Black Panther >> View Thread

Author
Yaw




"Asked about he broke into comics, Quesada said that he was the “luckiest son of a bitch in comics,” and that he persistently asked then-DC editor Jim Owsley (the current Christopher Priest) for work, and the timing was right that he was able to get some work on their licensed Dungeons & Dragons comic."- http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=116636


Man no wonder Quesada seemed to show so much support for Priest and by extension Black PAnther. Just think. If Priest gave Quesada the cold sholder all those years ago, we would probably never have seen a monumental BLack Panther run nor Black Panther prominence today. No BP involvement in any events. No BP in FF4. No BP in World War Hulk. Nothing. And Priest would have probably left comics a whole lot sooner as well.


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Serious




> Man no wonder Quesada seemed to show so much support for Priest and by extension Black PAnther.

That, and Joe Quesada has always said that Black Panther was one of his favorite characters (BP along with Daredevil). And that he once said that he felt that it was important for a comic like the Black Panther to be on the stands.

But you are right, and I had no idea that Priest broke him in. I knew Joe Quesada worked on The Ray with him as the artist, and Priest as the editor (http://www.digital-priest.com/comics/the_ray.htm), but I didn't know it extended any further than that.

Small world, comics.

I saw that Joe Quesada mentioned The Truth as being a disappointment that it didn't catch on more. I agree. We got the Patroit out of it though, and Josiah X. (Josiah X in limbo, but it's not too late to do something with him... )


Yo, I'm Serious



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pantherlord




This makes me really sad to hear this.

Priest made Joe Quesada's career when things where bad for Joe Quesada. Then in return Joe Quesada dumps Priest and picks Reginald Hudlin to destroy the Black Panther's name, it is a real shame.

During Priest's run Black Panther was the most important character in Marvel Comics. Now, Black Panther has been relegated back to just being a supporting guest star that does nothing of importance.


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Jer




> Priest made Joe Quesada's career when things where bad for Joe Quesada. Then in return Joe Quesada dumps Priest and picks Reginald Hudlin to destroy the Black Panther's name

That's completely unfair -- Quesada kept Priest's Black Panther on the shelf for years despite its borderline sales figures, and he even pressed to keep Priest on the book after #49 when Priest himself suggested that he might not be the right guy for the new direction.

We can quibble about whether Marvel pushed the book enough while Priest was on board, but you can't say that Quesada dumped Priest, or that he didn't give the book a more than fair shot during Priest's tenure.

- Jer


Posted with Mozilla 1.8.1.4 on MacOS X
pantherlord




> > Priest made Joe Quesada's career when things where bad for Joe Quesada. Then in return Joe Quesada dumps Priest and picks Reginald Hudlin to destroy the Black Panther's name
>
> That's completely unfair -- Quesada kept Priest's Black Panther on the shelf for years despite its borderline sales figures, and he even pressed to keep Priest on the book after #49 when Priest himself suggested that he might not be the right guy for the new direction.
>
> We can quibble about whether Marvel pushed the book enough while Priest was on board, but you can't say that Quesada dumped Priest, or that he didn't give the book a more than fair shot during Priest's tenure.
>

Yeah, but Quesada still dumped Priest and then he picked Hudlin over Priest to write Black Panther. Imagine if the roles where reversed and Priest decided to dump Quesada efter Quesada made several blunders(Which he has.) as editor-in-chief for years and picks Hudlin over Quesada to take over Quesada's job. Just about everyone would be outraged at Priest for doing this and angry for picking Hudlin over Quesada. A similar thing like this to happened to Priest, except Priest was not to blame for Black Panther's sale numbers which overall where not bad for a new comic book series.


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AndrewMTC




> > > Priest made Joe Quesada's career when things where bad for Joe Quesada. Then in return Joe Quesada dumps Priest and picks Reginald Hudlin to destroy the Black Panther's name
> >
> > That's completely unfair -- Quesada kept Priest's Black Panther on the shelf for years despite its borderline sales figures, and he even pressed to keep Priest on the book after #49 when Priest himself suggested that he might not be the right guy for the new direction.
> >
> > We can quibble about whether Marvel pushed the book enough while Priest was on board, but you can't say that Quesada dumped Priest, or that he didn't give the book a more than fair shot during Priest's tenure.
> >
>
> Yeah, but Quesada still dumped Priest and then he picked Hudlin over Priest to write Black Panther. Imagine if the roles where reversed and Priest decided to dump Quesada efter Quesada made several blunders(Which he has.) as editor-in-chief for years and picks Hudlin over Quesada to take over Quesada's job. Just about everyone would be outraged at Priest for doing this and angry for picking Hudlin over Quesada. A similar thing like this to happened to Priest, except Priest was not to blame for Black Panther's sale numbers which overall where not bad for a new comic book series.

Even considering factors completely out of Priest's control (such as publicity), he was ultimately a significant factor in why BP wasn't a blockbuster book. Many people, it seems, couldn't get into the complicated plotting and storylines and off-kilter narrative techniques (the actual narration and time distortion, among other things); he was given lots of leeway to continue on the book despite bad numbers for so long, which showed the people at Marvel really believed that he was doing what was best with the character at the time and that he should not be punished for it (despite having a small audience). But eventually (and understandably, considering Marvel's usual practices) they wouldn't take the financial burden of supporting such a low-selling book anymore, so they cut it off.

It makes perfect sense that when they eventually brought it back, they felt the need to go in a different direction in order to try and capture an audience the Priest was unable to (but that the character himself might still be capable of). There is no ill-will towards Priest in this particular case, only sound business sense.

As to whether Mr. Hudlin was the ideal candidate for the gig or whether this particular direction was the exact right way to go, that's open for debate (I would say no to both, probably). But they're just trying to do everything they can (publicity, more crossovers, a "Hollywood" writer, etc) to ensure that this attempt at a BP book attracts and keeps more readers than the last. You can't fault Quesada for trying. Fault him for how he did it, if anything \:\)

Check it out: Shu and I (and FLCL) teamed up!



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pantherlord




> > > > Priest made Joe Quesada's career when things where bad for Joe Quesada. Then in return Joe Quesada dumps Priest and picks Reginald Hudlin to destroy the Black Panther's name
> > >
> > > That's completely unfair -- Quesada kept Priest's Black Panther on the shelf for years despite its borderline sales figures, and he even pressed to keep Priest on the book after #49 when Priest himself suggested that he might not be the right guy for the new direction.
> > >
> > > We can quibble about whether Marvel pushed the book enough while Priest was on board, but you can't say that Quesada dumped Priest, or that he didn't give the book a more than fair shot during Priest's tenure.
> > >

Priest's writing was not at all complicated, it was just real writing and not some sentences put together by a hack.

Alan Moore's Watchmen was deemed by nonreaders as complicated too when it first came out, yet now it is know as the world's best and most sold graphic novel.

Black Panther failed not because of Priest who kept the title afloat, but because the Black Panther comic book series was a new series about a character almost no one knew about.

At the same time Black Panther was out Spider-Girl was doing even worse than Black Panther with really low sales and still Quesada kept Spider-Girl going for a one-hundred issues. After these one hundred issues Quesada brought back Spider-Girl as Amazing Spider-Girl and with the same writer and artist that worked on Spider-Girl.

So do not try to defend Quesada's actions, he messed up big.

Of course, I can fault Quesada. Here Quesada had the best comic book writer working for Marvel of all time and instead of utilizing him to write Spider-Man or X-Men he put Priest to work on a new comic book series everybody thought would fail from the start. Priest beyond all expectations keeps the new series going for four years withotu any support and what does he get for all his great work, for his critical acclaim. He gets thrown out and forgotten. Quesada does not even give Priest another title to prove himself with so that later Quesada could bring back Priest to write Black Panther.

Instead Quesada forgets about the best writer at Marvel Comics ever and the guy that made his career. Then he brings bback Black Panther to be written by the worst writer in the history of Marvel Comics.

Quesada is to blame, alright and he is responsible for his actions. If it was real business sense Quesada would have put Priest on Spider-Man or X-Men. Quesada just did whatever he felt like doing, not the right thing, busines or otherwise and that makes all the difference.



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Shroud




> > > > > Priest made Joe Quesada's career when things where bad for Joe Quesada. Then in return Joe Quesada dumps Priest and picks Reginald Hudlin to destroy the Black Panther's name
> > > >
> > > > That's completely unfair -- Quesada kept Priest's Black Panther on the shelf for years despite its borderline sales figures, and he even pressed to keep Priest on the book after #49 when Priest himself suggested that he might not be the right guy for the new direction.
> > > >
> > > > We can quibble about whether Marvel pushed the book enough while Priest was on board, but you can't say that Quesada dumped Priest, or that he didn't give the book a more than fair shot during Priest's tenure.
> > > >
>
> Priest's writing was not at all complicated, it was just real writing and not some sentences put together by a hack.
>
> Alan Moore's Watchmen was deemed by nonreaders as complicated too when it first came out, yet now it is know as the world's best and most sold graphic novel.
>
> Black Panther failed not because of Priest who kept the title afloat, but because the Black Panther comic book series was a new series about a character almost no one knew about.
>
> At the same time Black Panther was out Spider-Girl was doing even worse than Black Panther with really low sales and still Quesada kept Spider-Girl going for a one-hundred issues. After these one hundred issues Quesada brought back Spider-Girl as Amazing Spider-Girl and with the same writer and artist that worked on Spider-Girl.
>
> So do not try to defend Quesada's actions, he messed up big.
>
> Of course, I can fault Quesada. Here Quesada had the best comic book writer working for Marvel of all time and instead of utilizing him to write Spider-Man or X-Men he put Priest to work on a new comic book series everybody thought would fail from the start. Priest beyond all expectations keeps the new series going for four years withotu any support and what does he get for all his great work, for his critical acclaim. He gets thrown out and forgotten. Quesada does not even give Priest another title to prove himself with so that later Quesada could bring back Priest to write Black Panther.
>
> Instead Quesada forgets about the best writer at Marvel Comics ever and the guy that made his career. Then he brings bback Black Panther to be written by the worst writer in the history of Marvel Comics.
>
> Quesada is to blame, alright and he is responsible for his actions. If it was real business sense Quesada would have put Priest on Spider-Man or X-Men. Quesada just did whatever he felt like doing, not the right thing, busines or otherwise and that makes all the difference.
>

You are stating your opinion as fact. Quesada did give Priest books after Black Panther was cancelled. He was given both The Crew and Captain America & the Falcon. Neither did that well and were eventually cancelled. What makes you think Priest would have wanted to do Black Panther after it was cancelled? And after 62 issues of Priest's run, Marvel probably wanted a new writer especially since Priest's run didn't sell that great. It's nothing to do with Quesada abandoning Priest. Sometimes it's best to get a different take on a character. Sales wise Hudlin's version is actually doing much better.

Current sales of series by Hudlin:

Black Panther #1 - 69,930
Black Panther #2 - 47,533
Black Panther #3 - 44,925
Black Panther #4 - 40,804
Black Panther #5 - 37,401
Black Panther #6 - 35,256
Black Panther #7 - 42,905
Black Panther #8 - 46,239
Black Panther #9 - 40,173
Black Panther #10 - 31,987
Black Panther #11 - 29,327
Black Panther #12 - 27,933
Black Panther #13 - 26,054
Black Panther #14 - 28,809
Black Panther #15 - 28,361
Black Panther #16 - 28,091
Black Panther #17 - 27,993
Black Panther #18 - 69,912
Black Panther #19 - 28,372
Black Panther #20 - 26,585
Black Panther #21 - 34,257
Black Panther #22 - 47,556
Black Panther #23 - 54,762
Black Panther #24 - 59,971
Black Panther #25 - 56,479
Black Panther #26 - 51,385
Black Panther #27 - 52,552

Sales by Priest

04/01 Black Panther #31 - 19,699
04/02 Black Panther #43 - 19,883
04/03 Black Panther #57 - 16,431

It's pretty obviously it's been doing much better with the relaunch so it's debatable if Quesada really made a mistake here. You just don't like Hudlin's writing which is a valid opinion but it's just your opinion and obviously a large number of people think otherwise. Even when the current boost from FF crossover ends, I doubt it will go down to 28000 sales (which is still higher than priest's run at this stage of number of issues sold). I don't beleive the current sales increase is just due to the FF crossover or Civil War (which I see as having no effect now). You may not like Hudlin but eventually he will leave and then maybe someone will come on with a writing style you care more for. The fact that it's selling so well means that there probably will be a new writer at some stage since it looks like the series will stay for a while. Personally, I stopped reading the new run after the first couple of issues because I didn't care for the retcon but it certainly looks like a success.




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Bubba2




You know, the Priest or Hudlin argument has been done to death. I don't like Hudlin's take on Panther, so I don't buy it. I liked Priest's take, and I bought it. I'm sure Hudlin is a talented man, you don't get to his position without effort and ability. I just don't like the direction he has taken this character. By the way, I'm not a huge Quesada fan either, but the guy has his moments. What I'm trying to say is this--We can argue all day about why Priest's run was shorter than some of us wanted, and we can argue all day about whether or not Hudlin's run is what we like, but we can't change history. Someday Hudlin will no longer write Panther. That is simply the truth. Who knows what will happen then that we "like" or "dislike"?

Ah well, it is America, and we do have opinions, don't we?

Bubba2

> "Asked about he broke into comics, Quesada said that he was the “luckiest son of a bitch in comics,” and that he persistently asked then-DC editor Jim Owsley (the current Christopher Priest) for work, and the timing was right that he was able to get some work on their licensed Dungeons & Dragons comic."- http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=116636
>
>
> Man no wonder Quesada seemed to show so much support for Priest and by extension Black PAnther. Just think. If Priest gave Quesada the cold sholder all those years ago, we would probably never have seen a monumental BLack Panther run nor Black Panther prominence today. No BP involvement in any events. No BP in FF4. No BP in World War Hulk. Nothing. And Priest would have probably left comics a whole lot sooner as well.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Yaw




> You know, the Priest or Hudlin argument has been done to death. I don't like Hudlin's take on Panther, so I don't buy it. I liked Priest's take, and I bought it. I'm sure Hudlin is a talented man, you don't get to his position without effort and ability. I just don't like the direction he has taken this character. By the way, I'm not a huge Quesada fan either, but the guy has his moments. What I'm trying to say is this--We can argue all day about why Priest's run was shorter than some of us wanted, and we can argue all day about whether or not Hudlin's run is what we like, but we can't change history. Someday Hudlin will no longer write Panther. That is simply the truth. Who knows what will happen then that we "like" or "dislike"?
>
> Ah well, it is America, and we do have opinions, don't we?
>
> Bubba2
>

And yet my post had nothing to do with the PRiest vs. Hudlin argument. Where do you people come from?


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Yaw





> Quesada does not even give Priest another title to prove himself with so that later Quesada could bring back Priest to write Black Panther.
>

Priest had the Crew, Captain American and the Falcon and was offered a solo Falcon ongoing (which he turned down because he was tired of writing Black characters) all of which came after his Panther run ended. THe fact of the matter is that all of his titles failed for whatever reason and he had long had a history of writing failing books within the industry.

Now please quit lying and making insane comments that have no semblance of truth involved. On second thought, keep talking and making yourself look dumber everytime. Good job.



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Bubba2




Well, I was actually responding to the folks below and offering a bit of suppport for you, but since you are a jack-ass (at least in your response to me), maybe I should stop.

Where did your attitude come from, by the way? What did I say that angers you so?

Bubba2, wondering if the post to which he is responding is a good example of the posts he dislikes (Answer: Yes, yes it is!)

> > You know, the Priest or Hudlin argument has been done to death. I don't like Hudlin's take on Panther, so I don't buy it. I liked Priest's take, and I bought it. I'm sure Hudlin is a talented man, you don't get to his position without effort and ability. I just don't like the direction he has taken this character. By the way, I'm not a huge Quesada fan either, but the guy has his moments. What I'm trying to say is this--We can argue all day about why Priest's run was shorter than some of us wanted, and we can argue all day about whether or not Hudlin's run is what we like, but we can't change history. Someday Hudlin will no longer write Panther. That is simply the truth. Who knows what will happen then that we "like" or "dislike"?
> >
> > Ah well, it is America, and we do have opinions, don't we?
> >
> > Bubba2
> >
>
> And yet my post had nothing to do with the PRiest vs. Hudlin argument. Where do you people come from?


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Yaw




> Well, I was actually responding to the folks below and offering a bit of suppport for you, but since you are a jack-ass (at least in your response to me), maybe I should stop.
>
> Where did your attitude come from, by the way? What did I say that angers you so?
>
> Bubba2, wondering if the post to which he is responding is a good example of the posts he dislikes (Answer: Yes, yes it is!)
>
> > > You know, the Priest or Hudlin argument has been done to death. I don't like Hudlin's take on Panther, so I don't buy it. I liked Priest's take, and I bought it. I'm sure Hudlin is a talented man, you don't get to his position without effort and ability. I just don't like the direction he has taken this character. By the way, I'm not a huge Quesada fan either, but the guy has his moments. What I'm trying to say is this--We can argue all day about why Priest's run was shorter than some of us wanted, and we can argue all day about whether or not Hudlin's run is what we like, but we can't change history. Someday Hudlin will no longer write Panther. That is simply the truth. Who knows what will happen then that we "like" or "dislike"?
> > >
> > > Ah well, it is America, and we do have opinions, don't we?
> > >
> > > Bubba2
> > >
> >
> > And yet my post had nothing to do with the PRiest vs. Hudlin argument. Where do you people come from?

If you to respond to someone, respond to their posts. Adding to the incessant Priest vs. Hudlin debate that has nothing to do with this thread is tiresome. Every post on this board is filled with that nonsense. Fine more power to it. But that is not the topic at hand. My post was about how PRiest broke Quesada into the business yet you respond with "I like PRiest and don't like Hudlin." Huh? You sound like a child. I have total respect for people who do not like Hudlin's take on the character. I do not have respect for people who have to bring this up any and every second ANYTIME Priest or Black PAnther is mentioned no matter the topic. It's childish and old.

random person A:Hey guys, I heard Christopher Priest is writing a new TV Show.
random person B:I loved PRiest's Black PAnther and don't like Hudlin's Panther.


A: Hey I heard Black Panther might be in the new FF4 movie.
B: I loved PRiest's Black PAnther and don't like Hudlin's Panther.

A: Hey Priest...
B:I loved PRiest's Black PAnther and don't like Hudlin's Panther.

A: T'Challa...
B:I loved PRiest's Black PAnther and don't like Hudlin's Panther.

Okay let's move on sometime this century okay?



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Ty




> THe fact of the matter is that all of his titles failed for whatever reason and he had long had a history of writing failing books within the industry.
>
PLEASE don't attack me Yaw. \:\-\)

This is just some additional info regarding your words about Priest's last few books.

From Priest's blog:
"On PANTHER, I was always nagged about bringing in new reader, about making the series accessible. Which made perfect sense and was what the company was *supposed* to do. But, my thinking was, there’s only so much audience for Black Panther no matter who’s writing it and no matter what you do. Not to say things couldn’t be better, but, overall, part of the fun of PANTHER is how uncannily wily the guy is. It’s difficult to demonstrate wiliness *and* be completely transparent and accessible all at once. My approach, therefore, was usually to annoy the audience for a few arc installments until Panther started snapping all the mousetraps shut (one of my favorites: T’Challa making a monkey out of Iron Man and stealing his company with one phone call).

Hard to do that and make it episodic and accessible."

"That is, essentially, the BLACK PANTHER problem. Assembled together as a trade, they just read better. I’d crawl across cut glass if Marvel would release ENEMY OF THE STATE ii or STURM UND DRANG as trades. I guarantee they’d make a lot more sense.

Kasper Panther was supposed to have Artist A on it, but he bailed for another project or something, and the whole BLACK AND WHITE arc—which I worked *incredibly* hard on—was given to an artist who’d never *seen* Brooklyn and had no idea at all about urban hip-hop culture: the very things Marvel was pressing us for (suggesting, essentially, that BLACK PANTHER wasn’t “black” or “street” enough).

Which is why I enjoy writing novels. I don’t want to run around blaming artists—I’ve made far more than my own share of mistakes. But, with a novel, I can stand up and go, “Yup, I screwed that up.” In comics, there’s a team. Once a script is delivered to the editor, it’s out of my hands, but I tend to catch all the flak for it."


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Windows XP
Bubba2




Perhaps you should read some of my other posts before judging so harshly Yaw.

I did not criticize Hudlin, I merely acknowledged my opinion.

You, on the other hand, seem intent on fanning the flame of this debate by responding to most of the posts on the topic. Not a good strategy for ending the debate or helping it go away.

Oh, and then you said:

>Every post on this board is filled with that nonsense.

Does the statement "every post" include your own posts? If so, then you could slow down the presence of this unwanted debate by not posting your views on it. Right?

A hopeful Bubba




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Bubba2




By the way, my initial post said that the argument about Priest vs. Hudlin is moot (and really unnecessary). In other words, I agreed with you!

Of course, agreeing with you makes me childish according to you!

So, what does that make you?

Bubba



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Yaw




> Perhaps you should read some of my other posts before judging so harshly Yaw.
>
> I did not criticize Hudlin, I merely acknowledged my opinion.
>
> You, on the other hand, seem intent on fanning the flame of this debate by responding to most of the posts on the topic. Not a good strategy for ending the debate or helping it go away.
>
> Oh, and then you said:
>
> >Every post on this board is filled with that nonsense.
>
> Does the statement "every post" include your own posts? If so, then you could slow down the presence of this unwanted debate by not posting your views on it. Right?
>
> A hopeful Bubba

Simply put your response to my post was off-topic. Everyone has their opinions. I don't knock anyone's opinions except for pantherlord because he has proven himself to be a biased fanboy who relies on untruths to support his views, but that is beside the point. In context of my post your reply has nothing to do with it and everything to do with the incessant complaint(that you say has been done to death) about the current Panther. Forgive if I fail to see how that has anything to do with PRiest breaking Quesada into the comic business. Essentially you acknowledged continually restated opinion that has nothing to do with the topic. I don't understand why you can't see that. I guess my tone makes it harder to realize (or easier to ignore) my point.

I simply don't care to be civil on this board anymore because all discussions lead to the majority on this board complaining about how they don't like Hudlin. I don't evencare for his writing that much myself at times. But I try not to discuss these things on this board because of all of the Hudlin negativity will lead to no enriching discussion.

You don't like Hudlin's work... FINE.

^ Nothing wrong with this. Just please bring it up in discussions that warrant it. Oh and yes discussions often lead on tangents. Responding to the tangent helps to keep this salient.

Going from
Post A: Priest Broke Quesada into Comics
Response: I don't like Hudlin.


^^Makes no sense whatsoever. (Also it looks much like pantherlord trolling.)


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
Yaw




> By the way, my initial post said that the argument about Priest vs. Hudlin is moot (and really unnecessary). In other words, I agreed with you!
>
> Of course, agreeing with you makes me childish according to you!
>
> So, what does that make you?
>
> Bubba
>

You didn't say it was moot. you said it was done to death. THere is a difference.

ANd yes posting on this board tends to make me quite whiny. I don't know what it is...
So yes I am a bit childish around these parts. Oh well off to work.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
Ty




> Even considering factors completely out of Priest's control (such as publicity), he was ultimately a significant factor in why BP wasn't a blockbuster book. Many people, it seems, couldn't get into the complicated plotting and storylines and off-kilter narrative techniques (the actual narration and time distortion, among other things); he was given lots of leeway to continue on the book despite bad numbers for so long, which showed the people at Marvel really believed that he was doing what was best with the character at the time and that he should not be punished for it (despite having a small audience). But eventually (and understandably, considering Marvel's usual practices) they wouldn't take the financial burden of supporting such a low-selling book anymore, so they cut it off.
>
> It makes perfect sense that when they eventually brought it back, they felt the need to go in a different direction in order to try and capture an audience the Priest was unable to (but that the character himself might still be capable of). There is no ill-will towards Priest in this particular case, only sound business sense.
>
> As to whether Mr. Hudlin was the ideal candidate for the gig or whether this particular direction was the exact right way to go, that's open for debate (I would say no to both, probably). But they're just trying to do everything they can (publicity, more crossovers, a "Hollywood" writer, etc) to ensure that this attempt at a BP book attracts and keeps more readers than the last. You can't fault Quesada for trying. Fault him for how he did it, if anything \:\)
>

Actually, I'm not sure who came up with this "non-stop_crossover/tie-in" tactic that Marvel is currently practicing with Hudlin's BP, but this is EXACTLY what Priest needs if/when he decides to do another comic title (featuring an obscure character).

I don't think PriestPanther was ever given a true crossover where events in his book directly affected another popular title in such a way that other readers were actually "forced" to buy a few issues of PriestPanther. Priest was given characters to showcase and include in Panther, but that tactic never translated into sales.

I would almost guarantee that with a dedicated artist and a true push by Marvel (congruent to Hudlin's crossovers, that truly puts Priest's next character in the thick of things with the rest of the Marvel U for more than 2 or 3 issue) I know Priest's next project would do very well.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Windows XP
Yaw




> > THe fact of the matter is that all of his titles failed for whatever reason and he had long had a history of writing failing books within the industry.
> >
> PLEASE don't attack me Yaw. \:\-\)
>
> This is just some additional info regarding your words about Priest's last few books.
>
> From Priest's blog:
> "On PANTHER, I was always nagged about bringing in new reader, about making the series accessible. Which made perfect sense and was what the company was *supposed* to do. But, my thinking was, there’s only so much audience for Black Panther no matter who’s writing it and no matter what you do. Not to say things couldn’t be better, but, overall, part of the fun of PANTHER is how uncannily wily the guy is. It’s difficult to demonstrate wiliness *and* be completely transparent and accessible all at once. My approach, therefore, was usually to annoy the audience for a few arc installments until Panther started snapping all the mousetraps shut (one of my favorites: T’Challa making a monkey out of Iron Man and stealing his company with one phone call).
>
> Hard to do that and make it episodic and accessible."
>
> "That is, essentially, the BLACK PANTHER problem. Assembled together as a trade, they just read better. I’d crawl across cut glass if Marvel would release ENEMY OF THE STATE ii or STURM UND DRANG as trades. I guarantee they’d make a lot more sense.
>
> Kasper Panther was supposed to have Artist A on it, but he bailed for another project or something, and the whole BLACK AND WHITE arc—which I worked *incredibly* hard on—was given to an artist who’d never *seen* Brooklyn and had no idea at all about urban hip-hop culture: the very things Marvel was pressing us for (suggesting, essentially, that BLACK PANTHER wasn’t “black” or “street” enough).
>
> Which is why I enjoy writing novels. I don’t want to run around blaming artists—I’ve made far more than my own share of mistakes. But, with a novel, I can stand up and go, “Yup, I screwed that up.” In comics, there’s a team. Once a script is delivered to the editor, it’s out of my hands, but I tend to catch all the flak for it."


One could make a case for the external factors of why PRiest built a reputation of comic book failures. That is why I said "for whatever reason." My point was that it wasn't always entirely his fault like some Priest haters would lead folks to suggest. In my opinion I look at Priest and hudlin in the same light. They do some things I like and some things I don't like. While I think PRiest may have been a better writer, Hudlin is by far a better business man. But yes PRiest seems to have been screwed on more than one occasions. For me the Crew was the worst. He got bent over big time for that.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP
Ty




> > From Priest's blog:
> > "On PANTHER, I was always nagged about bringing in new reader, about making the series accessible. Which made perfect sense and was what the company was *supposed* to do. But, my thinking was, there�s only so much audience for Black Panther no matter who�s writing it and no matter what you do. Not to say things couldn�t be better, but, overall, part of the fun of PANTHER is how uncannily wily the guy is. It�s difficult to demonstrate wiliness *and* be completely transparent and accessible all at once. My approach, therefore, was usually to annoy the audience for a few arc installments until Panther started snapping all the mousetraps shut (one of my favorites: T�Challa making a monkey out of Iron Man and stealing his company with one phone call).
> >
> > Hard to do that and make it episodic and accessible."
> >
> > "That is, essentially, the BLACK PANTHER problem. Assembled together as a trade, they just read better. I�d crawl across cut glass if Marvel would release ENEMY OF THE STATE ii or STURM UND DRANG as trades. I guarantee they�d make a lot more sense.
> >
> > Kasper Panther was supposed to have Artist A on it, but he bailed for another project or something, and the whole BLACK AND WHITE arc�which I worked *incredibly* hard on�was given to an artist who�d never *seen* Brooklyn and had no idea at all about urban hip-hop culture: the very things Marvel was pressing us for (suggesting, essentially, that BLACK PANTHER wasn�t �black� or �street� enough).
> >
> > Which is why I enjoy writing novels. I don�t want to run around blaming artists�I�ve made far more than my own share of mistakes. But, with a novel, I can stand up and go, �Yup, I screwed that up.� In comics, there�s a team. Once a script is delivered to the editor, it�s out of my hands, but I tend to catch all the flak for it."
>
>
> One could make a case for the external factors of why PRiest built a reputation of comic book failures. That is why I said "for whatever reason." My point was that it wasn't always entirely his fault like some Priest haters would lead folks to suggest. In my opinion I look at Priest and hudlin in the same light. They do some things I like and some things I don't like. While I think PRiest may have been a better writer, Hudlin is by far a better business man. But yes PRiest seems to have been screwed on more than one occasions. For me the Crew was the worst. He got bent over big time for that.

Yeah, his Crew treatment was foul. Even though they tried to appease him with Cap and Falc. (Which they did, but the terrible art ended up screwing that title up anyway.)

Matter of fact when Priest said "there�s only so much audience for Black Panther no matter who�s writing it and no matter what you do.", I think Queseda and Hudlin have totally proven him wrong. And even though Hudlin supporters won't agree with my next assessment, Hudlin has taught Marvel a very valuable lesson.

Hudlin's writing is bad. (LOL) But they are selling 50,000 of these books even with the bad writing. If Marvel really wants to expand sales, offer Priest a job (again), give him a 2 year contract, and then read Hudlin's and Velvet Jones' new book "How To Be A Comic Pimp", and "Cross-Marketerize" (Hudlin's word from his book, not mine - LOL) that new book like crazy. That way you get a really original book and very decent sales figures.

Then like the word "DEF", we can have an all-out funeral for the phrase "Priest-Curse".


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.3 on Windows XP
AndrewMTC




> Actually, I'm not sure who came up with this "non-stop_crossover/tie-in" tactic that Marvel is currently practicing with Hudlin's BP, but this is EXACTLY what Priest needs if/when he decides to do another comic title (featuring an obscure character).
>
> I don't think PriestPanther was ever given a true crossover where events in his book directly affected another popular title in such a way that other readers were actually "forced" to buy a few issues of PriestPanther. Priest was given characters to showcase and include in Panther, but that tactic never translated into sales.
>
> I would almost guarantee that with a dedicated artist and a true push by Marvel (congruent to Hudlin's crossovers, that truly puts Priest's next character in the thick of things with the rest of the Marvel U for more than 2 or 3 issue) I know Priest's next project would do very well.

You know I don't really disagree with you. The thing is, from Marvel's standpoint, they have to assume that any number of things contributed to the low sales of the last BP book. And in order to justify a new try, the character himself couldn't be one of those things. That leaves the writer, the art (Romita was the early fix for that, and I DID enjoy that aspect of the new book hugely), the tone/direction, the publicity, and the tie-ins to more "important" Marvel comics (and perhaps other factors). Marvel really can't be faulted for trying to fix all of those things at once to try and prevent a repeat of Priest's numbers.

But I agree, with similar editorial and marketing pushes, Priest would deliver probably just as many books sold (and for my money, deliver a better artistic product by far). I just can't fault Marvel for wanting to try out new routes for success for a character that has had trouble in the past. I don't like the direction or writer they chose, but I'm not hung up simply on the fact that they picked someone OTHER than Priest.

Check it out: Shu and I (and FLCL) teamed up!



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Bubba2




> You didn't say it was moot. you said it was done to death. THere is a difference.
>
> ANd yes posting on this board tends to make me quite whiny. I don't know what it is...
> So yes I am a bit childish around these parts. Oh well off to work.

Well, we still agree evidently! Have fun at work.

Bubba2


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The Beetle




> I simply don't care to be civil on this board

As long as you stay within the rules of the board you can be civil or uncivil, but no flame wars, no personal insults etc.




Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.4 on Windows XP

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