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JesusFan




Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...

Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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Bootch




> Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
>
> Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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Braugi




he's WAY above Terrax, Absorbing Man, etc, who are at least in Superman's ballpark. The Ultron showing throws SOME question as to Sentry's full power level, but he's been consistently above herald and near herald levellers, ESPECIALLY considering showings by the Void as well.

> Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
>
> Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Daveym




> Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
>
> Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?

He does seem to be of a lower level of power than he was, the Helicarrier feat was comparable to any DC top tier though so strengthwise he's in the same area as a DC type perhaps, evidence for Sentry though remains a little thin on the ground for any true assesment and there is a lot more to winning a fight than just strength.
Superman brings more to the table than current Sentry does anyway, experience being the key factor as Superman is comfortable fighting foes who's powers mimic his and may even be stronger; Sentry can't compete with that particular edge...

The additional copout when considering Sentrys power is his relationship with the Void and the fact his power goes up & down depending on his mental wellbeing, one day he can own Terrax but next day struggle with the Helicarrier 8\-\)




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Neptune73




> > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> >
> > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?
>
> He does seem to be of a lower level of power than he was, the Helicarrier feat was comparable to any DC top tier though so strengthwise he's in the same area as a DC type perhaps, evidence for Sentry though remains a little thin on the ground for any true assesment and there is a lot more to winning a fight than just strength.
> Superman brings more to the table than current Sentry does anyway, experience being the key factor as Superman is comfortable fighting foes who's powers mimic his and may even be stronger; Sentry can't compete with that particular edge...
>
> The additional copout when considering Sentrys power is his relationship with the Void and the fact his power goes up & down depending on his mental wellbeing, one day he can own Terrax but next day struggle with the Helicarrier 8\-\)
>
> thats why hulk will beat the sentry when they fight..sentry mentally doesnt want to fight the hulk and for that his power level will be off to the point where after a long brutal fight will get owned by the hulk..Sentry to me should be in DC his power level fits in with other DC type powerhouses..superman/Captain marvel/Black adam and so on..thats why marvel gave he a mental weakness to keep his power/strength in check and give other class 100 type heros/villians a chance of beating him..if not then hed own other powerful character like he did Terrax/Absorbingman..and do it easily i might add..give hima weakness(like gladiator confidenance)makes him more vunerable and keeps him interesting..

Neptune73


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dave




> Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
>
> Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?

I've always said that it's really hard to compare strength and speed feats across universes, especially because of inconsistencies in appearances. The only way to argue this is based on how you feel it out. Superman is a top tier guy in terms of stength in DC and Hulk is the same in Marvel. Now it would be quite the leap to assume that either is stronger or weaker than the other but we have no evidence to support this other than inconsistent feats. The only thing we know is that when Superman slugged it out with Hulk and Thor that they were in the same ballpark, peers to a degree. I use these showings to justify my belief that a cl100 in Marvel is a cl100 in DC. However, based on appearances I would say that the big guns in DC are on the upper limits of cl100 with Hulk.

Now Sentry has shown speed and strength feats comparable to what we've seen of Superman. We've also seen him (briefly) display EP in the upper herald range. He also has a slew of other powers used inconsistently. At the same time, Superman has several powers of his own and when going all out there doesn't seem to be anyone that can stop him. Based on stats alone, I would bet on Sentry. If he has stength and speed comparable to Supes then the other powers should give him the win. Supes had a tough time with Thor and so far we have seen Sentry do things I don't think Thor could ever manage. He man handled Absorbing Man, took on the Collective, fought even with Ultron, etc. These are all things Thor didn't really do on his best day.

However, Sentry stands to lose a lot. He hasn't really had any low showings but there is always a danger when different writers use you. He's yet to use any power other than his fists in Avengers, Silent War, and other appearances. There is a good chance that, like Iron Man, he will go in WWH just swinging like brick and lose, which will likely mean a quick fade away into comic history.

So I say Sentry should win but do to "factors" and not using his other powers Sentry would lose. A good twist to the story would be to have Superman, the solar battery that he is, weaken Sentry just be staying around.


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dave





> The additional copout when considering Sentrys power is his relationship with the Void and the fact his power goes up & down depending on his mental wellbeing, one day he can own Terrax but next day struggle with the Helicarrier 8\-\)
>

Strength feats work differently in Marvel though. Busiek even said so in the crossover. Top tier guys are supposed to lift 100 tons yet the hellicarrier had to weight thousands and thousands of tons. Go figure. I think that this feat is comparable to a DC feat. On top of that, I don't see what is the big deal about him gritting his teeth for two small panels. Superman does this all the time when he lifts large things. Unless it says somewhere that it was too heavy for him than I don't think it's true. Still, if Sentry were in the DCU I think he'd be pulling Black Adam type feats.


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Daveym




>
> > The additional copout when considering Sentrys power is his relationship with the Void and the fact his power goes up & down depending on his mental wellbeing, one day he can own Terrax but next day struggle with the Helicarrier 8\-\)
> >
>
> Strength feats work differently in Marvel though. Busiek even said so in the crossover. Top tier guys are supposed to lift 100 tons yet the hellicarrier had to weight thousands and thousands of tons. Go figure. I think that this feat is comparable to a DC feat. On top of that, I don't see what is the big deal about him gritting his teeth for two small panels. Superman does this all the time when he lifts large things. Unless it says somewhere that it was too heavy for him than I don't think it's true. Still, if Sentry were in the DCU I think he'd be pulling Black Adam type feats.

Class 100 is just a classification not a law! Many of Marvels characters regularly lift way more than 100 tonnes.

I never said Sentry couldn't stop the helicarrier it's just a question of stopping time before it impacts with the ground and he was running out of that time. It seems likely that his power was fluctuating at that point as he seemed surprised at his inability to perform better with it... we've discussed this plenty on the board anyway and my feeling is that Sentrys performance there was perfectly equal to what DC top tier are capable of - any one of DCs top guns would have struggled with that carrier in those circumstances.


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Neptune73




>
> > The additional copout when considering Sentrys power is his relationship with the Void and the fact his power goes up & down depending on his mental wellbeing, one day he can own Terrax but next day struggle with the Helicarrier 8\-\)
> >
>
> Strength feats work differently in Marvel though. Busiek even said so in the crossover. Top tier guys are supposed to lift 100 tons yet the hellicarrier had to weight thousands and thousands of tons. Go figure. I think that this feat is comparable to a DC feat. On top of that, I don't see what is the big deal about him gritting his teeth for two small panels. Superman does this all the time when he lifts large things. Unless it says somewhere that it was too heavy for him than I don't think it's true. Still, if Sentry were in the DCU I think he'd be pulling Black Adam type feats.

with others of his statue in power/strength.I agree with you if he was in DCU hed be fighting other his equal or better on a regular bases and not have some *mental problem* cough..cough..holding him back..hes above others in marvel(whether it be by a large margin/or a slight)and hed feel right at home in DCU...marvel should swap him with a few DC character and make a comic book trade IMHO!!who would you trade for to make a deal thou??

Neptune73


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Dark Marvel




> >
> > > The additional copout when considering Sentrys power is his relationship with the Void and the fact his power goes up & down depending on his mental wellbeing, one day he can own Terrax but next day struggle with the Helicarrier 8\-\)
> > >
> >
> > Strength feats work differently in Marvel though. Busiek even said so in the crossover. Top tier guys are supposed to lift 100 tons yet the hellicarrier had to weight thousands and thousands of tons. Go figure. I think that this feat is comparable to a DC feat. On top of that, I don't see what is the big deal about him gritting his teeth for two small panels. Superman does this all the time when he lifts large things. Unless it says somewhere that it was too heavy for him than I don't think it's true. Still, if Sentry were in the DCU I think he'd be pulling Black Adam type feats.
>
> with others of his statue in power/strength.I agree with you if he was in DCU hed be fighting other his equal or better on a regular bases and not have some *mental problem* cough..cough..holding him back..hes above others in marvel(whether it be by a large margin/or a slight)and hed feel right at home in DCU...marvel should swap him with a few DC character and make a comic book trade IMHO!!who would you trade for to make a deal thou??
>
> Neptune73


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Neptune73




> > >
> > > > The additional copout when considering Sentrys power is his relationship with the Void and the fact his power goes up & down depending on his mental wellbeing, one day he can own Terrax but next day struggle with the Helicarrier 8\-\)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Strength feats work differently in Marvel though. Busiek even said so in the crossover. Top tier guys are supposed to lift 100 tons yet the hellicarrier had to weight thousands and thousands of tons. Go figure. I think that this feat is comparable to a DC feat. On top of that, I don't see what is the big deal about him gritting his teeth for two small panels. Superman does this all the time when he lifts large things. Unless it says somewhere that it was too heavy for him than I don't think it's true. Still, if Sentry were in the DCU I think he'd be pulling Black Adam type feats.
> >
> > with others of his statue in power/strength.I agree with you if he was in DCU hed be fighting other his equal or better on a regular bases and not have some *mental problem* cough..cough..holding him back..hes above others in marvel(whether it be by a large margin/or a slight)and hed feel right at home in DCU...marvel should swap him with a few DC character and make a comic book trade IMHO!!who would you trade for to make a deal thou??
> >
> > Neptune73

id like to see BA take on other power house in marvel like hulk/thor and more superman types marvel has to offer as well gladiator/hyperion come to mind..and him being a magic type character him fighting against Doc strange would be awesome!! heck even going to atlantis and battleing namor..talk about oceans turned inside out!!he taking on both avengers teams would be cool..so muck untapped potietal BA would bring to marvel!! wonderwoman joining the avengers,,battleing against hulk,hercules,thor would be a blast since shes fought against superman she could and would hold her own!!a battle against she hulk or titinia would be a blast..marvel make it happen!!!

Neptune73



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Tanthius




> he's WAY above Terrax, Absorbing Man, etc, who are at least in Superman's ballpark. The Ultron showing throws SOME question as to Sentry's full power level, but he's been consistently above herald and near herald levellers, ESPECIALLY considering showings by the Void as well.

You would need to be skyfather level to do that to a herald. The Terrax showing is one of the worst bits of writing I've ever seen. Thanos was able to down Surfer in seven punches. Sentry was able to best Terrax in 2. So that would put Sentry above Thanos who is low skyfather level. Thus Sentry is a solid Skyfather... cough cough.
>
> > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> >
> > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."


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Braugi




> > he's WAY above Terrax, Absorbing Man, etc, who are at least in Superman's ballpark. The Ultron showing throws SOME question as to Sentry's full power level, but he's been consistently above herald and near herald levellers, ESPECIALLY considering showings by the Void as well.
>
> You would need to be skyfather level to do that to a herald. The Terrax showing is one of the worst bits of writing I've ever seen. Thanos was able to down Surfer in seven punches. Sentry was able to best Terrax in 2. So that would put Sentry above Thanos who is low skyfather level. Thus Sentry is a solid Skyfather... cough cough.
> >
> > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > >
> > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?
>
> "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."


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JesusFan




> he's WAY above Terrax, Absorbing Man, etc, who are at least in Superman's ballpark. The Ultron showing throws SOME question as to Sentry's full power level, but he's been consistently above herald and near herald levellers, ESPECIALLY considering showings by the Void as well.
> Thing is though about Supes and Sentry...
DC has ALWAYS set up Supes as being the "go to " Guy when the chips are down... Darkseid threatening earth/Imperiex/Maggeddon etc...
And he is shown to be able to "handle" DD, darkseid, Brainiac etc, more so than any other DC hero...
Agree with you that it looks like Sentry operates at higher levels on a "normal" fashion, but still hold that when he needs to, DC always allows Supes to "dial up to 11" to get the job done...
So would say Sentry on average looks>Supes, but that when Supes is in that "got to win" mode, he should be able to take out Sentry, especially if Marvel still has Robert with mental hang ups and lack of confidence thing going on!
> > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> >
> > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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dave




> >
> > > The additional copout when considering Sentrys power is his relationship with the Void and the fact his power goes up & down depending on his mental wellbeing, one day he can own Terrax but next day struggle with the Helicarrier 8\-\)
> > >
> >
> > Strength feats work differently in Marvel though. Busiek even said so in the crossover. Top tier guys are supposed to lift 100 tons yet the hellicarrier had to weight thousands and thousands of tons. Go figure. I think that this feat is comparable to a DC feat. On top of that, I don't see what is the big deal about him gritting his teeth for two small panels. Superman does this all the time when he lifts large things. Unless it says somewhere that it was too heavy for him than I don't think it's true. Still, if Sentry were in the DCU I think he'd be pulling Black Adam type feats.
>
> Class 100 is just a classification not a law! Many of Marvels characters regularly lift way more than 100 tonnes.
>

That's what I said. It's also why I didn't say 100 tons. Class 20 doesn't even mean 20 tons anymore. Spidey is rated class 25 and he only lifts 20 tons.

> I never said Sentry couldn't stop the helicarrier it's just a question of stopping time before it impacts with the ground and he was running out of that time. It seems likely that his power was fluctuating at that point as he seemed surprised at his inability to perform better with it... we've discussed this plenty on the board anyway and my feeling is that Sentrys performance there was perfectly equal to what DC top tier are capable of - any one of DCs top guns would have struggled with that carrier in those circumstances.


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Braugi




> > he's WAY above Terrax, Absorbing Man, etc, who are at least in Superman's ballpark. The Ultron showing throws SOME question as to Sentry's full power level, but he's been consistently above herald and near herald levellers, ESPECIALLY considering showings by the Void as well.
> > Thing is though about Supes and Sentry...
> DC has ALWAYS set up Supes as being the "go to " Guy when the chips are down... Darkseid threatening earth/Imperiex/Maggeddon etc...
> And he is shown to be able to "handle" DD, darkseid, Brainiac etc, more so than any other DC hero...

DD, Darkseid, etc are all in the Thor ballpark as well. Sorry, but Thor has ALSO risen to the occasion against these supposed 'uber' threats, like a Celestial, Galactus, etc. It doesn't change that he operates on a given level that is consistent with Superman's. I'm not saying Superman or Thor couldn't be a substantial underdog and pull a huge upset, but the bottom line is that Sentry is greater.


> Agree with you that it looks like Sentry operates at higher levels on a "normal" fashion, but still hold that when he needs to, DC always allows Supes to "dial up to 11" to get the job done...

If you factor in the Void showings, Sentry operates on a MUCH higher scale than either, and Supes, dialed up to 11 STILL is the underdog.

> So would say Sentry on average looks>Supes, but that whe
n Supes is in that "got to win" mode, he should be able to take out Sentry, especially if Marvel still has Robert with mental hang ups and lack of confidence thing going on!

That might allow Supes, Thor, etc to pull the upset, true. Its still an upset, however.

> > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > >
> > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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ARCHNEMESIS




> Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
>
> Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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Hyperion




> > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> >
> > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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Tanthius




> > > he's WAY above Terrax, Absorbing Man, etc, who are at least in Superman's ballpark. The Ultron showing throws SOME question as to Sentry's full power level, but he's been consistently above herald and near herald levellers, ESPECIALLY considering showings by the Void as well.
> >
> > You would need to be skyfather level to do that to a herald. The Terrax showing is one of the worst bits of writing I've ever seen. Thanos was able to down Surfer in seven punches. Sentry was able to best Terrax in 2. So that would put Sentry above Thanos who is low skyfather level. Thus Sentry is a solid Skyfather... cough cough.
> > >
> > > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > > >
> > > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?
> >
> > "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."


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JesusFan




> > > he's WAY above Terrax, Absorbing Man, etc, who are at least in Superman's ballpark. The Ultron showing throws SOME question as to Sentry's full power level, but he's been consistently above herald and near herald levellers, ESPECIALLY considering showings by the Void as well.
> > > Thing is though about Supes and Sentry...
> > DC has ALWAYS set up Supes as being the "go to " Guy when the chips are down... Darkseid threatening earth/Imperiex/Maggeddon etc...
> > And he is shown to be able to "handle" DD, darkseid, Brainiac etc, more so than any other DC hero...
>
> DD, Darkseid, etc are all in the Thor ballpark as well. Sorry, but Thor has ALSO risen to the occasion against these supposed 'uber' threats, like a Celestial, Galactus, etc. It doesn't change that he operates on a given level that is consistent with Superman's. I'm not saying Superman or Thor couldn't be a substantial underdog and pull a huge upset, but the bottom line is that Sentry is greater.

This seems to prove my point though concerning Supes and Thor...
Believe that BOTH of them are so used to fighting against "lesser" beings on Earth, hanging out among Humans so much...
That both of them have placed big time mental restraints upon use of their Full power levels, in order not to cause someone to be killed off, and also not to "show" up their fellow JLA/Avengers members...
Say Again, either Supes/Thor going all out would be a suitable match for the Sentry, as I do not see Sentry as being in Odin ball park, and hard pressed to see him even able to defeat Thanos in a real fight..
>
>
> > Agree with you that it looks like Sentry operates at higher levels on a "normal" fashion, but still hold that when he needs to, DC always allows Supes to "dial up to 11" to get the job done...
>
> If you factor in the Void showings, Sentry operates on a MUCH higher scale than either, and Supes, dialed up to 11 STILL is the underdog.

Have to factor in Supes as a "Cosmic" being though on OWAW, so still think both are about the same at highest showings...
>
> > So would say Sentry on average looks>Supes, but that whe
> n Supes is in that "got to win" mode, he should be able to take out Sentry, especially if Marvel still has Robert with mental hang ups and lack of confidence thing going on!
>
> That might allow Supes, Thor, etc to pull the upset, true. Its still an upset, however.

Think that Marvel is right now rethinking having the "Marvel Superman" operating at those levels, and see coming either a depowering for Sentry, Hulk/Thor boosting up to match him, or else Sentry will be leaving the Earth, rarely to be seen heard from again!
>
> > > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > > >
> > > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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Braugi




probes JUST as effectively and efficiently.



> > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> >
> > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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Braugi




> > > > he's WAY above Terrax, Absorbing Man, etc, who are at least in Superman's ballpark. The Ultron showing throws SOME question as to Sentry's full power level, but he's been consistently above herald and near herald levellers, ESPECIALLY considering showings by the Void as well.
> > > > Thing is though about Supes and Sentry...
> > > DC has ALWAYS set up Supes as being the "go to " Guy when the chips are down... Darkseid threatening earth/Imperiex/Maggeddon etc...
> > > And he is shown to be able to "handle" DD, darkseid, Brainiac etc, more so than any other DC hero...
> >
> > DD, Darkseid, etc are all in the Thor ballpark as well. Sorry, but Thor has ALSO risen to the occasion against these supposed 'uber' threats, like a Celestial, Galactus, etc. It doesn't change that he operates on a given level that is consistent with Superman's. I'm not saying Superman or Thor couldn't be a substantial underdog and pull a huge upset, but the bottom line is that Sentry is greater.
>
> This seems to prove my point though concerning Supes and Thor...
> Believe that BOTH of them are so used to fighting against "lesser" beings on Earth, hanging out among Humans so much...
> That both of them have placed big time mental restraints upon use of their Full power levels, in order not to cause someone to be killed off, and also not to "show" up their fellow JLA/Avengers members...
> Say Again, either Supes/Thor going all out would be a suitable match for the Sentry, as I do not see Sentry as being in Odin ball park, and hard pressed to see him even able to defeat Thanos in a real fight..
> >
And yet, why would Thor and the others hold back so much against Terrax? I can see the arguement with most of the others, but NOT to so casually dismiss Terrax. Sorry, I don't see Thor, Superman, Surfer, or anyone else in that ballpark as being able to do that.

> >
> > > Agree with you that it looks like Sentry operates at higher levels on a "normal" fashion, but still hold that when he needs to, DC always allows Supes to "dial up to 11" to get the job done...
> >
> > If you factor in the Void showings, Sentry operates on a MUCH higher scale than either, and Supes, dialed up to 11 STILL is the underdog.
>
> Have to factor in Supes as a "Cosmic" being though on OWAW, so still think both are about the same at highest showings...
> >
> > > So would say Sentry on average looks>Supes, but that whe
> > n Supes is in that "got to win" mode, he should be able to take out Sentry, especially if Marvel still has Robert with mental hang ups and lack of confidence thing going on!
> >
> > That might allow Supes, Thor, etc to pull the upset, true. Its still an upset, however.
>
> Think that Marvel is right now rethinking having the "Marvel Superman" operating at those levels, and see coming either a depowering for Sentry, Hulk/Thor boosting up to match him, or else Sentry will be leaving the Earth, rarely to be seen heard from again!
> >
> > > > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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ARCHNEMESIS




So that doesn't surprise me that he could go through those probes.

And Superman owned Doomsday.

It's a far more impressive showing that anything I've ever seen Sentry do.

> probes JUST as effectively and efficiently.
>
>
>
> > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > >
> > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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ARCHNEMESIS




...with a character who has been around for barely over a year with, what, two writers?

You're bound to see more inconsistency. But I think what's been made clear is that Superman holds back all the time. It's when he doesn't that you see his high showings...and those high showings are a match and more for Sentry's high showings.

Now, you could argue that it's possible that even under Sentry's highest showings that maybe he was still holding back. But we don't know that because the character is too new and we haven't seen him face the most dire circumstances yet. When he does, we'll get our answers.

> > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > >
> > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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Braugi




> So that doesn't surprise me that he could go through those probes.
>
> And Superman owned Doomsday.
>
Superman owned Doomsday AFTER he had started to feel pain, fear, and had developed intelligence. Heck, even earlier in that story, DD was knocking Superman around like nothing, then lost his 'confidence' and fell apart. That just goes to show Doomsday had LOST power from OWAW.

OWAW Doomsday owned the JLA no easier than Fernus, with Jonn's normal powerset, so again, DD is peer to Superman, is peer to Jonn, etc. Not really so impressive, as BA, Superman, Jonn, and others have ALL shown the same sorts of capacity during one of DC's 'hype the character of the month' showings, and Marvel HAS had characters do similar things.


> It's a far more impressive showing that anything I've ever seen Sentry do.
>
> > probes JUST as effectively and efficiently.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > > >
> > > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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ARCHNEMESIS




Like Jonn said, there were those more powerful, stronger and faster than Black Adam, but real power is in the mind.

Sentry's mentality would cause him to lose against Superman, who, when it comes down to it, is the most mentally put together superhero in either universe. That's why he can rise to any occasion in a way that, say, Jonn can't even with so much at stake against Black Adam.

As for the feats - Terrax wasn't even herald level when he lost to Sentry. So again, Superman owning a team beater, who in turn owned dozens of team beaters, is more impressive than Sentry owning a half-herald who is just barely a team beater...while going all out.

> > So that doesn't surprise me that he could go through those probes.
> >
> > And Superman owned Doomsday.
> >
> Superman owned Doomsday AFTER he had started to feel pain, fear, and had developed intelligence. Heck, even earlier in that story, DD was knocking Superman around like nothing, then lost his 'confidence' and fell apart. That just goes to show Doomsday had LOST power from OWAW.
>
> OWAW Doomsday owned the JLA no easier than Fernus, with Jonn's normal powerset, so again, DD is peer to Superman, is peer to Jonn, etc. Not really so impressive, as BA, Superman, Jonn, and others have ALL shown the same sorts of capacity during one of DC's 'hype the character of the month' showings, and Marvel HAS had characters do similar things.
>
>
> > It's a far more impressive showing that anything I've ever seen Sentry do.
> >
> > > probes JUST as effectively and efficiently.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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Braugi




> Like Jonn said, there were those more powerful, stronger and faster than Black Adam, but real power is in the mind.
>
> Sentry's mentality would cause him to lose against Superman, who, when it comes down to it, is the most mentally put together superhero in either universe. That's why he can rise to any occasion in a way that, say, Jonn can't even with so much at stake against Black Adam.
>
> As for the feats - Terrax wasn't even herald level when he lost to Sentry. So again, Superman owning a team beater, who in turn owned dozens of team beaters, is more impressive than Sentry owning a half-herald who is just barely a team beater...while going all out.
>
Why wasn't he...sure, its post restored power by Dr. Doom, but so were several of his 'pretty good' showings, including his recent splitting of a planet with his axe, as well as his pretty good showing against WOL Morg, where he was CLEARLY shown as superior to Firelord. Sorry, even after having his powers restored by Doom, Terrax has proven he's at the herald level, and solidly at that, even if he no longer shows the level of versatility he used to.


> > > So that doesn't surprise me that he could go through those probes.
> > >
> > > And Superman owned Doomsday.
> > >
> > Superman owned Doomsday AFTER he had started to feel pain, fear, and had developed intelligence. Heck, even earlier in that story, DD was knocking Superman around like nothing, then lost his 'confidence' and fell apart. That just goes to show Doomsday had LOST power from OWAW.
> >
> > OWAW Doomsday owned the JLA no easier than Fernus, with Jonn's normal powerset, so again, DD is peer to Superman, is peer to Jonn, etc. Not really so impressive, as BA, Superman, Jonn, and others have ALL shown the same sorts of capacity during one of DC's 'hype the character of the month' showings, and Marvel HAS had characters do similar things.
> >
> >
> > > It's a far more impressive showing that anything I've ever seen Sentry do.
> > >
> > > > probes JUST as effectively and efficiently.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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gumbo




> ...with a character who has been around for barely over a year with, what, two writers?
>

Actually; he has been around since 2000; near a decade now....for the new guy on the block; the Sentry's not really so new anymore.

Makes me wonder, how long till the new "most powerful hero in the universe" shows up and gets his push?



> You're bound to see more inconsistency. But I think what's been made clear is that Superman holds back all the time. It's when he doesn't that you see his high showings...and those high showings are a match and more for Sentry's high showings.
>
> Now, you could argue that it's possible that even under Sentry's highest showings that maybe he was still holding back. But we don't know that because the character is too new and we haven't seen him face the most dire circumstances yet. When he does, we'll get our answers.
>
> > > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > > >
> > > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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gumbo




> > ...with a character who has been around for barely over a year with, what, two writers?
> >
>
> Actually; he has been around since 2000; near a decade now....for the new guy on the block; the Sentry's not really so new anymore.
>
> Makes me wonder, how long till the new "most powerful hero in the universe" shows up and gets his push?
>
>
>
> > You're bound to see more inconsistency. But I think what's been made clear is that Superman holds back all the time. It's when he doesn't that you see his high showings...and those high showings are a match and more for Sentry's high showings.
> >
> > Now, you could argue that it's possible that even under Sentry's highest showings that maybe he was still holding back. But we don't know that because the character is too new and we haven't seen him face the most dire circumstances yet. When he does, we'll get our answers.
> >

Actually I think in his battle against the Absorbing Man, it was pointed out that he actually hangs around at a much lower energy/power level than he has all out IE he could pump himself up to much higher levels of power than what he generally hangs around at.

Its kind of like say Goku from Dragon Ball Z who can attain higher levels of power via the Super Sayain thing.

Only this isn't a specific move or anything like that....he just hangs out at a much lower level of power than he is fully capable of achieving.

I guess that is a way of explaining any low showing (though really only if you are willing to accept the character would pretty callously endanger other people's lives to some extent.)


> > > > > Based upon the latest showings for both "Men of Steel"...
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it Still the majority consensus that Sentry defeats Supes straight up, or is the Golden Boy losing his shine to some degree, and being seen as being closer to Supes than previously thought?


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gumbo




> > >
> > > > The additional copout when considering Sentrys power is his relationship with the Void and the fact his power goes up & down depending on his mental wellbeing, one day he can own Terrax but next day struggle with the Helicarrier 8\-\)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Strength feats work differently in Marvel though. Busiek even said so in the crossover. Top tier guys are supposed to lift 100 tons yet the hellicarrier had to weight thousands and thousands of tons. Go figure. I think that this feat is comparable to a DC feat. On top of that, I don't see what is the big deal about him gritting his teeth for two small panels. Superman does this all the time when he lifts large things. Unless it says somewhere that it was too heavy for him than I don't think it's true. Still, if Sentry were in the DCU I think he'd be pulling Black Adam type feats.
> >
> > Class 100 is just a classification not a law! Many of Marvels characters regularly lift way more than 100 tonnes.
> >
>
> That's what I said. It's also why I didn't say 100 tons. Class 20 doesn't even mean 20 tons anymore. Spidey is rated class 25 and he only lifts 20 tons.


Interesting; pre-power up its been argued he could lift from 30-fifty tons on his good days.

Wonder if this is another of those non-actualized power ups.
>
> > I never said Sentry couldn't stop the helicarrier it's just a question of stopping time before it impacts with the ground and he was running out of that time. It seems likely that his power was fluctuating at that point as he seemed surprised at his inability to perform better with it... we've discussed this plenty on the board anyway and my feeling is that Sentrys performance there was perfectly equal to what DC top tier are capable of - any one of DCs top guns would have struggled with that carrier in those circumstances.


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