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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...

Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?


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Bootch 

Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,492


Has he done anything to show that he can pull a third of the planet lately? He's just a regular class 100 Marvel character i.e - much weaker than DC's top guys.

> Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
>
> Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Braugi




relative strength off of absolute strength depictions, and our real guage of absolute strength is feats...and there's SO much uncertainty in feats assessments that its tough.

This feat really does little to change the MU hierarchy...he's still been consistently shown as Thor's equal, who in turn has shown himself Hulk's equal.

All it really does is reinforce what I've been saying all along, that high end MU feats, which don't happen as OFTEN as high end DC feats, are every bit as impressive. Thor's midgard Serpent feat is likely planetary in scope, and Gladiator has something in that ballpark as well. Bill vs. Stardust shows the destruction of a planet as well.

> Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
>
> Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?

No, he's probably a peer to Superman and BA, and WW is probably about 80% as strong.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
rc




> Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
>
> Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



> Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
>
> Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Olympian




> Has he done anything to show that he can pull a third of the planet lately? He's just a regular class 100 Marvel character i.e - much weaker than DC's top guys.

hahaha.

Thats the most absurd analisis i have ever seen on this board, about the comparation between companies, including from J.

J is gone. Long live the new King.

>
> > Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
> >
> > Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows XP
Olympian




> Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
>
> Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?

I think he remains all around the same, just with a better record in the end. Hes still stronger than some and will be weaker than others. Since i already pegged him at about Thor/Superman/BA level with any difference being small among them, this doesnt change my view per se, but *cements* it.

This feat alone, or any over the top feat alone, dont make him automatically stronger than everyone else, and the same applies to those other characters. Its not his standart stuff. And its not the standart stuff for any of the others either.

On the other hand, it makes his resume of feats more outhstanding than others who lack examples like this. Once again, cementing his superiority above people, most boards around already pegged him higher than.

Now, bring me a bucket of hot dogs, because Bootch will make this yet more amusing.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows XP
Destroyer




> Has he done anything to show that he can pull a third of the planet lately? He's just a regular class 100 Marvel character i.e - much weaker than DC's top guys.

No he hasnt pulled a third of a planet but he idi hold up the universe for Atlas which is beyond planetary in strength sorry bud.
>
> > Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
> >
> > Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
paolo




> relative strength off of absolute strength depictions, and our real guage of absolute strength is feats...and there's SO much uncertainty in feats assessments that its tough.
>
> This feat really does little to change the MU hierarchy...he's still been consistently shown as Thor's equal, who in turn has shown himself Hulk's equal.
>
> All it really does is reinforce what I've been saying all along, that high end MU feats, which don't happen as OFTEN as high end DC feats, are every bit as impressive. Thor's midgard Serpent feat is likely planetary in scope, and Gladiator has something in that ballpark as well. Bill vs. Stardust shows the destruction of a planet as well.
> as much as i prefer marvel over dc i have always regarded superman to be on average above thor,hercules and hulk because that is way he was written especially years ago and also including crossovers although personally i would prefer if they were all regarded as peers
> > Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
> >
> > Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?
>
> No, he's probably a peer to Superman and BA, and WW is probably about 80% as strong.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Bootch 

Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,492


> hahaha.
>
> Thats the most absurd analisis i have ever seen on this board, about the comparation between companies, including from J.

How is my question and comment absurd? Also: It's a question followed by a comment - not an analysis.
I'm also not sure what you are childishly screaming "shock" and "denial" for.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
Bootch 

Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,492



> No he hasnt pulled a third of a planet but he idi hold up the universe for Atlas which is beyond planetary in strength sorry bud.

Sounds a bit metaphorical to me, but I won't pass judgement until I've read it.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
J





> No, he's probably a peer to Superman and BA, and WW is probably about 80% as strong.

So the fact that she was shown to dominate him in JLA/Avengers means little, I guess??

That's funny.

You are on a serious mission to get people to believe Wonder Woman isn't as powerful as she really is. I wonder why...


Posted with Google Chrome 0.2.149.30 on Windows XP
Braugi




>
so yes, I reject it as out of continuity.

As far as WW's strength level goes, I think its pretty well established that she's definitively below Superman in strength. How far below is debatable, but reasonable estimates can range anywhere from60%-90%...I say 80% looks about right.

Since I consider Hercules to be equal to Superman, Captain Marvel, and BA, all of whom have that same approximate strength advantage over Wonder Woman...well, that means Herc has the advantage.
> > No, he's probably a peer to Superman and BA, and WW is probably about 80% as strong.
>
> So the fact that she was shown to dominate him in JLA/Avengers means little, I guess??
>
> That's funny.
>
> You are on a serious mission to get people to believe Wonder Woman isn't as powerful as she really is. I wonder why...



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Destroyer




>
> > No he hasnt pulled a third of a planet but he idi hold up the universe for Atlas which is beyond planetary in strength sorry bud.
>
> Sounds a bit metaphorical to me, but I won't pass judgement until I've read it.

You are probably right i think marvel only did it to show that their top tier guys are on the same level as DC's. Which is what I have felt all along.


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
J





Well, considering it happened OFF PANEL I think its a poor way to judge the series.

I'm sure you are a proponent of the "Thor beat Doomsday" argument to dismiss the series YET it happened off panel and there is absolutely no way to determine exactly what happened. Also factoring in that version of Doomsday is NOT the original and a much less powerful opponent...

> so yes, I reject it as out of continuity.

Whether you reject it or not is irrelevant. The story IS in continuity. You don't have to like it but you should accept it if you are going to have a rational debate.

Ignore certain stories because you "don't like them" doesn't change the validity of the story itself.

> As far as WW's strength level goes, I think its pretty well established that she's definitively below Superman in strength.

Except it isn't. You keep saying that, but nothing of the sort has EVER been shown or stated.

Holding up Spectre WITH Superman showed her as being less strong?

Moving the Earth with Jonn and Kal showed Diana to be less strong?

Moving the Moon with Kyle & Kal must have also shown her to be less strong...

Superman stating they were equals, Darkseid stating basically the same, being stronger than the DCU Heracles, breaking Supermans ribs, one shotting Superwoman...

> How far below is debatable, but reasonable estimates can range anywhere from60%-90%...I say 80% looks about right.

You'll excuse me if I don't find your argument "reasonable." Considering you are dismissing an entire series because you didn't like it just proves my point...

> Since I consider Hercules to be equal to Superman, Captain Marvel, and BA, all of whom have that same approximate strength advantage over Wonder Woman...well, that means Herc has the advantage.

Except in the FIGHT (and don't you put all of your eggs in that basket!?) proved otherwise.

I'd love to know HOW you came to the conclusion that Hercules is stronger than Diana.



Posted with Google Chrome 0.2.149.30 on Windows XP
ArtTeacher


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,197


> > Has he done anything to show that he can pull a third of the planet lately? He's just a regular class 100 Marvel character i.e - much weaker than DC's top guys.
>
> hahaha.
>
> Thats the most absurd analisis i have ever seen on this board, about the comparation between companies, including from J.
>
> J is gone. Long live the new King.
>
> >
> > > Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
> > >
> > > Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Olympian




>
> > No, he's probably a peer to Superman and BA, and WW is probably about 80% as strong.
>
> So the fact that she was shown to dominate him in JLA/Avengers means little, I guess??

"To dominate" according to J: the ability of having a panel of advantage \:\)

So since he also got one, in a company crossover, where the main trinity figths *all* end up tied...yeah. About time you moved on.

What else she got outside of the crossover to match this?

>
> That's funny.
>
> You are on a serious mission to get people to believe Wonder Woman isn't as powerful as she really is. I wonder why...

We actually usually peg her exactly where she belongs, from the way she is written.

It is you, that rate her higher than she is. Wich is the reason you receive such controversy against your claims.


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows XP
ArtTeacher


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,197


> Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
>
> Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
atrimus


Location: Saint Louis, MO
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,474


well, unlike a lot of the pro-DC crowd (sorry for generalizing; i just don't wanna name names), i've always held that Herc/Hulk/Thor/Glads and Co. are equal to DC heavyhitters. if this new feat is an actuality and not metaphorical, then it is indeed as impressive as they come. i take that back; this would stand as the single-most impressive feat of strength in either DC or Marvel.

however, this is just one single feat, which, imo, should stand only as a reminder to all doubters that Marvel heavyhitters (such as Herc) are just as strong and powerful as DC's. only if we see Herc perform such feats three, four, or five times a year would i say for absolute certainty that he's stronger than Supes and Co.

> Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
>
> Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 2000
Olympian




>
> Well, considering it happened OFF PANEL I think its a poor way to judge the series.
>
> I'm sure you are a proponent of the "Thor beat Doomsday" argument to dismiss the series YET it happened off panel and there is absolutely no way to determine exactly what happened. Also factoring in that version of Doomsday is NOT the original and a much less powerful opponent...

How do we know if whatever Doomsday it appeared was weaker or stronger? The villains that showed up, varied from different eras.

Zounds, Thor owned H/P Doomsday!

>
> > so yes, I reject it as out of continuity.
>
> Whether you reject it or not is irrelevant. The story IS in continuity. You don't have to like it but you should accept it if you are going to have a rational debate.
>
> Ignore certain stories because you "don't like them" doesn't change the validity of the story itself.
>
> > As far as WW's strength level goes, I think its pretty well established that she's definitively below Superman in strength.
>
> Except it isn't. You keep saying that, but nothing of the sort has EVER been shown or stated.
>
> Holding up Spectre WITH Superman showed her as being less strong?
>
> Moving the Earth with Jonn and Kal showed Diana to be less strong?
>
> Moving the Moon with Kyle & Kal must have also shown her to be less strong...
>
> Superman stating they were equals, Darkseid stating basically the same, being stronger than the DCU Heracles, breaking Supermans ribs, one shotting Superwoman...
>
> > How far below is debatable, but reasonable estimates can range anywhere from60%-90%...I say 80% looks about right.
>
> You'll excuse me if I don't find your argument "reasonable." Considering you are dismissing an entire series because you didn't like it just proves my point...
>
> > Since I consider Hercules to be equal to Superman, Captain Marvel, and BA, all of whom have that same approximate strength advantage over Wonder Woman...well, that means Herc has the advantage.
>
> Except in the FIGHT (and don't you put all of your eggs in that basket!?) proved otherwise.
>
> I'd love to know HOW you came to the conclusion that Hercules is stronger than Diana.
>



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows XP
Olympian




> > hahaha.
> >
> > Thats the most absurd analisis i have ever seen on this board, about the comparation between companies, including from J.
>
> How is my question and comment absurd? Also: It's a question followed by a comment - not an analysis.
> I'm also not sure what you are childishly screaming "shock" and "denial" for.

Screaming? I didnt wrote anything in CAPS, good sir. I merely adressed a fact that everyone already knows.

And the fact alone you cant even see where you are in denial, speaks for itself ;\)


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows XP
Olympian




> well, unlike a lot of the pro-DC crowd (sorry for generalizing; i just don't wanna name names), i've always held that Herc/Hulk/Thor/Glads and Co. are equal to DC heavyhitters. if this new feat is an actuality and not metaphorical, then it is indeed as impressive as they come. i take that back; this would stand as the single-most impressive feat of strength in either DC or Marvel.
>
> however, this is just one single feat, which, imo, should stand only as a reminder to all doubters that Marvel heavyhitters (such as Herc) are just as strong and powerful as DC's. only if we see Herc perform such feats three, four, or five times a year would i say for absolute certainty that he's stronger than Supes and Co.

..is exactly what i feel about the issue.

Ladies and Gents, allow me to introduce ya all:Common sense!

>
> > Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
> >
> > Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows XP
VaderTime




> Has he done anything to show that he can pull a third of the planet lately? He's just a regular class 100 Marvel character i.e - much weaker than DC's top guys.
>
> > Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
> >
> > Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows XP
autochron




Seems like he recently did something spectacular to warrant this. What was it?

> Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
>
> Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows Vista
autochron




OK I'm all for Herc being shown as supremely strong but... holding up the Universe? Now Atlas holding up the Universe was all fair and good for those living in the pre-scientific knowledge BC-era but isn't the Marvel Universe supposed to be "somewhat" plausible in scope? Isn't holding up the Universe a bit metaphorical? What really happened? Perhaps it was an "aleph" Universe, as in a microcosm that exists on some sort of membrane level to our Universe? An image of this Universe as it were...

> > Has he done anything to show that he can pull a third of the planet lately? He's just a regular class 100 Marvel character i.e - much weaker than DC's top guys.
>
> No he hasnt pulled a third of a planet but he idi hold up the universe for Atlas which is beyond planetary in strength sorry bud.
> >
> > > Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
> > >
> > > Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows Vista
Primetime.




>
> > No, he's probably a peer to Superman and BA, and WW is probably about 80% as strong.
>
> So the fact that she was shown to dominate him in JLA/Avengers means little, I guess??

She was not shown to "dominate" him. They went back and forth with her seemingly having at most, a moderate advantage, with a good argument for it being a stalemate. Plus, few would deny that she has a speed and quickness advantage over Herc, which can play as much or more of a role in winning a fight than strength does. Captain America seemed to be dominating Spidey hand to hand, yet no one believes that Cap is stronger than Spidey.

>
> That's funny.
>
> You are on a serious mission to get people to believe Wonder Woman isn't as powerful as she really is. I wonder why...



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Olympian




> OK I'm all for Herc being shown as supremely strong but... holding up the Universe? Now Atlas holding up the Universe was all fair and good for those living in the pre-scientific knowledge BC-era but isn't the Marvel Universe supposed to be "somewhat" plausible in scope? Isn't holding up the Universe a bit metaphorical? What really happened? Perhaps it was an "aleph" Universe, as in a microcosm that exists on some sort of membrane level to our Universe? An image of this Universe as it were...

Hum?

The feat was set on an event centuries past, showed in a Flashback. Mind you, according to a future solicit and Hercules, Atlas is stil around, likely still doing it.


>
> > > Has he done anything to show that he can pull a third of the planet lately? He's just a regular class 100 Marvel character i.e - much weaker than DC's top guys.
> >
> > No he hasnt pulled a third of a planet but he idi hold up the universe for Atlas which is beyond planetary in strength sorry bud.
> > >
> > > > Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
> > > >
> > > > Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows XP
Olympian




> Seems like he recently did something spectacular to warrant this. What was it?


http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=99438_3_122_837lo.jpg
http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=99440_5_122_987lo.jpg
http://img143.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=99441_8_122_740lo.jpg

or

http://www.comicboards.com/app/show.php?rpy=comicbattles-2008091822064405

>
> > Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
> >
> > Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.0.1 on Windows XP
J





> She was not shown to "dominate" him. They went back and forth with her seemingly having at most, a moderate advantage, with a good argument for it being a stalemate. Plus, few would deny that she has a speed and quickness advantage over Herc, which can play as much or more of a role in winning a fight than strength does. Captain America seemed to be dominating Spidey hand to hand, yet no one believes that Cap is stronger than Spidey.

Please.

He asks her to fight then she punches him -- he returns the punch and she pummels him and he goes through an Asgardian stone wall. THEN she puts him in a choke hold that he can't get out of -- struggling.

So it's a stalemate when one character has another in a choke hold that they can't break?


> >
> > That's funny.
> >
> > You are on a serious mission to get people to believe Wonder Woman isn't as powerful as she really is. I wonder why...



Posted with Google Chrome 0.2.149.30 on Windows XP
J




> Based upon what is being said/shown now about Herc...
>
> Is He to be considered stronger than likes of Supes/WW/BA etc now?

I'm really not sure how this is considered a "feat."

For one it was a story Hercules was telling Namora to brag about himself... we do know it was a labor but nothing says its a strength feat -- being able to lift something is not the same as supporting weight.

Also, there is a metaphysical connotation to the feat -- he isn't holding up the sky he is simply standing in the way of the two forms meeting.

People are getting WAY built up about this...




Posted with Google Chrome 0.2.149.30 on Windows XP
Primetime.




>
> > She was not shown to "dominate" him. They went back and forth with her seemingly having at most, a moderate advantage, with a good argument for it being a stalemate. Plus, few would deny that she has a speed and quickness advantage over Herc, which can play as much or more of a role in winning a fight than strength does. Captain America seemed to be dominating Spidey hand to hand, yet no one believes that Cap is stronger than Spidey.
>
> Please.
>
> He asks her to fight then she punches him -- he returns the punch and she pummels him and he goes through an Asgardian stone wall. THEN she puts him in a choke hold that he can't get out of -- struggling.
>
> So it's a stalemate when one character has another in a choke hold that they can't break?

You left off the full nelson that she ends up in afterwards. So again, it's a back and forth. And you left out that she punched him while he was in the middle of explaining his relationship with Hypolyta. That's a sucker punch. And tell me why you refer to her second punch as a "pummel"?
>
>
> > >
> > > That's funny.
> > >
> > > You are on a serious mission to get people to believe Wonder Woman isn't as powerful as she really is. I wonder why...



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
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