for the books with these teams.




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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689



I just want two Avengers books. I can live with 2. There is no need for more than 2.






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Dingers


Member Since: Thu Dec 21, 2017
Posts: 32


The one thing that needs to happen is made clear the status of an Avenger. I think the picture of the torn Avenger Charter (which was thrown out in the volume 1 era) is symbolic that the way things were for the Avengers are over. Things will be new and different.

Avengers World : This should have happened after the Avengers went into space and Thanos came to Earth. A team of Avengers that are formed to prevent the extraterrestrial threat. Agent Brand and few heroes from different parts of the world and from other teams joining the team.

Avengers Assemble: Book that assembles team ups, small and medium groups of current, past members and include on occasion perspective members who have never or seldom worked together. Current and former leaders of the Avengers leading the team.

New Avengers: The Young Avengers (though I think they joined in Avengers #1/568 vol. IV) headline the book with 2-3 veterans helping to train and check in on the team. They train and operate at the Avengers Academy.

Avengers: Supernatural Doctor Strange is asked to form a group of mystics to battle the mystic threats that threaten our reality.

Avengers : Main team of the book that is Occupy, Uncanny and the main team.

Avengers: Initiative The USAvengers, some from Secret Avengers (Steve's and S.H.I.E.L.D.S) operate from the helicarrier.


Dingers




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CyberCoyote-=^..^-=

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Location: The Negative Zone
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,382



    Quote:

    Bottom line is that I want the Unity team and the former AIM/US team plus the normal team, and I want them totally separate, doing different things. They need different mission statements and outlooks on the world that sometimes butt heads. It's boring to have them all under one umbrella or roof. These teams don't exist for the same purposes. Forcing one into another is forcing them to be things they are not.


And why have 3 teams all hell bent on the same goals? Then you just have one big team.


    Quote:
    There's more bang for the buck in being separate. With a single weekly Avengers book, we get 1 story. With 3 Avengers books we get 3.


Agreed. And even if one story line is pretty meh, you have two other chances of a compelling one to follow monthly in the others.


    Quote:
    Don't really care for the AIM thing. You can't just assume control of a group like AIM and be a force for good. AIM is the equivalent of Al Qaeda or ISIL. I find the premise highly insulting and disgusting.


EXACTLY! I tried to follow it when it first came out but the concept was so silly I couldn't bear it.. plus Squirell Girl. Joke character turned mainstream Avenger. Let her go on the Great Lakes team and share their fate in publication. I'd rather just have Sunspot back and let AIM become what AIM is. Maybe have a story that takes care of both.


    Quote:
    That said, I do like most of the team and want to continue reading them (by themselves, so they can be themselves). I still want Squirrel Girl dead six ways to Sunday, and I have no fondness for Red Hulk. The others, I'm cool with.


Oh yeah, Rulk (and all the other latter day Hulks) can go away.


    Quote:
    Titles that appear on covers are generally, mostly marketing gimmicks. In a perfect world, we'd have better, more unique, titles for the books with these teams.


The Uncanny/Incredible/Invincible stuff lost every ounce of power when they started mixing them up. Unless you just use them on their original books they should be forgotten. What's the use of Spider-Man being Amazing if Squirrel Girl, Son of Terrax and Ford Motor Bowling League are too?






Pull List: Fantastic Four-Immortal Hulk-Capt America-Dr Strange- X-Men
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The Black Guardian

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Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 25,846



    Quote:

      Quote:

      Bottom line is that I want the Unity team and the former AIM/US team plus the normal team, and I want them totally separate, doing different things. They need different mission statements and outlooks on the world that sometimes butt heads. It's boring to have them all under one umbrella or roof. These teams don't exist for the same purposes. Forcing one into another is forcing them to be things they are not.



    Quote:
    And why have 3 teams all hell bent on the same goals? Then you just have one big team.

That's the thing: they're not bend on the same goals.




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America's Captain 

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Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    And why have 3 teams all hell bent on the same goals? Then you just have one big team.


(begin rant)

Because if they aren't all ultimately the same team then they aren't all ultimately the same team. If Team A, Team B, and Team C are not the same team then if Team A is the Avengers, then Team B and Team C are not.

I mean, I apologize for applying logic to Marvel's inane marketing ploys, but throwing a random bunch of characters together and then slapping an arbitrary "Avengers" label on the cover has accomplished one thing: it has made the label meaningless.

Man-Thing, Howard the Duck, Super-Bev (a mysteriously super-powered and spandex-clad Beverly Switzler - admit it, you want to see that), the Lizard, and the Glob gather together to protect the Florida Everglades from evil. They are - Avengers Muck. Why? Because they say so.

(end rant)


    Quote:
    The Uncanny/Incredible/Invincible stuff lost every ounce of power when they started mixing them up. Unless you just use them on their original books they should be forgotten. What's the use of Spider-Man being Amazing if Squirrel Girl, Son of Terrax and Ford Motor Bowling League are too?


(laughs uproariously)

That was really funny!

The Amazing Ford Motor Bowling League...

Nevertheless, I feel compelled to point out that Squirrel Girl is not Amazing. She's Unbeatable.







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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,317



    Quote:

      Quote:
      And why have 3 teams all hell bent on the same goals? Then you just have one big team.



    Quote:
    (begin rant)



    Quote:
    Because if they aren't all ultimately the same team then they aren't all ultimately the same team. If Team A, Team B, and Team C are not the same team then if Team A is the Avengers, then Team B and Team C are not.



    Quote:
    I mean, I apologize for applying logic to Marvel's inane marketing ploys, but throwing a random bunch of characters together and then slapping an arbitrary "Avengers" label on the cover has accomplished one thing: it has made the label meaningless.



    Quote:
    Man-Thing, Howard the Duck, Super-Bev (a mysteriously super-powered and spandex-clad Beverly Switzler - admit it, you want to see that), the Lizard, and the Glob gather together to protect the Florida Everglades from evil. They are - Avengers Muck. Why? Because they say so.



    Quote:
    (end rant)


Well, that depends a lot on what you mean by "ultimately the same team". The first "Team B", the West Coast Avengers, was officially set up by the Avengers, but soon became autonomous in various respects (IIRC most of its members were recruited by its own leader, Hawkeye, not the leadership of the East Coast team ("Team A"). These days you have the Unity Squad which started out as an official Avengers team, then was dissolved by Hydra!Cap but since then did not reestablish its official ties to the Avengers, even though many of its members are Avengers of long standing (including one of the founders, the Wasp, who stuck with the team throughout) who were never officially expelled from the Avengers (Hydra!Cap only threw out the mutant members of the Unity Squad).

That is of course one of the problems with the Avengers: There are so many of them that you can set up a lot of teams which can call themselves Avengers with a lot more justification than your hypothetical Florida-based team. Take the rebellious Occupy Avengers, for instance, another team started by Hawkeye.

As an aside: I'm a bit surprised you didn't bring up the real example of a random team calling themselves Avengers - the Great Lake Avengers (who, due to the vagaries of the law in the Marvel Universe, for a time were the holders of the trademark of the name "Avengers").




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America's Captain 

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Location: Bayville New Jersey
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,139



    Quote:
    Well, that depends a lot on what you mean by "ultimately the same team". The first "Team B", the West Coast Avengers, was officially set up by the Avengers, but soon became autonomous in various respects (IIRC most of its members were recruited by its own leader, Hawkeye, not the leadership of the East Coast team ("Team A").


As you say, it was officially set up by the HQ Avengers. And Hawkeye having autonomy is hugely different from Rogue or Sunspot having autonomy. Hawkeye has been an Avenger since the 60s. He was one of the first three recruits after the founders left.


    Quote:
    These days you have the Unity Squad which started out as an official Avengers team, then was dissolved by Hydra!Cap but since then did not reestablish its official ties to the Avengers, even though many of its members are Avengers of long standing (including one of the founders, the Wasp, who stuck with the team throughout) who were never officially expelled from the Avengers (Hydra!Cap only threw out the mutant members of the Unity Squad).


I don't even know what to say here. The Secret Empire story line was so problematic that as soon as I start to frame a reply my brain short-circuits.


    Quote:
    That is of course one of the problems with the Avengers: There are so many of them that you can set up a lot of teams which can call themselves Avengers with a lot more justification than your hypothetical Florida-based team. Take the rebellious Occupy Avengers, for instance, another team started by Hawkeye.


Hawkeye is a special case, as noted above. He's almost (not quite, but almost) a founding member. I guess I would also go along with Wanda or (now I'm really stretching things) Pietro starting an Avengers team. In fact, add the Black Panther and the Vision (the real Vision) to the list. Anybody who was an Avenger when either Stan Lee or Roy Thomas was writing the book has sufficient standing to start an Avengers team, in my opinion. Again, Pietro doing this would be a real stretch, but logically I'd have to go along with it.


    Quote:
    As an aside: I'm a bit surprised you didn't bring up the real example of a random team calling themselves Avengers - the Great Lake Avengers (who, due to the vagaries of the law in the Marvel Universe, for a time were the holders of the trademark of the name "Avengers").


The Great Lakes Avengers were always comic relief. They were never meant to be taken seriously. In fact they make my point for me. Does anybody think the Great Lakes Avengers really had the right to call themselves Avengers? They were never supposed to be legitimate. They were supposed to make us roll our eyes and shake our heads.

But I don't want to lose sight of my original objection. Though Hawkeye, the Black Panther or the Vision could legitimately (in my opinion) start an Avengers team, this only holds true under certain circumstances, for example if the HQ Avengers were being led by, say, a Nazi wearing Captain America's uniform. The Vision couldn't legitimately (in my opinion) just decide one day to start a new team on a whim. The HQ team would need to be compromised in some way. If such isn't the case, then the HQ team must sanction the new team, no matter who starts it. Even the Wasp, founding member, before she starts a new Avengers team, must either be sanctioned by the HQ team or else must have an unimpeachable reason for going rogue, like, say, the HQ team has been disbanded by the federal government because of some legal infraction, or the HQ team has been replaced by Skrulls, or the HQ team has decided to start killing villains, or the HQ team has decided to start toppling foreign governments... things like that.







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hawkeye2099


Member Since: Tue Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 881


[


    Quote:
    Well, that depends a lot on what you mean by "ultimately the same team". The first "Team B", the West Coast Avengers, was officially set up by the Avengers, but soon became autonomous in various respects (IIRC most of its members were recruited by its own leader, Hawkeye, not the leadership of the East Coast team ("Team A").


The West Coast Team was set up by the Avengers, under Vision's chairmanship. Of course, wasn't he already on the road to trying to take over the world when he set up the team?

Hawkeye did choose all the original members of the WCA: Tigra, Wonder Man, Mockingbird and Iron Man (Rhodey, but Hawkeye didn't know that at the time).

It should be noted that other than Mockingbird the others were former/reserve Avengers (well, I suppose Rhodey wasn't but Hawkeye didn't know that). Hawkeye also did his best to follow the Avengers charter, even if he misunderstood it at times (He didn't offer membership to Firebird because he wanted the Thing on the team and thought that the charter had a membership size limit).

I actually find the end of the West Coast team to be more interesting in terms of this thread: The East Coast team decided that the WCA should be disbanded and reabsorbed into the main team. Every active Avenger had a vote and the team was disbanded.

The WCA decided to go their own way (forming Force Works) instead of holding on to any claim to the Avenger's team name (even though Tony Stark was a West Coast Avenger at the time).

Nowadays it seems like the WCA team would have said "Screw you! We're still Avengers... try and stop us!"





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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,317



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Well, that depends a lot on what you mean by "ultimately the same team". The first "Team B", the West Coast Avengers, was officially set up by the Avengers, but soon became autonomous in various respects (IIRC most of its members were recruited by its own leader, Hawkeye, not the leadership of the East Coast team ("Team A").



    Quote:
    As you say, it was officially set up by the HQ Avengers. And Hawkeye having autonomy is hugely different from Rogue or Sunspot having autonomy. Hawkeye has been an Avenger since the 60s. He was one of the first three recruits after the founders left.


Nitpicker that I am I don't count Captain America as a founder and so see Hawkeye as the fourth recruit.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      These days you have the Unity Squad which started out as an official Avengers team, then was dissolved by Hydra!Cap but since then did not reestablish its official ties to the Avengers, even though many of its members are Avengers of long standing (including one of the founders, the Wasp, who stuck with the team throughout) who were never officially expelled from the Avengers (Hydra!Cap only threw out the mutant members of the Unity Squad).



    Quote:
    I don't even know what to say here. The Secret Empire story line was so problematic that as soon as I start to frame a reply my brain short-circuits.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      That is of course one of the problems with the Avengers: There are so many of them that you can set up a lot of teams which can call themselves Avengers with a lot more justification than your hypothetical Florida-based team. Take the rebellious Occupy Avengers, for instance, another team started by Hawkeye.



    Quote:
    Hawkeye is a special case, as noted above. He's almost (not quite, but almost) a founding member. I guess I would also go along with Wanda or (now I'm really stretching things) Pietro starting an Avengers team. In fact, add the Black Panther and the Vision (the real Vision) to the list. Anybody who was an Avenger when either Stan Lee or Roy Thomas was writing the book has sufficient standing to start an Avengers team, in my opinion. Again, Pietro doing this would be a real stretch, but logically I'd have to go along with it.



    Quote:

      Quote:
      As an aside: I'm a bit surprised you didn't bring up the real example of a random team calling themselves Avengers - the Great Lake Avengers (who, due to the vagaries of the law in the Marvel Universe, for a time were the holders of the trademark of the name "Avengers").



    Quote:
    The Great Lakes Avengers were always comic relief. They were never meant to be taken seriously. In fact they make my point for me. Does anybody think the Great Lakes Avengers really had the right to call themselves Avengers? They were never supposed to be legitimate. They were supposed to make us roll our eyes and shake our heads.


Well, the joke in the last iteration of the GLA's title was that the US government recognized their right to call themselves Avengers following recent upheavals affecting the main team. (IIRC it had something to do with the fact that up until then the Maria Stark Foundation held the rights to the name Avengers).


    Quote:
    But I don't want to lose sight of my original objection. Though Hawkeye, the Black Panther or the Vision could legitimately (in my opinion) start an Avengers team, this only holds true under certain circumstances, for example if the HQ Avengers were being led by, say, a Nazi wearing Captain America's uniform. The Vision couldn't legitimately (in my opinion) just decide one day to start a new team on a whim. The HQ team would need to be compromised in some way. If such isn't the case, then the HQ team must sanction the new team, no matter who starts it. Even the Wasp, founding member, before she starts a new Avengers team, must either be sanctioned by the HQ team or else must have an unimpeachable reason for going rogue, like, say, the HQ team has been disbanded by the federal government because of some legal infraction, or the HQ team has been replaced by Skrulls, or the HQ team has decided to start killing villains, or the HQ team has decided to start toppling foreign governments... things like that.


Well, the thing with the Unity Squad is that it was set up by Captain America but then refused to disband when Cap (now secretly Hydra!Captain) ordered them to do so and expelled Rogue, Cable and Deadpool. Afterwards Captain America (now back to his old self) asked Rogue to return to the team, but she refused but adding "Ah'll promise you we'll answer the call when the time comes, but we need to do it our own way, the way that works for us." And Cap accepts that. (UA vol. 3 #30). I think one important unstated reason for Rogue and the Unity Squad to detach themselves organisationally from the other teams is that they don't want to be regulated by the government.

Rogue emerged as the team's leader almost against her wishes (she started out as the team's field leader or quarterback under Cap's authority, then everyone looked at her for leadership). But her team does contain the Wasp (founder, also Rogue's biggest backer), Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch (second and third recruit) as well as longtime members Beast and Wonder Man. And with the exception of Rogue (who would regain her membership the moment she'd ask for it) every single member of the Unity Squad is an official Avenger. If you look at the organisational table in Avengers #676 and 677, the Unity Squad currently is the biggest Avengers team, containing eight members, while the "HQ team" contains only four or five (the Vision joining in between the two issues), of whom Hercules is the senior member (joined #45), and whose leader is the Falcon (joined in #184 (1979)). And in #678, when the Avengers reorganize into three ad-hoc forces, there is no question over Rogue getting to choose and lead one of the two "away" task forces.

The question is how do the Avengers generally get to make decisions. Do only currently active members have a say or also the reserve Avengers? It seems evident that leaders (who however aren't always elected) have a bigger say. In the case of the Unity Squad it was apparently set up because Cap decided to do so, but then it rebelled against Cap's order to disband (incidentally, the Beast, Wonder Man and the Scarlet Witch all only joined the squad after Cap gave that order). They clearly continue to consider themselves Avengers in the ways that matter (other than organisationally), which is made evident by the fact that they, and not the HQ team, rebuilt Avengers Mansion.

Another thing: As things were at the end of Uncanny Avengers vol. 3, the Unity Squad apparently operated as a nameless team, they did not officially call themselves the Unity Squad or Avengers, even though Marvel decided not to rename the book something other than "Uncanny Avengers".




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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689




    Quote:
    Nitpicker that I am I don't count Captain America as a founder and so see Hawkeye as the fourth recruit.


I think a true nitpicker would count Hawkeye as the second recruit. Cap's the first but Iron Man introduced Hawkeye to the press as his replacement in Avengers #16 before the twins were made members. \:\)





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Menshevik


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,317




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 58.0 on Windows 10

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