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Bird-Man of Akah Ma'at


Location: Madripoor
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,636


And what a disappointment. Hydra Cap’s defeat is due to

1- Barf, an Inhuman who can vomit anything he can visualize including things like lunchboxes, toys and.. functioning cosmic cube shards?? What the heck?? Why not a couple of infinity gems and some quantum bands while you’re at it. Did anyone really think this thing through?? It’s an insult to the mindless Hulk’s intelligence. And..

2- Good Cap created from Kobik’s memory of him.
So she alters Steve’s character down to its core by manipulating his reality remodeling him into a villain. Then she creates his good version to defeat him.

There was nothing special or heroic about Cap in this story. Nothing about him overcoming the great odds and ultimately being triumphant as Captain America. It was a story about Cap’s potential for evil.

Why not introduce good Cap as the essence the Cube couldn’t change. Couldn’t corrupt. The essence that transcended reality. Incorruptible. The Captain America Kobik couldn’t really defeat, so it just hid him away somewhere. Maybe it’s just me, but that would’ve made a difference for me.


And so I’m assuming Elisa Sinclair was a new creation by Kobik? And still no idea on who the Kraken was?






"I am made of things your philosophy will never comprehend." -Loki
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USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,618



    Quote:
    And what a disappointment. Hydra Cap’s defeat is due to



    Quote:
    1- Barf, an Inhuman who can vomit anything he can visualize including things like lunchboxes, toys and.. functioning cosmic cube shards?? What the heck?? Why not a couple of infinity gems and some quantum bands while you’re at it. Did anyone really think this thing through?? It’s an insult to the mindless Hulk’s intelligence. And..


Yep, the ultimate Deus ex Machina - a walking plot device.

Entire story hangs on the heroes who have spent nine issues failing to get a shard of the cube, getting a shard of the cube? No problem - just create a character who can literally cough one up...

If I didnt know better I would think Spencer was taking the piss with that one.


    Quote:
    2- Good Cap created from Kobik’s memory of him.
    So she alters Steve’s character down to its core by manipulating his reality remodeling him into a villain. Then she creates his good version to defeat him.


Another deus ex machina.

We were told all along that evil Cap was the 'real' Cap - no schenanigans - and in fairness no one is any the wiser now about exactly who is the real Cap.

But again, struggling to progress your story? Just magic something out of thin air.

It all lends to the theories that this wasnt the story Spencer actually wanted to tell, so he had to do some hasty re-writes.


    Quote:
    There was nothing special or heroic about Cap in this story. Nothing about him overcoming the great odds and ultimately being triumphant as Captain America. It was a story about Cap’s potential for evil.


The main issue I had with evil Cap (apart from him being evil) was that he was such a fucking flake.

Good or evil, Captain America is a man who takes decisive action. He doesnt sit around a table whining and letting other people make decisions for him.

Evil Cap should have all the strengths of good Cap, whilst being evil - otherwise the plot device of the 'evil twin' kinda falls flat.

This story wasnt about Caps capacity for evil though. Cap was a proxy for the writers personal feelings about conservatives, Republicans, Trump, the 2016 election, and what he sees at THEIR capacity for evil.


    Quote:
    Why not introduce good Cap as the essence the Cube couldn’t change. Couldn’t corrupt. The essence that transcended reality. Incorruptible. The Captain America Kobik couldn’t really defeat, so it just hid him away somewhere. Maybe it’s just me, but that would’ve made a difference for me.


That would have been a much better idea. It makes more sense than just creating a new Cap from fresh air.


    Quote:

    And so I’m assuming Elisa Sinclair was a new creation by Kobik? And still no idea on who the Kraken was?


this is where it gets even more confusing.

Kobik changes reality into one where Steve joins Hydra as a kid, but that altered reality is in turn one that was altered as it reveals the allies only won WWII by using a cosmic cube to change the outcome.




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Reverend Meteor


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 11,689






    Quote:
    2- Good Cap created from Kobik’s memory of him.
    So she alters Steve’s character down to its core by manipulating his reality remodeling him into a villain. Then she creates his good version to defeat him.


That's what I didn't like. Basically they turned the "real" Cap evil. Then they introduced a good Cap that they more or less told us was fake and was just cobbled together with sugar, spice and everything nice.

The real Steve is still evil. He has not been fixed. And the good Cap is just a fake cobbled together from positive ideals by a cosmic god with the mind of a child.







Posted with Mozilla Firefox 58.0 on Windows 7
Bird-Man of Akah Ma'at


Location: Madripoor
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,636



    Quote:

      Quote:
      And what a disappointment. Hydra Cap’s defeat is due to

      Quote:

        Quote:
        1- Barf, an Inhuman who can vomit anything he can visualize including things like lunchboxes, toys and.. functioning cosmic cube shards?? What the heck?? Why not a couple of infinity gems and some quantum bands while you’re at it. Did anyone really think this thing through?? It’s an insult to the mindless Hulk’s intelligence. And..



    Quote:
    Yep, the ultimate Deus ex Machina - a walking plot device.



    Quote:
    Entire story hangs on the heroes who have spent nine issues failing to get a shard of the cube, getting a shard of the cube? No problem - just create a character who can literally cough one up...



    Quote:
    If I didnt know better I would think Spencer was taking the piss with that one.


I’m making a meme.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      2- Good Cap created from Kobik’s memory of him.
      So she alters Steve’s character down to its core by manipulating his reality remodeling him into a villain. Then she creates his good version to defeat him.



    Quote:
    Another deus ex machina.



    Quote:
    We were told all along that evil Cap was the 'real' Cap - no schenanigans - and in fairness no one is any the wiser now about exactly who is the real Cap.


Yea really. The “real” Cap is supposedly good Cap turned evil Cap by Kobik who then created a new good Cap to replace the good turned evil Cap.


    Quote:
    But again, struggling to progress your story? Just magic something out of thin air.



    Quote:
    It all lends to the theories that this wasnt the story Spencer actually wanted to tell, so he had to do some hasty re-writes.


Probably.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      There was nothing special or heroic about Cap in this story. Nothing about him overcoming the great odds and ultimately being triumphant as Captain America. It was a story about Cap’s potential for evil.



    Quote:
    The main issue I had with evil Cap (apart from him being evil) was that he was such a fucking flake.



    Quote:
    Good or evil, Captain America is a man who takes decisive action. He doesnt sit around a table whining and letting other people make decisions for him.



    Quote:
    Evil Cap should have all the strengths of good Cap, whilst being evil - otherwise the plot device of the 'evil twin' kinda falls flat.


I agree he could’ve been more assertive at times. But maybe Steve is better at being good then he is at being bad. Maybe it’s the good that drives him and not the other way around. I couldn’t help but wonder at times whether there was a conflict within, an inner struggle he was dealing with leading Hydra. I think I was waiting for that moment where he finally came to his senses despite Kobik’s reality manipulations, expecting to see Cap’s steadfast caliber shine in one of the most inspiring moments in comics as it proved unwavering even onto a changing reality. Or something like that.


    Quote:
    This story wasnt about Caps capacity for evil though. Cap was a proxy for the writers personal feelings about conservatives, Republicans, Trump, the 2016 election, and what he sees at THEIR capacity for evil.


Definitely political overtones.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Why not introduce good Cap as the essence the Cube couldn’t change. Couldn’t corrupt. The essence that transcended reality. Incorruptible. The Captain America Kobik couldn’t really defeat, so it just hid him away somewhere. Maybe it’s just me, but that would’ve made a difference for me.



    Quote:
    That would have been a much better idea. It makes more sense than just creating a new Cap from fresh air.


Now that we have two Caps, can’t help but think they might need to be merged in the future to form the “complete” Steve Rogers. One of those stories.


    Quote:

      Quote:

      And so I’m assuming Elisa Sinclair was a new creation by Kobik? And still no idea on who the Kraken was?



    Quote:
    this is where it gets even more confusing.



    Quote:
    Kobik changes reality into one where Steve joins Hydra as a kid, but that altered reality is in turn one that was altered as it reveals the allies only won WWII by using a cosmic cube to change the outcome.


You made me think this one through again and I just caught headache.

Yea it made no sense for her to create another reality just to have it revert to the mainstream one. Guess Spencer was trying to make it seem as if the false past was actually the real one and now Hydra Cap has an enemy to defeat. It is a bit confusing.





"I am made of things your philosophy will never comprehend." -Loki
Posted with Apple iPad 604.5.6
Bird-Man of Akah Ma'at


Location: Madripoor
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,636



    Quote:



    Quote:


      Quote:
      2- Good Cap created from Kobik’s memory of him.
      So she alters Steve’s character down to its core by manipulating his reality remodeling him into a villain. Then she creates his good version to defeat him.



    Quote:
    That's what I didn't like. Basically they turned the "real" Cap evil. Then they introduced a good Cap that they more or less told us was fake and was just cobbled together with sugar, spice and everything nice.



    Quote:
    The real Steve is still evil. He has not been fixed. And the good Cap is just a fake cobbled together from positive ideals by a cosmic god with the mind of a child.



    Quote:



Kobik could’ve also had replaced good real Cap with a new created Hydra Cap while preserving good Cap in her mindscape and Spencer just flat out lied about “real” evil Cap.

Think I’ll settle for SE as a story told by Kobik to Deadpool in a “who could tell the most outlandish story” contest...
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/b4k-aeKgKe0gC7DNV1vrtu6OGlCNHRPBHpkmsE77tHPmDUm1EAdLM04HFqfcY7ChhaD7bFVBMJA=s0




"I am made of things your philosophy will never comprehend." -Loki
Posted with Apple iPad 604.5.6
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 3,230


...this all felt like...why did I bother?

Chaotic mishmash of characters I felt absolutely nothing for...some of the writing felt like it almost could have been good...but in the end it felt like a hamhanded political story.


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USAgentfan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,618


Its one big mess of a story that kept getting more confusing even right at the end when spencer should have been diffusing it a little.

Love the meme though!


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 58.0 on Windows 10
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 3,230


>


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 10
Bird-Man of Akah Ma'at


Location: Madripoor
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,636


I feel your pain brother. It was a flop.

I agree there was some potential there, but Spencer just dropped the ball towards the end. At least the Mjolnir thing was explained.






"I am made of things your philosophy will never comprehend." -Loki
Posted with Apple iPad 604.5.6
MysteryMan


Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 3,230



    Quote:
    I feel your pain brother. It was a flop.



    Quote:
    I agree there was some potential there, but Spencer just dropped the ball towards the end. At least the Mjolnir thing was explained.


Kinda...though it made Mjolnir kinda meh imo.

I saw snippets of good writing...but calling people he doesn't like Nazi's also doesn't help do anything but color what he writes and make the ham handed political agenda so terribly blatant.

Potential? A lot. Cosmic Cube shennanigains...booorrringggg deux es machine.

Oh well maybe after Waid leaves we will get a decent Cap back.


Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7

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