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America's Captain 

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And why? What's your threshold? Does Cap have to ratify it? If not Cap, then does Iron Man, Thor, or the Wasp have to ratify it? Can Hawkeye ratify? Black Widow? Black Panther? Scarlet Witch? Must a quorum of Avengers vote? What constitutes a quorum?

The above are in-story reasons. Do you have any meta reasons? For example, if a character was only an Avenger during a certain era (or under a certain writer or pair of writers) and then was promptly dropped, do the in-story reasons get trumped by meta ones?

Characters:

Spider-Man - Bendis put him on the page a lot, as did Hickman. The No Surrender writers didn't use him. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he doesn't seem to consider himself an Avenger as far as I can tell, bearing in mind I don't buy his books.

Wolverine - Bendis put him on the page a lot. Did Hickman? The No Surrender writers didn't use him, because he was dead. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him, I guess because he was dead. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he was dead and I think he's getting a fresh start, clumsy as that that fresh start may be. Also, and to be frank, I never really believed in him as in Avenger. Bendis never convinced me.

Luke Cage - Bendis put him on the page a lot. Did Hickman? The No Surrender writers didn't use him. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he doesn't seem to consider himself an Avenger as far as I can tell, bearing in mind I don't buy his books.

Starfox - I don't know how he got on the team. Bendis didn't use him. Did Hickman? Being an Avenger just seemed like a very temporary gig for this immortal character. I can't imagine that he thinks of himself proudly as an Avenger.

She-Hulk - I don't know how she got on the team. I don't think Bendis or Hickman used her. Did they? And yet, if the call went out for Avengers to Assemble, I feel confident She-Hulk would answer the call, and all would acknowledge her right to do so. I know Aaron Belphegore is using her, but let's face it, he's obviously doing it because he can't have the Hulk and there needs to be a Hulkish character because the movies trump all. Also he's completely violating her essential concept. Funny how the SJW is so ready to commit metatextual rape.

Any others you want to discuss in this vein?

It seems I don't buy into the sacred notion of, "Once an Avenger, always an Avenger." To me, at a meta level, some writers have their pet favorites, and when those writers leave the book, their pet favorites leave the mythos. When some later writer tries to make a big deal of the fact that, say, Starfox was an Avenger, it rings false and cheesy to me.







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The Black Guardian

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    Quote:
    And why? What's your threshold? Does Cap have to ratify it? If not Cap, then does Iron Man, Thor, or the Wasp have to ratify it? Can Hawkeye ratify? Black Widow? Black Panther? Scarlet Witch? Must a quorum of Avengers vote? What constitutes a quorum?

The threshold is joining. I don't care who does it. Or even if it's "ratified."


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    Characters:



    Quote:
    Spider-Man - Bendis put him on the page a lot, as did Hickman. The No Surrender writers didn't use him. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he doesn't seem to consider himself an Avenger as far as I can tell, bearing in mind I don't buy his books.

I love that Bendis finally made him an Avenger. It was about freaking time!


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    Wolverine - Bendis put him on the page a lot. Did Hickman? The No Surrender writers didn't use him, because he was dead. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him, I guess because he was dead. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he was dead and I think he's getting a fresh start, clumsy as that that fresh start may be. Also, and to be frank, I never really believed in him as in Avenger. Bendis never convinced me.

Eh. Well, he's an Avenger now, because Bendis. I accept that completely. There are probably a dozen or so X-Men I'd prefer as Avengers before him, but whatever.


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    Luke Cage - Bendis put him on the page a lot. Did Hickman? The No Surrender writers didn't use him. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he doesn't seem to consider himself an Avenger as far as I can tell, bearing in mind I don't buy his books.

His becoming an Avenger is, imo, the best thing to ever happen to the character. And it's the best thing to happen to the Avengers in 25 years.


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    Starfox - I don't know how he got on the team. Bendis didn't use him. Did Hickman? Being an Avenger just seemed like a very temporary gig for this immortal character. I can't imagine that he thinks of himself proudly as an Avenger.

These days it feels like a temporary gig, but he was an Avenger for about 3 years or so of realtime. But yes, that was 25+ years ago. He's status is unquestionable, but he's a reservist at best.


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    She-Hulk - I don't know how she got on the team. I don't think Bendis or Hickman used her. Did they? And yet, if the call went out for Avengers to Assemble, I feel confident She-Hulk would answer the call, and all would acknowledge her right to do so. I know Aaron Belphegore is using her, but let's face it, he's obviously doing it because he can't have the Hulk and there needs to be a Hulkish character because the movies trump all. Also he's completely violating her essential concept. Funny how the SJW is so ready to commit metatextual rape.

Avengers thru and thru. Should be used more. And not acting like an ape-girl, AARON! \>\:\(


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    Any others you want to discuss in this vein?



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    It seems I don't buy into the sacred notion of, "Once an Avenger, always an Avenger." To me, at a meta level, some writers have their pet favorites, and when those writers leave the book, their pet favorites leave the mythos. When some later writer tries to make a big deal of the fact that, say, Starfox was an Avenger, it rings false and cheesy to me.

As long as you've done nothing to betray the team, you're "always an Avenger" to me.




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Mr Bojo


Member Since: Sat Dec 01, 2012
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'Once an Avenger, always an Avenger."

Maybe Avenger X should have her status wiped clean. Sentry is possibly another, but his character is a bit weird, his time with New and Dark Avengers was a bit confusing far as his origin.

I wish they would clarify many characters who have been on teams. A-Force was supposed to be a female Avengers group, but it never seemed to happen, though did Medusa have Avengers status during AXIS when the Avengers were inverted and Hercules Gods of War ?


MrBojo


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America's Captain 

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    Quote:

    'Once an Avenger, always an Avenger."



    Quote:
    Maybe Avenger X should have her status wiped clean. Sentry is possibly another, but his character is a bit weird, his time with New and Dark Avengers was a bit confusing far as his origin.


Sentry should note be counted as an Avenger. He's too dangerous. Maybe the Avengers could institute a "probationary" status.


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    I wish they would clarify many characters who have been on teams. A-Force was supposed to be a female Avengers group, but it never seemed to happen, though did Medusa have Avengers status during AXIS when the Avengers were inverted and Hercules Gods of War ?


The idea of Medusa as an Avenger is ludicrous. Her first loyalty will always be to Black Bolt, her second to Attilan, and her third to her cousins. The Avengers will always at best be a distant fourth.

Medusa is a prime example of a character who who was brought in for a specific story line and then was immedaitely dropped when the story line ended. She's a potential ally, nothing more.

Maybe that's a solution. Let the Avengers keep an official list of potential allies. This list would not indicate Avengers, but rather, useful and brave entities willing to help (and generally to be trusted) under the right circumstances.






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The Black Guardian

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    Quote:

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      'Once an Avenger, always an Avenger."

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        Maybe Avenger X should have her status wiped clean. Sentry is possibly another, but his character is a bit weird, his time with New and Dark Avengers was a bit confusing far as his origin.



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    Sentry should note be counted as an Avenger. He's too dangerous. Maybe the Avengers could institute a "probationary" status.



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      I wish they would clarify many characters who have been on teams. A-Force was supposed to be a female Avengers group, but it never seemed to happen, though did Medusa have Avengers status during AXIS when the Avengers were inverted and Hercules Gods of War ?



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    The idea of Medusa as an Avenger is ludicrous. Her first loyalty will always be to Black Bolt, her second to Attilan, and her third to her cousins. The Avengers will always at best be a distant fourth.

Maybe Attilan first, Black Bolt second (she sort of showed this post-Infinity). But I don't think that means much. I'm pretty sure Cap's first loyalty is to the United States. Think about it: if the Avengers decided to pull an Authority? Cap's taking them out, or dying trying.

And every spouse should be a primary loyalty. If I were a cop, my first loyalty would still be to my wife before anyone wearing a badge, unless she did something to end that loyalty.

And family and friends come before any institution, as well. So, it's not so ludicrous. Those are just normal priorities, imo.

Black Panther makes a fine Avenger, as well, imo.
Namor would... if he weren't such a [bleep].

I think you really meant "duty" not "loyalty." I think heads of state have other things to concern themselves so shouldn't try to be heroes, except to direct threats against their nations.




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Reverend Meteor


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    Quote:
    The idea of Medusa as an Avenger is ludicrous. Her first loyalty will always be to Black Bolt, her second to Attilan, and her third to her cousins. The Avengers will always at best be a distant fourth.


But how does that make her different than Black Panther, Thor or Namor?

To me being an Avenger is not something you are but something you do. Several Avengers have other responsibilities like their own kingdom or ongoing series or membership in another group or being a parent that takes priority over their Avengers job.









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naiche


Member Since: Sat Dec 02, 2017
Posts: 88


The old question again and again: Who is an Avenger and who is not! some of us count Spider Man, Cage, Wolverine or Sentry as Avengers, others not. It could only made clear by Marvel or Steve Rogers, Wasp, Iron Man, maybe Hank Pym, Hawkeye, Thor ...
Yes, the problem ist, too many writers make socalled heroes to Avengers (Medusa, Academy, A-Force, Ex-Nihilo, Abyss, Nightmask, Starbrand, Daredevil, Storm, Sandman, Lifecry and many others, but then the are gone (forever?)Not acting as an Avenger anymore or only many years later (like Starfox) Well, Lightning was there in "No surrender", but then gone again. With a Team of seven Avengers, how can we see all the underused Avengers, we count or do not count yet?
Please Marvel, stop to bring in 10 or 20 new Avengers or Avengers Teams every year, if you bring em, keep ém (A.I.Avengers, A-Force, Young Avengers, Dark Avengers, West Coast Avengers,Great Lakes Avengers ...)


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Mr Bojo


Member Since: Sat Dec 01, 2012
Posts: 617


One of the problems I have is when Avengers are gone with no explanation, ex. the past line up of the Avengers, the end of the issue, there was a team, I think the remaining members from all the teams became one tea, which would have been interesting. It would of explained how Johnny, Rogue and the Beast left for personal reasons. The Falcon, Hercules, Squirrel Girl, Cannonball, Wasp and perhaps Spiderman were still around, Hawkeye probably would have stayed. The city was still being rebuilt, there was no reason to disband.

To mean Ironheart joined the Avengers in Marvel Legacy when they were going to let her yell Avengers Assemble, you should be an Avenger to yell it. Plus she was hanging around them afterwards.


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America's Captain 

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    Quote:



    Quote:


      Quote:
      The idea of Medusa as an Avenger is ludicrous. Her first loyalty will always be to Black Bolt, her second to Attilan, and her third to her cousins. The Avengers will always at best be a distant fourth.


    But how does that make her different than Black Panther, Thor or Namor?


Namor as an actual Avenger is ludicrous, just as Namor as an actual X-Man is ludicrous. He should be identified as a potential ally, a useful and brave entity who can be counted on and trusted under the right circumstances.

He wasn't ludicrous as a Defender because the Defenders were never anything more than potential allies to one another. It was entirely personal. Namor would help Doctor Strange, or the Hulk, or the Silver Surfer, because he knew they (even the Hulk) would generally return the favor.

The Defenders as a team concept made a great deal of sense. I'd like to see it return. I know we have a mini-series (or series of one-shots) coming. I'd love to see more come out of that.

Thor, meanwhile, is committed to the protection of Midgard (Earth). Because of that commitment, he makes perfect sense as an Avenger. Heck, he was a founding member, and with good reason. If Loki hadn't done what he did, Thor would likely have founded the Avengers any way.

The Black Panther's membership has been explained as pretty much a spy mission. The Avengers at this point know this, if I'm not mistaken, but since the Panther fulfills his Avenger role with honor and courage, all is accepted.


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    To me being an Avenger is not something you are but something you do. Several Avengers have other responsibilities like their own kingdom or ongoing series or membership in another group or being a parent that takes priority over their Avengers job.


Yes, but with Medusa we're looking at an extreme. Medusa has no loyalty to the human race. We might as well ask Ronan the Accuser or Super Skrull to join.








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America's Captain 

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    Quote:

      Quote:
      The idea of Medusa as an Avenger is ludicrous. Her first loyalty will always be to Black Bolt, her second to Attilan, and her third to her cousins. The Avengers will always at best be a distant fourth.

    Maybe Attilan first, Black Bolt second (she sort of showed this post-Infinity).


You're right. I don't know what I was thinking. Yes, Attilan is first.


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    But I don't think that means much. I'm pretty sure Cap's first loyalty is to the United States. Think about it: if the Avengers decided to pull an Authority? Cap's taking them out, or dying trying.


Here's the difference: The interests of Attilan could differ radically from those of the human race.

Cap's first loyalty is to the human race. Sure, he has an "A" on his forehead, but that doesn't mean he'd choose the USA over humanity. He definitely would not. Medusa would choose Attilan over humanity.


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    And every spouse should be a primary loyalty. If I were a cop, my first loyalty would still be to my wife before anyone wearing a badge, unless she did something to end that loyalty.


True. I wasn't formulating clear thoughts when I talked about Black Bolt and Medusa's cousins. It's only her loyalty to Attilan that makes Medusa a ludicrous Avenger.


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    I think you really meant "duty" not "loyalty." I think heads of state have other things to concern themselves so shouldn't try to be heroes, except to direct threats against their nations.


That's a reasonable restatement of my thesis. "Loyalty" is to the heart what "duty" is to the head.

Thing is, Atlantis has attacked humanity. I don't recall if the Inhumans ever attacked humanity but I know they wouldn't flinch from it if their own interests were best served by doing so.

Wakanda hasn't attacked humanity nor even the United States. If that situation ever changed, the Panther's membership in the Avengers would immediately come into question.

Here's another wrinkle. If the USA attacked humanity, Cap would fight against the USA. If Asgard attacked humanity, Thor would fight against Asgard. Neither man would find it easy to take such a stand, but both men would. Medusa wouldn't. If Attilan attacked humanity, Medusa would probably be their war chief.









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Mr Bojo


Member Since: Sat Dec 01, 2012
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If they are offered membership and accept they're Avengers.

My theory on the Defenders is that they were formed to keep an eye on the Hulk, Namor and Doctor Strange, both part of the Illuminati. In one story discuss having a team of heroes in a different location. When I read this, I thought maybe they also formed the Defenders to keep tabs/an on eye on the Hulk and have him do some good.



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The Black Guardian

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    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        The idea of Medusa as an Avenger is ludicrous. Her first loyalty will always be to Black Bolt, her second to Attilan, and her third to her cousins. The Avengers will always at best be a distant fourth.

      Maybe Attilan first, Black Bolt second (she sort of showed this post-Infinity).



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    You're right. I don't know what I was thinking. Yes, Attilan is first.



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      But I don't think that means much. I'm pretty sure Cap's first loyalty is to the United States. Think about it: if the Avengers decided to pull an Authority? Cap's taking them out, or dying trying.



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    Here's the difference: The interests of Attilan could differ radically from those of the human race.

Barring really bad writers, it shouldn't. What affects one affects the other. And before you bring up Terrigen Clouds, once upon a time writers remembered that Terrigen was hazardous to Inhumans, as well. It wasn't to be distributed to everyone for health reasons.


    Quote:
    Cap's first loyalty is to the human race. Sure, he has an "A" on his forehead, but that doesn't mean he'd choose the USA over humanity. He definitely would not. Medusa would choose Attilan over humanity.

Heavy cross to bear. Avengers shouldn't really be a "humanity first" group or even an "America first" group. Are they EARTH'S mightiest or not? To be blunt, Inhumans are just a subset of humanity, anything else is politicizing. Same goes for Atlanteans.


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      I think you really meant "duty" not "loyalty." I think heads of state have other things to concern themselves so shouldn't try to be heroes, except to direct threats against their nations.



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    That's a reasonable restatement of my thesis. "Loyalty" is to the heart what "duty" is to the head.



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    Thing is, Atlantis has attacked humanity. I don't recall if the Inhumans ever attacked humanity but I know they wouldn't flinch from it if their own interests were best served by doing so.

Inhumans declared war against the US. All of this is politics


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    Wakanda hasn't attacked humanity nor even the United States. If that situation ever changed, the Panther's membership in the Avengers would immediately come into question.

They came very close to declaring war against the US once or twice.

And this is why, imo, whenever jerks from the US government start buzzing around the Avengers Mansion, their buttocks need to be kicked into the Hudson. Avengers should be above this... or rather, outside of this, with no fealty to any state or organization (not even the UN). Just another reason their HQ should be off-shore.


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    Here's another wrinkle. If the USA attacked humanity, Cap would fight against the USA. If Asgard attacked humanity, Thor would fight against Asgard. Neither man would find it easy to take such a stand, but both men would. Medusa wouldn't. If Attilan attacked humanity, Medusa would probably be their war chief.

The USA does attack humanity (mutants are humans). Cap generally turns a blind eye.

What if humanity attacked the USA? Cap's defending his nation.

What if humanity attacked Asgard? Thor's probably defending his planetoid dimension thingy.

It's more of a defense thing, nothing else. Medusa already has a long history of defending the world against Attilan, culminating with the destruction of the Terrigen Cloud. She's the one who did it... it just took her a while.

Namor, too, has a long history of defending the surface against his people. HA! "His people!" He's half surface-dweller.




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Reverend Meteor


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    Quote:
    Here's the difference: The interests of Attilan could differ radically from those of the human race.


But so could the interests of Atlantis, Asgard, Olympus or Olympia. Wakanda's interests may go against America's interests.

I think the Avengers allow for members to be patriotic to their non-American/non human home.

Is it an issue that would come up...absolutely. But I think Avengers are like the United Nations. Collectively you're trying to do a greater good but individually you're trying to improve things for your corner of the world.

Medusa would be a fine Avenger until her people's interests are threatened. But threaten Black Panther or Namor's people and they're not going to sacrifice their citizens for a place in the Avengers.

I don't think Medusa is any different than the rest of us or any of the other Avengers. Threaten her interests or the security of her family and the people she is charged with protecting and she will attack. If someone threatens our family or the people we are charged with protecting I'm sure we can all be as vicious as the criminals we read about.

If nothing else Medusa is a fierce advocate for her people. That means she has at least some of the qualities it takes to be a great Avenger.

Reverend Meteor (I say all this as someone who really can't stand Medusa...I respect her though)






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Reverend Meteor


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    Quote:

    Heavy cross to bear. Avengers shouldn't really be a "humanity first" group or even an "America first" group. Are they EARTH'S mightiest or not? To be blunt, Inhumans are just a subset of humanity, anything else is politicizing. Same goes for Atlanteans.


I agree. If the Avengers choose not to help innocent people because they're not American, or not human or not from the Milky Way galaxy or whatever then they're garbage.

The Avengers should be for everyone. As annoying as Cap can be he's always had the mentality that no one is inferior to anyone else.

(well ok not since before the pre-Marvel days...he was pretty racist during WW2 comics)





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PAAvenger


Member Since: Wed Jun 27, 2018
Posts: 8


Spider-Man- I always wanted him to be an Avenger. He is the best thing about Bendis New Avengers. He appeared in Avengers: Infinity War so people now associate him with the Avengers.

Wolverine- I never wanted him and don't miss him now that he is gone. He belongs to the X-Men.

Luke Cage- I consider Luke to be an Avenger, but not a major one.

Starfox- he is only a minor Avenger. He is largely forgettable.

She-Hulk- one of the greats. She is better for the team than the Hulk.




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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 19,159


Just curious, would either Bats or Supes work as Avengers?


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America's Captain 

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    Quote:
    Just curious, would either Bats or Supes work as Avengers?


I would think certainly yes. For the same reasons they work as Justice League members.











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katefan


Member Since: Thu Nov 08, 2018
Posts: 56


Funny that you should mention some of these characters as I was going through my comic collection and came across Roger Stern's run on The Avengers where She Hulk and Starfox were both introduced as team members.

I loved She Hulk both as an Avenger and member of the FF, the eighties was the high water mark for her especially when John Byrne gave her her own series (And she often broke the fourth wall.). I think it's terrible what they've done with her in the recent comic and Avengers. There is nothing wrong with strong, sexy women in comics but apparently we're supposed to be ashamed of liking that sort of thing.

Starfox? Eh, he was just...there. Like you said, he was a pet character the writer liked and he went away when Stern left. I think he was around though because at the time there was a storyline where Nebula was trying to take over Thanos' legacy (Thanos was dead at this point. Then he got better. You know, comics.).

Also during Stern's run Spider Man had an awesome adventure with the Avengers and I'd have to read those comics again but honestly I'd have to read it again to figure out why Spidey didn't join the team at the time. I think it was a really moronic reason and obviously editorial mandate to keep Marvel's flagship character off the flagship super hero title. Spidey belongs on the team, but only if he's written as a true top tier character. I hate it when writers dismiss him as a joke.

Luke Cage. Eh, never really saw him as an Avenger. Bendis upped his power level which annoyed me because Cage was always a street level hero analogous to Iron Fist and Daredevil.

Wolverine. Bull crap. Wolverine never belonged on the team. He is a killer and I can't see other Avengers outside of maybe Thor being comfortable with him around.

I don't think there is anything wrong with writers having "pet" characters, it's something that's been done for decades in the comic. If writers didn't do it we wouldn't have gotten characters like Patsy Walker/Hellcat. She Hulk wouldn't have risen to prominence without guys like Stern giving her exposure. Avengers should not just be there to showcase Marvel's A-listers, it should be there to introduce new characters as well as dust off B-listers to see who might capture people's imagination. So yeah, while I don't think Luke Cage was Avengers material I can't fault Bendis for giving him a shot.


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The Black Guardian

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    Quote:
    Luke Cage. Eh, never really saw him as an Avenger. Bendis upped his power level which annoyed me because Cage was always a street level hero analogous to Iron Fist and Daredevil.

"Street level" is a mindset not really a power level. Luke pretty much maintained a street level mindset throughout his Avengers career. He was always sort of the outsider who didn't fit in, admitted it, but did his best.

As for power levels, Luke was holding back 747s and taking bazooka fire way back in the 70s or 80s, and was carrying no less than 50-ton construction vehicles and unfazed by Nitro's blasts back in the 90s. He was able to punch through Sue's force field back in the "old" days. Methinks the handbooks never gave him proper justice. "Class 100?" Very possibly he should have always been. Bendis did nothing that wasn't already there.

Not paid for by the Luke Cage for Chairperson of the Decade Committee. ;\)




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America's Captain 

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    Quote:
    As for power levels, Luke was holding back 747s and taking bazooka fire way back in the 70s or 80s, and was carrying no less than 50-ton construction vehicles and unfazed by Nitro's blasts back in the 90s. He was able to punch through Sue's force field back in the "old" days. Methinks the handbooks never gave him proper justice. "Class 100?" Very possibly he should have always been. Bendis did nothing that wasn't already there.


I think this splash page from issue 21 of Luke Cage's original series marked the turning point.

The guy Luke sent flying was of course Erik Josten, who up until this very issue was known as Power Man. He was strong enough to go toe to toe with Hercules. I still remember reading this issue and being bothered by it, because, prior to this issue, Luke hadn't been depicted with anywhere near this level of strength. After this issue, it was normal for Luke to accomplish major feats of strength like this one.










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Reverend Meteor


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I think Erik put Herc in a coma after the Wrecking Crew and Mr. Hyde softened him up.

Plus Erik was Goliath then and was more powerful then when he was Power Man.

As Power Man Erik lost to Cap, Black Widow and future Thunderbolt teammate Hawkeye who are much weaker (and once to Hawkeye when HE was Goliath)






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katefan


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Those are valid points. Every appearance I saw Power Man showed him as not being all that, well, powerful. And yeah, his entry in the Handbook did lend towards the shaping of my opinion on his power level.


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Reverend Meteor


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Posts: 11,689




    Quote:

    Barring really bad writers, it shouldn't. What affects one affects the other. And before you bring up Terrigen Clouds, once upon a time writers remembered that Terrigen was hazardous to Inhumans, as well. It wasn't to be distributed to everyone for health reasons.


I agree with your larger point about the Inhumans needs and the humans needs going hand in hand. But I'm not sure if the last bit about terrigen being hazardous to Inhumans has ever been the case. I don't want to say that idea has NEVER been offered in the comics but if it was it was rare.

Terrigen was lethal to humans or turned them into monsters resembling Triton (like what Dr. Hydro did to Betty Prentiss I think).

Usually the explanation we're given is that terrigen is not offered to the masses (the inhuman population) because the genetic council tries to limit the number of non-beneficial mutations or redundant mutations. Every mutation serves a purpose to enhance their society in some way.

Every Inhuman could potentially go through the process and get a power. But the process could just kill them or leave them hobbled or with a mutation that the creepy little council wants to get rid of. (ok so maybe it CAN be hazardous...but in my opinion they're going through a crucible with the terrigenesis treatment. They're not dying because the chemical is toxic but because the individual Inhuman was lacking in some way. There's some metaphysical mumbo jumbo in play)









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Mr Bojo


Member Since: Sat Dec 01, 2012
Posts: 617


Erik was Goliath at the time he assisted in beating up Hercules, plus prior to that in Avengers #164 we found out his powers weren't what they once were and probably why he was beaten, he then had his powers upgraded by Count Nefaria, he did lose the powers but probably were amped up to his previous levels.

Simon also said that the procedure didn't work as well since it was programmed for him. Wonderman's levels were supposed to be that of Giant-Man's but they didn't really measure strength levels, since Giant Man was slightly in enhanced levels at 10 ft tall, and 50 tons at 100ft. Wonderman has well surpassed those levels over the years.

Luke also has had strength increase to, seems to get higher depending on the writer.



MrBojo


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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689






    Quote:
    Luke also has had strength increase to, seems to get higher depending on the writer.


Was there anything in the comics like in Luke Cage season 1 where Luke's original powers were increased through science? Or is he just getting stronger on his own as time goes on?








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Mr Bojo


Member Since: Sat Dec 01, 2012
Posts: 617


Thought I read he had an upgrade. Original Marvel Handbook had him at 2 tons, then recently he's at 50 and then it was upped to about 60 tons.



MrBojo


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Unstable Molecule


Location: Calgary, AB Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,874



    Quote:
    Spider-Man - Bendis put him on the page a lot, as did Hickman. The No Surrender writers didn't use him. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he doesn't seem to consider himself an Avenger as far as I can tell, bearing in mind I don't buy his books.

I like Spider-man as an Avenger, and if anyone deserves it - both in terms of track record and personal morality - it's him. I wish he didn't cement as an Avenger during a run that was purely about sales, though.


    Quote:
    Wolverine - Bendis put him on the page a lot. Did Hickman? The No Surrender writers didn't use him, because he was dead. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him, I guess because he was dead. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he was dead and I think he's getting a fresh start, clumsy as that that fresh start may be. Also, and to be frank, I never really believed in him as in Avenger. Bendis never convinced me.

Absolutely terrible idea. See my above point about $ale$.


    Quote:
    Luke Cage - Bendis put him on the page a lot. Did Hickman? The No Surrender writers didn't use him. Aaron Belphegore isn't using him. I think in-story he was recruited by Cap. I don't consider him an Avenger any more. I did, but I don't any more, because he doesn't seem to consider himself an Avenger as far as I can tell, bearing in mind I don't buy his books.

I'm not a fan of Bendis, but Bendis made Luke interesting, and I think Luke earned his place as a solid Avenger during Bendis' run.


    Quote:
    Starfox - I don't know how he got on the team. Bendis didn't use him. Did Hickman? Being an Avenger just seemed like a very temporary gig for this immortal character. I can't imagine that he thinks of himself proudly as an Avenger.

I'm sentimental about Stern's run, but Starfox was not one of the high points. He wasn't strong enough or interesting enough to stand out. It did set him up for an interesting role during Infinity Gauntlet. Being related to Thanos is by far the most interesting thing about him.


    Quote:
    She-Hulk - I don't know how she got on the team. I don't think Bendis or Hickman used her. Did they? And yet, if the call went out for Avengers to Assemble, I feel confident She-Hulk would answer the call, and all would acknowledge her right to do so. I know Aaron Belphegore is using her, but let's face it, he's obviously doing it because he can't have the Hulk and there needs to be a Hulkish character because the movies trump all. Also he's completely violating her essential concept. Funny how the SJW is so ready to commit metatextual rape.

She-Hulk is more deserving than half the roster. She is an amazing character and provides an interesting take on feminism. She is a liberated, powerful woman with a high libido. She is sexy, strong, and smart all in one package.





And a lean, silent figure slowly fades into the gathering darkness, aware at last that in this world, with great power there must also come -- great responsibility!
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