Captain America Message Board >> View Thread

Author
Quantum


Member Since: Sun Dec 21, 2008
Posts: 1,751




Posted with Google Chrome 56.0.2924.87 on MacOS X
Bob

Hmmm



Grew old an died.

Cosmic cube is making fake memories and inserting in characters like madame hydra.


Posted with Apple iPad 601.1.46
USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,591


He clearly didnt grow old a die, because in the modern day we still have Barnes as the Winter Soldier.

Whats DIDNT happen is that Bucky wasnt blown up by Zemo's experimental bomb, because the last issue of Cap has now established that it was Zemo himself who fell victim of that.

That leaves the mystery of how Barnes lost his arm and ended up in the hands of the Russians.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 51.0 on Windows 10
Quantum


Member Since: Sun Dec 21, 2008
Posts: 1,751


Yes, and I have a feeling I'm not going to like that particular reveal, whatever it'll be, if it turns out that Cap somehow betrayed him.


Posted with Google Chrome 56.0.2924.87 on MacOS X
USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,591


Almost definately.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 51.0 on Windows 10
Bob

Hmm



Reality didn't change bucky history. Only caps memories of a world that don't exist. Also inserting characters who never existed.

Zemo has no memories of Steve being his buddy.


Posted with Apple iPad 601.1.46
Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    Reality didn't change bucky history. Only caps memories of a world that don't exist. Also inserting characters who never existed.



    Quote:
    Zemo has no memories of Steve being his buddy.


hmm...

The book implies you're right that Kobik did something different to Helmut than she did with everyone else at Pleasent Hill.

But why would Helmut work with Steve and embrace him as a friend if his memories/history haven't been altered? If Helmut is unaffected then how did Steve get through to him and get his assistance?

It looks like Helmut is making all these choices out of his own free will. But Helmut wouldn't make these decisions at all unless his past/memories were tampered with.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows 7
Bob

Well



Steve convinced him. Honestly Baron just wants to rule the world. Dudes not exactly sane himself.


Posted with Apple iPad 601.1.46
Reverend Meteor





    Quote:
    Steve convinced him. Honestly Baron just wants to rule the world. Dudes not exactly sane himself.


Yeah but...why the hug? Helmut doesn't hug.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows 10
USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,591


Nick Spencer has already confirmed that Steve history was actually changed. This is NOT implanted memories or brain washing.

Fans asked the quite reasonable question of why the world around Steve hasnt changed if he had been Hydra from the beginning, and these recent stories have been Spencers attempt at explaining this - although he's just made the whole thing just that more convoluted.

What seems to have happened to Zemo is some kind of reality-altering butterfly effect, and I dare say we will see something similar for Bucky in upcoming issues.

The whole thing is a horrible mess, and I'm not asking people to like it, but the new truth is that the man we know as Steve Rogers isnt going to willpower his way out of this, because that man never existed.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows 10
Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,843




    Quote:
    Nick Spencer has already confirmed that Steve history was actually changed. This is NOT implanted memories or brain washing.


But there was also this implication that whatever Kobik did to Helmut was fundamentally different than what she did to everyone else at Pleasent Hill.



    Quote:
    Fans asked the quite reasonable question of why the world around Steve hasnt changed if he had been Hydra from the beginning, and these recent stories have been Spencers attempt at explaining this - although he's just made the whole thing just that more convoluted.



    Quote:
    What seems to have happened to Zemo is some kind of reality-altering butterfly effect, and I dare say we will see something similar for Bucky in upcoming issues.



    Quote:
    The whole thing is a horrible mess, and I'm not asking people to like it, but the new truth is that the man we know as Steve Rogers isnt going to willpower his way out of this, because that man never existed.






Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows 7
USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,591


I dont dispute that the implication that this is a case of history being physically changed is enough to make anyone head hurt, but those are Spencers words that this was NOT brain washing or implanted memories, so thats what we have to go off no matter how stupid it looks on the page.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows XP
Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 10,843




    Quote:
    I dont dispute that the implication that this is a case of history being physically changed is enough to make anyone head hurt, but those are Spencers words that this was NOT brain washing or implanted memories, so thats what we have to go off no matter how stupid it looks on the page.


No I guess I'm not making my posts clear so I apologize. Captain America #12 says Kobik did something different to Zemo than what she did to everyone else at Pleasent Hill.

I'm not saying she didn't alter everyone's histories. I'm saying the book is intentionally telling us she did something fundamentally different to Zemo than what she did to everyone else.

So everyone else= altered histories.

Zemo = not that. Because they're clearly implying it was something else without saying what it is. I'm not saying his memories were altered or he was brainwashed. But they're telling us that changed timeline thing that happened to everyone else isn't what's going on. Even if it is ironically the only logical explanation for his behavior.

They've got a great way to explain Zemo's bad characterization with Kobik editing his history...but they're saying it's something else. And it's vexing.







Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows 7
Predabot


Member Since: Sun Jun 21, 2009
Posts: 544



    Quote:
    Nick Spencer has already confirmed that Steve history was actually changed. This is NOT implanted memories or brain washing.



    Quote:
    Fans asked the quite reasonable question of why the world around Steve hasnt changed if he had been Hydra from the beginning, and these recent stories have been Spencers attempt at explaining this - although he's just made the whole thing just that more convoluted.



    Quote:
    What seems to have happened to Zemo is some kind of reality-altering butterfly effect, and I dare say we will see something similar for Bucky in upcoming issues.



    Quote:
    The whole thing is a horrible mess, and I'm not asking people to like it, but the new truth is that the man we know as Steve Rogers **isnt going to willpower his way out of this, because that man never existed.**


The man Steve is now, is partially now based off of another mother-figure of his, Elisa Sinclaire - however... Not all of him. He still remembers his mother, and all her sacrifices for him.

What do you think will happen, upon the eve of victory, when Steve has contained the power of Kobik and stands as ruler of the world, and it's made clear to him, that Elisa killed his mother...?

He will reject Hydra, and Captain America will prevail.


SO BE IT! SO SAY WE ALL!


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 52.0 on Windows 10

Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2018 Powermad Software