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Defensor




Seems Red Hulk beat Thor in solo combat, then beat Hulk in solo combat, one-punch KO'd Uatu the Watcher, fought She-Hulk and other hotties, defeated a pack of Wendigo's, all in one day it seems.

Thor fought Superman solo and barely lost. Supes was tanked afterwards and couldn't even defend himself against a buncha Avengers.

Since Red Hulk did so much in one day, and Supes couldn't even do HALF as much in defeating Thor then getting pounded on by the Avengers, I think it's safe to say:

Red Hulk > Superman & Wonder Woman, right?




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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



> Seems Red Hulk beat Thor in solo combat, then beat Hulk in solo combat, one-punch KO'd Uatu the Watcher, fought She-Hulk and other hotties, defeated a pack of Wendigo's, all in one day it seems.
>
*He beat Thor in Round 1!

*Flooring a Watcher is not a big deal.

*Wendigos can vary wildly between incarnations

> Thor fought Superman solo and barely lost. Supes was tanked afterwards and couldn't even defend himself against a buncha Avengers.
>
Errr, Would you care to name those Avengers? \:P

> Since Red Hulk did so much in one day, and Supes couldn't even do HALF as much in defeating Thor then getting pounded on by the Avengers, I think it's safe to say:
>
> Red Hulk > Superman & Wonder Woman, right?
>
Wrong. See their performance against Konvikt.

Nuff Said.



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Thorion


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 6,211



> Seems Red Hulk beat Thor in solo combat, then beat Hulk in solo combat, one-punch KO'd Uatu the Watcher, fought She-Hulk and other hotties, defeated a pack of Wendigo's, all in one day it seems.
>
> Thor fought Superman solo and barely lost.
(Remember that (Thor) had mentioned that in the (DC) universe he was having problems controling the weather, why I don't understand b/c in other universes he's never had this problem)
Supes was tanked afterwards and couldn't even defend himself against a buncha Avengers.
(Dude he went toe to toe with (Thor), wouldn't you LOL)!
>
> Since Red Hulk did so much in one day, and Supes couldn't even do HALF as much in defeating Thor then getting pounded on by the Avengers, I think it's safe to say:
>
> Red Hulk > Superman & Wonder Woman, right?
>
You can say that (Lol)!

>





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Defensor




>
> > Seems Red Hulk beat Thor in solo combat, then beat Hulk in solo combat, one-punch KO'd Uatu the Watcher, fought She-Hulk and other hotties, defeated a pack of Wendigo's, all in one day it seems.
> >
> *He beat Thor in Round 1!
>
> *Flooring a Watcher is not a big deal.
>
> *Wendigos can vary wildly between incarnations
>
> > Thor fought Superman solo and barely lost. Supes was tanked afterwards and couldn't even defend himself against a buncha Avengers.
> >
> Errr, Would you care to name those Avengers? \:P
Finally both teams find themselves in the Savage Land of the Avengers Universe. Above them the Cosmic Cube hovers & both teams stare at it in a moment of hestitation before Scarlet Witch calls her comrades to arms & the battle royal begins. While Hercules takes on Wonder Woman, Green Lantern fights Photon. Thor & Superman wage a vicious battle between each other. Superman unleashes his heat vision, which injures the Thunder God but Thor manages to summon enough strength to bring his hammer down on the Man of Steel. To everyone's surprise, mainly Thor's, Superman catches the Hammer & lands a vicious roundhouse punch, knocking Thor out. Thor's comrades see this and the strongest of their number pile on Superman.

> > Since Red Hulk did so much in one day, and Supes couldn't even do HALF as much in defeating Thor then getting pounded on by the Avengers, I think it's safe to say:
> >
> > Red Hulk > Superman & Wonder Woman, right?
> >
> Wrong. See their performance against Konvikt.

Actually, if it wasn't for Batman's going to the ship and discovering what it would take to take care of Konvikt, it really wasn't looking good for Wonder Woman and Superman up till that point.

Wonder Woman was left to basically fight a retreating battle, knowing she couldn't take him, and even Supes was leary leaving her on her own. But she's smart, she fought a retreating battle to keep him busy, not to defeat him. She knew she couldn't on her own, Supes knew it too, but she still sent him off to see what Batman wanted, figuring Batman had the solution that both Supes/WW didn't have at that point.



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Destroyer




>
> > Seems Red Hulk beat Thor in solo combat, then beat Hulk in solo combat, one-punch KO'd Uatu the Watcher, fought She-Hulk and other hotties, defeated a pack of Wendigo's, all in one day it seems.
> >
> *He beat Thor in Round 1!
>
> *Flooring a Watcher is not a big deal.
>
> *Wendigos can vary wildly between incarnations
>
> > Thor fought Superman solo and barely lost. Supes was tanked afterwards and couldn't even defend himself against a buncha Avengers.
> >
> Errr, Would you care to name those Avengers? \:P
>
> > Since Red Hulk did so much in one day, and Supes couldn't even do HALF as much in defeating Thor then getting pounded on by the Avengers, I think it's safe to say:
> >
> > Red Hulk > Superman & Wonder Woman, right?
> >
> Wrong. See their performance against Konvikt.
>
> Nuff Said.
> Are you kidding they didn't do all that well against Konvickt they had to gas him to put him down. I am not saying Red Hulk is above Konvickt cause after reading issue 6 I honestly don't believe he is but Superman and WW starting doing better against him towards the end of the fight but never were able to put him down by physcial means.




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Olympian




> Seems Red Hulk beat Thor in solo combat, then beat Hulk in solo combat, one-punch KO'd Uatu the Watcher, fought She-Hulk and other hotties, defeated a pack of Wendigo's, all in one day it seems.
>
> Thor fought Superman solo and barely lost. Supes was tanked afterwards and couldn't even defend himself against a buncha Avengers.
>
> Since Red Hulk did so much in one day, and Supes couldn't even do HALF as much in defeating Thor then getting pounded on by the Avengers, I think it's safe to say:
>
> Red Hulk > Superman & Wonder Woman, right?
>
>



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



> >
> > > Seems Red Hulk beat Thor in solo combat, then beat Hulk in solo combat, one-punch KO'd Uatu the Watcher, fought She-Hulk and other hotties, defeated a pack of Wendigo's, all in one day it seems.
> > >
> > *He beat Thor in Round 1!
> >
> > *Flooring a Watcher is not a big deal.
> >
> > *Wendigos can vary wildly between incarnations
> >
> > > Thor fought Superman solo and barely lost. Supes was tanked afterwards and couldn't even defend himself against a buncha Avengers.
> > >
> > Errr, Would you care to name those Avengers? \:P
> Finally both teams find themselves in the Savage Land of the Avengers Universe. Above them the Cosmic Cube hovers & both teams stare at it in a moment of hestitation before Scarlet Witch calls her comrades to arms & the battle royal begins. While Hercules takes on Wonder Woman, Green Lantern fights Photon. Thor & Superman wage a vicious battle between each other. Superman unleashes his heat vision, which injures the Thunder God but Thor manages to summon enough strength to bring his hammer down on the Man of Steel. To everyone's surprise, mainly Thor's, Superman catches the Hammer & lands a vicious roundhouse punch, knocking Thor out. Thor's comrades see this and the strongest of their number pile on Superman.
>
Chiefly Hercules with his mace, She-Hulk, Iron Man, The Vision & Wonderman. It takes that lot giving a no holds barred beating to put him down & out! And That's After Thor had given his all...

> > > Since Red Hulk did so much in one day, and Supes couldn't even do HALF as much in defeating Thor then getting pounded on by the Avengers, I think it's safe to say:
> > >
> > > Red Hulk > Superman & Wonder Woman, right?
> > >
> > Wrong. See their performance against Konvikt.
>
> Actually, if it wasn't for Batman's going to the ship and discovering what it would take to take care of Konvikt, it really wasn't looking good for Wonder Woman and Superman up till that point.
>
Actually that is not true, Superman was letting loose on the powered up Konvikt and was looking well on his way to getting the KO. Batmans summoning distracts him from that job and he opts for the tech Batman has discovered as the logical and easier way of shutting Konvikt down.

> Wonder Woman was left to basically fight a retreating battle, knowing she couldn't take him, and even Supes was leary leaving her on her own. But she's smart, she fought a retreating battle to keep him busy, not to defeat him. She knew she couldn't on her own, Supes knew it too, but she still sent him off to see what Batman wanted, figuring Batman had the solution that both Supes/WW didn't have at that point.
>

Sure?





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Defensor




>
> > >
> > > > Seems Red Hulk beat Thor in solo combat, then beat Hulk in solo combat, one-punch KO'd Uatu the Watcher, fought She-Hulk and other hotties, defeated a pack of Wendigo's, all in one day it seems.
> > > >
> > > *He beat Thor in Round 1!
> > >
> > > *Flooring a Watcher is not a big deal.
> > >
> > > *Wendigos can vary wildly between incarnations
> > >
> > > > Thor fought Superman solo and barely lost. Supes was tanked afterwards and couldn't even defend himself against a buncha Avengers.
> > > >
> > > Errr, Would you care to name those Avengers? \:P
> > Finally both teams find themselves in the Savage Land of the Avengers Universe. Above them the Cosmic Cube hovers & both teams stare at it in a moment of hestitation before Scarlet Witch calls her comrades to arms & the battle royal begins. While Hercules takes on Wonder Woman, Green Lantern fights Photon. Thor & Superman wage a vicious battle between each other. Superman unleashes his heat vision, which injures the Thunder God but Thor manages to summon enough strength to bring his hammer down on the Man of Steel. To everyone's surprise, mainly Thor's, Superman catches the Hammer & lands a vicious roundhouse punch, knocking Thor out. Thor's comrades see this and the strongest of their number pile on Superman.
> >
> Chiefly Hercules with his mace, She-Hulk, Iron Man, The Vision & Wonderman. It takes that lot giving a no holds barred beating to put him down & out! And That's After Thor had given his all...
After a dumbed-down Thor had given his all. DC wouldn't allow their Golden child to be defeated, it was one of the concessions MU made so that the crossover could happen. Supes wouldn't be defeated in one on one battle, but it would be ok if he'd worn himself out and then be swarmed under by a bunch of angry MU'ites afterwards. LOL. Big difference. Maybe if they'd let FAN's decide the outcome, prolly woulda been different, the world may never know though, LOL.


> > Since Red Hulk did so much in one day, and Supes couldn't even do HALF as much in defeating Thor then getting pounded on by the Avengers, I think it's safe to say:
> > > >
> > > > Red Hulk > Superman & Wonder Woman, right?
> > > >
> > > Wrong. See their performance against Konvikt.
> >
> > Actually, if it wasn't for Batman's going to the ship and discovering what it would take to take care of Konvikt, it really wasn't looking good for Wonder Woman and Superman up till that point.
> >
> Actually that is not true, Superman was letting loose on the powered up Konvikt and was looking well on his way to getting the KO. Batmans summoning distracts him from that job and he opts for the tech Batman has discovered as the logical and easier way of shutting Konvikt down.
>
> > Wonder Woman was left to basically fight a retreating battle, knowing she couldn't take him, and even Supes was leary leaving her on her own. But she's smart, she fought a retreating battle to keep him busy, not to defeat him. She knew she couldn't on her own, Supes knew it too, but she still sent him off to see what Batman wanted, figuring Batman had the solution that both Supes/WW didn't have at that point.
> >
>
> Sure?
>
>

>



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



> > Chiefly Hercules with his mace, She-Hulk, Iron Man, The Vision & Wonderman. It takes that lot giving a no holds barred beating to put him down & out! And That's After Thor had given his all...
> After a dumbed-down Thor had given his all. DC wouldn't allow their Golden child to be defeated, it was one of the concessions MU made so that the crossover could happen. Supes wouldn't be defeated in one on one battle, but it would be ok if he'd worn himself out and then be swarmed under by a bunch of angry MU'ites afterwards. LOL. Big difference. Maybe if they'd let FAN's decide the outcome, prolly woulda been different, the world may never know though, LOL.
>


....Can you show me one shred of proof that DC "wouldn't allow their Golden child to be defeated"?
I keep hearing this bandied about yet i can recall no such statement, inference or politiking going on in the background of JLAvengers....

There are at least two sets of editors involved here and both have to okay a story. Somehow if a Marvel editor was faced with the prospect of a Thor/Superman fight I don't think he'd say Thor should definitly win. He never looks dominant over their own Superman Clones so why should he look like beating the real McCoy?!







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Defensor




>
> > > Chiefly Hercules with his mace, She-Hulk, Iron Man, The Vision & Wonderman. It takes that lot giving a no holds barred beating to put him down & out! And That's After Thor had given his all...
> > After a dumbed-down Thor had given his all. DC wouldn't allow their Golden child to be defeated, it was one of the concessions MU made so that the crossover could happen. Supes wouldn't be defeated in one on one battle, but it would be ok if he'd worn himself out and then be swarmed under by a bunch of angry MU'ites afterwards. LOL. Big difference. Maybe if they'd let FAN's decide the outcome, prolly woulda been different, the world may never know though, LOL.
> >
>
>
> ....Can you show me one shred of proof that DC "wouldn't allow their Golden child to be defeated"?
> I keep hearing this bandied about yet i can recall no such statement, inference or politiking going on in the background of JLAvengers....
>
> There are at least two sets of editors involved here and both have to okay a story. Somehow if a Marvel editor was faced with the prospect of a Thor/Superman fight I don't think he'd say Thor should definitly win. He never looks dominant over their own Superman Clones so why should he look like beating the real McCoy?!

Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below. Indeed, Thor's got a MAGNIFICENT track record against the likes of Gladiator and Hyperion, two of the most powerful Superman clones in Marvel. Take a look:

Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.

In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!

Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:

Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).

To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit). What this mean is:
that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).

Curious? Has even SUPERMAN destroyed a planet with his own power before? Let alone TWICE like I've shown Thor doing above? And you question if Thor's more powerful than Superman's Marvel-equivalent clones are when Thor's already got more impressive high end feats than even Superman?


>

>
>
>



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




> Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
> Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below.
>
See his fights with Gladiator, Nefaria, Hyperion and even Wonderman over the years. The fact is he does have problems with these opponents, yes he could shot them down real quick if he used the Hammers more exotic abilities but that is something he almost never does and something that has mixed results when he has - see Nefaria neutralising a portal he'd summoned.

> Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.
>
You left out the fact that Gladiator had been stunned by Thor summoning the passing Living Lightning and delivering a particularly ruthless hammershot followed by brutal beating.
Gladiator has had such varied showings it's hard to compare his average to what Superman is regularly seen doing. Two very different levels of Competence.

> In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!
>
As you may know Gladiator beat Thor in Thor 34, needed some assistance from Tarene and the Enchantress to keep in the game and yet previously had drawn against Thor if a Fantastic Four issue.
You point out Hyperion there yet he actually proved equal to Gladiator in a direct test of Strength! Hyperion was logged as class 85 or so roughly yet has none of the feats or showings of even Gladiator... so work it out.

> Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:
>
Based on his matching Hyperion in a test of strength I chalk down such excessive feats to the TK portion of his power, basically he doesn't use just strength to do these feats he's using force of mind such as when he lifted the Baxter Building or was caught inside the Invisible Girls forcefield.

> Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).
>
Most of those are from the 60s. While it's fair to say his powers wander about I have seen nothing on the same scale as a Superman.

> To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit).
That was with his belt of Strength on and from a position high over the planet.

> What this mean is:
> that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).
>
Nobody has EVER said Thor/mjolnir isn't in principle more powerful than Superman and co... what they point out is that in a combat situation with a foe of a physical prescence he will not use them.
Call is fair play, call it lowering himself, whatever. He does not fight a foe of equal stature by unloading the Hammers fuller power.

>
>
> >

> >
> >
> >



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Master




There battle are always pertty even with Glads acually having edge...

M

> >
> > > > Chiefly Hercules with his mace, She-Hulk, Iron Man, The Vision & Wonderman. It takes that lot giving a no holds barred beating to put him down & out! And That's After Thor had given his all...
> > > After a dumbed-down Thor had given his all. DC wouldn't allow their Golden child to be defeated, it was one of the concessions MU made so that the crossover could happen. Supes wouldn't be defeated in one on one battle, but it would be ok if he'd worn himself out and then be swarmed under by a bunch of angry MU'ites afterwards. LOL. Big difference. Maybe if they'd let FAN's decide the outcome, prolly woulda been different, the world may never know though, LOL.
> > >
> >
> >
> > ....Can you show me one shred of proof that DC "wouldn't allow their Golden child to be defeated"?
> > I keep hearing this bandied about yet i can recall no such statement, inference or politiking going on in the background of JLAvengers....
> >
> > There are at least two sets of editors involved here and both have to okay a story. Somehow if a Marvel editor was faced with the prospect of a Thor/Superman fight I don't think he'd say Thor should definitly win. He never looks dominant over their own Superman Clones so why should he look like beating the real McCoy?!
>
> Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
> Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below. Indeed, Thor's got a MAGNIFICENT track record against the likes of Gladiator and Hyperion, two of the most powerful Superman clones in Marvel. Take a look:
>
> Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.
>
> In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!
>
> Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:
>
> Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).
>
> To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit). What this mean is:
> that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).
>
> Curious? Has even SUPERMAN destroyed a planet with his own power before? Let alone TWICE like I've shown Thor doing above? And you question if Thor's more powerful than Superman's Marvel-equivalent clones are when Thor's already got more impressive high end feats than even Superman?
>
>
> >

> >
> >
> >




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Defensor




>
>
> > Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
> > Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below.
> >
> See his fights with Gladiator, Nefaria, Hyperion and even Wonderman over the years. The fact is he does have problems with these opponents, yes he could shot them down real quick if he used the Hammers more exotic abilities but that is something he almost never does and something that has mixed results when he has - see Nefaria neutralising a portal he'd summoned.
>
> > Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.
> >
> You left out the fact that Gladiator had been stunned by Thor summoning the passing Living Lightning and delivering a particularly ruthless hammershot followed by brutal beating.
> Gladiator has had such varied showings it's hard to compare his average to what Superman is regularly seen doing. Two very different levels of Competence.
>
> > In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!
> >
> As you may know Gladiator beat Thor in Thor 34, needed some assistance from Tarene and the Enchantress to keep in the game and yet previously had drawn against Thor if a Fantastic Four issue.
> You point out Hyperion there yet he actually proved equal to Gladiator in a direct test of Strength! Hyperion was logged as class 85 or so roughly yet has none of the feats or showings of even Gladiator... so work it out.
>
> > Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:
> >
> Based on his matching Hyperion in a test of strength I chalk down such excessive feats to the TK portion of his power, basically he doesn't use just strength to do these feats he's using force of mind such as when he lifted the Baxter Building or was caught inside the Invisible Girls forcefield.
>
> > Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).
> >
> Most of those are from the 60s. While it's fair to say his powers wander about I have seen nothing on the same scale as a Superman.
>
> > To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit).
> That was with his belt of Strength on and from a position high over the planet.
>
> > What this mean is:
> > that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).
> >
> Nobody has EVER said Thor/mjolnir isn't in principle more powerful than Superman and co... what they point out is that in a combat situation with a foe of a physical prescence he will not use them.
> Call is fair play, call it lowering himself, whatever. He does not fight a foe of equal stature by unloading the Hammers fuller power.
>
Thor simply holds back against his opponent because he doesn't want to take a life. (See Thor#305). However, when he decides to end someone’s existence he could do it with just a single blow. (See Thor #374), where he killed the Super-Strong Mutant Block-Buster with just a single blow from Mjolnir, and not even a really awesome blow at that.

He holds back because he's honorable, unlike evil villains who really don't care if they slay humans by the scores, hundreds, thousands, millions to achieve their devious ends.

And so Thor is considered lame and impotent for being good and showing the kind of restraint he's heroic for?

He certainly knows how to "up his game" when the situation calls for it:

He's the best warrior in Asgard. The Absorbing Man, when he acquired Thor's powers and could not defeat him, he said: "It ain't fair!!!" "What's good my strength, my power, if I can't land a blow?", "I didn't know it was gonna be like this!!!" The very same thing happened to Warlock, to the Juggernaut (when Thor took his invulnerable force field), Mr. Hyde (Thor#106), also, Pluto and Ares (the god of war) when Thor really cut loose in Blood and Thunder.

In addition, Thor outclassed in the strength department, defeated Ares who tripled his strength (Thor #223), and had Ulik on the ropes irrespective of the fact that Ulik augmented his strength several times over, defeated the Android Zotarr (Thor-#238), but the most impressive victory of all was when Thor defeated Grog the God Crusher without his powers, super-strength, and being a mortal (Thor-#397).

And that's just a FEW times I could list Thor "upping his game" when he feels the need to, but usually he only does so when humans aren't around and cannot be harmed by him so doing. BECAUSE he's honorable.

You wonder about Thor's physical might? How many people do you know that can break Adamantium? Thor, with his enormous physical strength, broke through wrap-around cables made of Adamantium (Thor-#309).

Have we even seen mighty Hulk, he who is "strongest there is", do that?

Thor with his physical strength alone closed a fissure that HE created in the Planets crust, and then he proceeded to seal Loki in it under millions of Tons of Earth with the might of his physical might. (Avengers West Coast-#55; I). Now, that's something we saw a VERY amped up WWHulk duplicate on another planet. But hey, I guess Thor's a wimp since regular Hulk's supposed to be strongest there is and yet we've not seen regular Hulk do that, only when he was considerably amped by the WWHulk arc.

How about when Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent which girds the entire Earth and holds the Ocean in place. (Thor #272).

Lets not forget about his speed:
Thor’s hammer provides the ability for Thor to fly at such speed that he can literally become invisible (JIM-#94), and can perform complicated maneuvers like performing a Pinwheel around a Flying Trans-Atlantic Jet (JIM-#107). Thor's top flying speed has been clocked at THREE TIMES the speed of LIGHT (Thor #185). Superman, by comparison, is on the record at staying about the speed of light (3 times less faster than Thor can with Mjolnir). And you say Thor's got issues hanging with Superman's Marvel clones? When Thor is embarrassingly out-speeding even Superman by a factor of 3x Lightspeed?

Also, Thor can use the power of the storm at a moment’s notice. For instance, Thor used a spear of wind, or an indescribable powerful tornado, that he literally pushed against Surtur, that cause Surtur to say: "NEVER HAVE I FELT SUCH FORCE!" And, in that same issue, Thor used the power of the Storm to divert an Asteroid from it’s course and hurl it against Surtur(Thor #177). The same Surtur that even Odin with the Odin-Force can't seem to ever overcome completely, yet Thor has single handedly WITH the Odin-Force stopped Ragnarok for good, a feat even his dad Odin couldn't accomplish.






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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



> Thor simply holds back against his opponent because he doesn't want to take a life. (See Thor#305). However, when he decides to end someone’s existence he could do it with just a single blow. (See Thor #374), where he killed the Super-Strong Mutant Block-Buster with just a single blow from Mjolnir, and not even a really awesome blow at that.
>
> He holds back because he's honorable, unlike evil villains who really don't care if they slay humans by the scores, hundreds, thousands, millions to achieve their devious ends.
>
And i agree with that completely, i've said it myself - But at some point you have to accept that even with that self-limitation going on he will meet such powerful opponents while on earth that holding back is not a requirement. Hyperion is a good example - in their 2nd encounter Thor floors him with a hammer shot and tells him that last time he pulled his shot as he didn't know what he could survive. Now it's fair to say that if Thor decides to kill with a hammer shot he'd probobly do it with most opponents!
But move it to the Superman example and recall Thor already met Superman in Metropolis earlier on and must have got a pretty good assesment of his ability right there. Further looking at both character they are good decent people who will meet an opponent on equal terms, if Superman rolled out superspeed Thor would roll out a hammer stunt to try and equalise, if Thor tried a Hammer stunt Superman would use a speedblitz and so on... neither will ever fight to kill as a rule however so it is still perfectly possible to see a Thor going allout on an opponent but draw the line at killing.
By the end of that fight Thor is clearly a mess, he's exhausted, he's battered and he's putting his all into that one last swing. He had to have some crystal clear idea at that point of just how powerful superman was and what it would take to finish him, yet he still underestimated him completely!





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Defensor




my examples above show several instances where in fact, Thor is Superman's superior in several things.

And lets face it, Thor's got WAY less weaknesses than Superman does. Just what is out there that specifically weakens Asgardians? Nothing. Superman's weakened by Magic, which Thor isn't. Superman's weakened by Kryptonite, yet there isn't some mineral out there we're aware of that's universally repugnant to Asgardians. Superman's weakened by Red Sun energy, yet Thor's capable of wielding ANY powersource through Mjolnir.

I've directed several examples above in this thread, all to show that Thor isn't some lackey to Superman, cause you said he can't even defeat the Superman clones, yet I can show Superman's abilities in several instances fall FAR below Thor's. I've even shown Thor out-classing Superman in strength feats, speed feats, the list goes on.

The sheer fact of the matter is that: Superman and Thor are close, but Thor's simply above Superman. With strength, speed, and other feats. Even Superman's highest end feats ahve been surpassed by Thor.

Thor is to Marvel what Superman is to DC. The golden child.

I'll call them equal for arguments sake, but really, I've more than amply proven Thor's highest feats and abilities outstrip Superman's.




Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
smallfry




> >
> >
> > > Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
> > > Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below.
> > >
> > See his fights with Gladiator, Nefaria, Hyperion and even Wonderman over the years. The fact is he does have problems with these opponents, yes he could shot them down real quick if he used the Hammers more exotic abilities but that is something he almost never does and something that has mixed results when he has - see Nefaria neutralising a portal he'd summoned.
> >
> > > Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.
> > >
> > You left out the fact that Gladiator had been stunned by Thor summoning the passing Living Lightning and delivering a particularly ruthless hammershot followed by brutal beating.
> > Gladiator has had such varied showings it's hard to compare his average to what Superman is regularly seen doing. Two very different levels of Competence.
> >
> > > In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!
> > >
> > As you may know Gladiator beat Thor in Thor 34, needed some assistance from Tarene and the Enchantress to keep in the game and yet previously had drawn against Thor if a Fantastic Four issue.
> > You point out Hyperion there yet he actually proved equal to Gladiator in a direct test of Strength! Hyperion was logged as class 85 or so roughly yet has none of the feats or showings of even Gladiator... so work it out.
> >
> > > Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:
> > >
> > Based on his matching Hyperion in a test of strength I chalk down such excessive feats to the TK portion of his power, basically he doesn't use just strength to do these feats he's using force of mind such as when he lifted the Baxter Building or was caught inside the Invisible Girls forcefield.
> >
> > > Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).
> > >
> > Most of those are from the 60s. While it's fair to say his powers wander about I have seen nothing on the same scale as a Superman.
> >
> > > To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit).
> > That was with his belt of Strength on and from a position high over the planet.
> >
> > > What this mean is:
> > > that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).
> > >
> > Nobody has EVER said Thor/mjolnir isn't in principle more powerful than Superman and co... what they point out is that in a combat situation with a foe of a physical prescence he will not use them.
> > Call is fair play, call it lowering himself, whatever. He does not fight a foe of equal stature by unloading the Hammers fuller power.
> >
> Thor simply holds back against his opponent because he doesn't want to take a life. (See Thor#305). However, when he decides to end someone’s existence he could do it with just a single blow. (See Thor #374), where he killed the Super-Strong Mutant Block-Buster with just a single blow from Mjolnir, and not even a really awesome blow at that.
>
> He holds back because he's honorable, unlike evil villains who really don't care if they slay humans by the scores, hundreds, thousands, millions to achieve their devious ends.
>
> And so Thor is considered lame and impotent for being good and showing the kind of restraint he's heroic for?
>
> He certainly knows how to "up his game" when the situation calls for it:
>
> He's the best warrior in Asgard. The Absorbing Man, when he acquired Thor's powers and could not defeat him, he said: "It ain't fair!!!" "What's good my strength, my power, if I can't land a blow?", "I didn't know it was gonna be like this!!!" The very same thing happened to Warlock, to the Juggernaut (when Thor took his invulnerable force field), Mr. Hyde (Thor#106), also, Pluto and Ares (the god of war) when Thor really cut loose in Blood and Thunder.
>
> In addition, Thor outclassed in the strength department, defeated Ares who tripled his strength (Thor #223), and had Ulik on the ropes irrespective of the fact that Ulik augmented his strength several times over, defeated the Android Zotarr (Thor-#238), but the most impressive victory of all was when Thor defeated Grog the God Crusher without his powers, super-strength, and being a mortal (Thor-#397).
>
> And that's just a FEW times I could list Thor "upping his game" when he feels the need to, but usually he only does so when humans aren't around and cannot be harmed by him so doing. BECAUSE he's honorable.
>
> You wonder about Thor's physical might? How many people do you know that can break Adamantium? Thor, with his enormous physical strength, broke through wrap-around cables made of Adamantium (Thor-#309).
>
> Have we even seen mighty Hulk, he who is "strongest there is", do that?
If Thor can, Hulk certainly can
>
> Thor with his physical strength alone closed a fissure that HE created in the Planets crust, and then he proceeded to seal Loki in it under millions of Tons of Earth with the might of his physical might. (Avengers West Coast-#55; I). Now, that's something we saw a VERY amped up WWHulk duplicate on another planet. But hey, I guess Thor's a wimp since regular Hulk's supposed to be strongest there is and yet we've not seen regular Hulk do that, only when he was considerably amped by the WWHulk arc.
"Regular" Hulk and "Amped up" Hulk are the SAME PERSON!! HULK! We don't call Thor (in Avengers WC) VERY amped up Thor, do we? No. All versions of Hulk show various aspects of Hulk's potential, but they are all Hulk. All variations of Hulk should be considered one and the same. All Hulk feats are Hulk feats. Has Thor ever taken on the entire Marvel Universe? Withstood a scream from Black Bolt? Torn apart by an adamantium barrage? neh- Still, all that being said, Thor is still quite a bit tougher than Stuporman. It has always been company policy when doing crossovers that DC won't allow Superman to be defeated in a one on one. That was clearly the case in JLAvengers... Funny how Supes never faced Hulk in that one tho.
>
> How about when Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent which girds the entire Earth and holds the Ocean in place. (Thor #272).
>
> Lets not forget about his speed:
> Thor’s hammer provides the ability for Thor to fly at such speed that he can literally become invisible (JIM-#94), and can perform complicated maneuvers like performing a Pinwheel around a Flying Trans-Atlantic Jet (JIM-#107). Thor's top flying speed has been clocked at THREE TIMES the speed of LIGHT (Thor #185). Superman, by comparison, is on the record at staying about the speed of light (3 times less faster than Thor can with Mjolnir). And you say Thor's got issues hanging with Superman's Marvel clones? When Thor is embarrassingly out-speeding even Superman by a factor of 3x Lightspeed?
>
> Also, Thor can use the power of the storm at a moment’s notice. For instance, Thor used a spear of wind, or an indescribable powerful tornado, that he literally pushed against Surtur, that cause Surtur to say: "NEVER HAVE I FELT SUCH FORCE!" And, in that same issue, Thor used the power of the Storm to divert an Asteroid from it’s course and hurl it against Surtur(Thor #177). The same Surtur that even Odin with the Odin-Force can't seem to ever overcome completely, yet Thor has single handedly WITH the Odin-Force stopped Ragnarok for good, a feat even his dad Odin couldn't accomplish.
>
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>
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> > > >
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> >



Posted with Apple Safari on MacOS X
HMB3




...It was during the Planet Hulk arc in which the Hulk held Skaar's tectonic plates together, a Hulk that may have still been "powered down" due to his journey through the Great Portal.

It wasn't until after the warp core explosion that he arguably received a powerup. To put it succinctly, a normal Hulk... perhaps even a powered down Hulk... accomplished a GREATER feat (since tectonic plates form the crust of a planet, and range from 12 to 70 miles deep on Earth alone, compared to a fissure perhaps several miles deep). At the very least, you have to concede that the feat was at least equal in magnitude to that performed by Thor.

I do agree that Thor is the superior fighter and has a distinct advantage in overall power. In that regard, he should defeat most opponents in his weight class a large majority when fighting to the full extent of his abilities.


> >
> >
> > > Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
> > > Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below.
> > >
> > See his fights with Gladiator, Nefaria, Hyperion and even Wonderman over the years. The fact is he does have problems with these opponents, yes he could shot them down real quick if he used the Hammers more exotic abilities but that is something he almost never does and something that has mixed results when he has - see Nefaria neutralising a portal he'd summoned.
> >
> > > Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.
> > >
> > You left out the fact that Gladiator had been stunned by Thor summoning the passing Living Lightning and delivering a particularly ruthless hammershot followed by brutal beating.
> > Gladiator has had such varied showings it's hard to compare his average to what Superman is regularly seen doing. Two very different levels of Competence.
> >
> > > In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!
> > >
> > As you may know Gladiator beat Thor in Thor 34, needed some assistance from Tarene and the Enchantress to keep in the game and yet previously had drawn against Thor if a Fantastic Four issue.
> > You point out Hyperion there yet he actually proved equal to Gladiator in a direct test of Strength! Hyperion was logged as class 85 or so roughly yet has none of the feats or showings of even Gladiator... so work it out.
> >
> > > Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:
> > >
> > Based on his matching Hyperion in a test of strength I chalk down such excessive feats to the TK portion of his power, basically he doesn't use just strength to do these feats he's using force of mind such as when he lifted the Baxter Building or was caught inside the Invisible Girls forcefield.
> >
> > > Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).
> > >
> > Most of those are from the 60s. While it's fair to say his powers wander about I have seen nothing on the same scale as a Superman.
> >
> > > To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit).
> > That was with his belt of Strength on and from a position high over the planet.
> >
> > > What this mean is:
> > > that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).
> > >
> > Nobody has EVER said Thor/mjolnir isn't in principle more powerful than Superman and co... what they point out is that in a combat situation with a foe of a physical prescence he will not use them.
> > Call is fair play, call it lowering himself, whatever. He does not fight a foe of equal stature by unloading the Hammers fuller power.
> >
> Thor simply holds back against his opponent because he doesn't want to take a life. (See Thor#305). However, when he decides to end someone’s existence he could do it with just a single blow. (See Thor #374), where he killed the Super-Strong Mutant Block-Buster with just a single blow from Mjolnir, and not even a really awesome blow at that.
>
> He holds back because he's honorable, unlike evil villains who really don't care if they slay humans by the scores, hundreds, thousands, millions to achieve their devious ends.
>
> And so Thor is considered lame and impotent for being good and showing the kind of restraint he's heroic for?
>
> He certainly knows how to "up his game" when the situation calls for it:
>
> He's the best warrior in Asgard. The Absorbing Man, when he acquired Thor's powers and could not defeat him, he said: "It ain't fair!!!" "What's good my strength, my power, if I can't land a blow?", "I didn't know it was gonna be like this!!!" The very same thing happened to Warlock, to the Juggernaut (when Thor took his invulnerable force field), Mr. Hyde (Thor#106), also, Pluto and Ares (the god of war) when Thor really cut loose in Blood and Thunder.
>
> In addition, Thor outclassed in the strength department, defeated Ares who tripled his strength (Thor #223), and had Ulik on the ropes irrespective of the fact that Ulik augmented his strength several times over, defeated the Android Zotarr (Thor-#238), but the most impressive victory of all was when Thor defeated Grog the God Crusher without his powers, super-strength, and being a mortal (Thor-#397).
>
> And that's just a FEW times I could list Thor "upping his game" when he feels the need to, but usually he only does so when humans aren't around and cannot be harmed by him so doing. BECAUSE he's honorable.
>
> You wonder about Thor's physical might? How many people do you know that can break Adamantium? Thor, with his enormous physical strength, broke through wrap-around cables made of Adamantium (Thor-#309).
>
> Have we even seen mighty Hulk, he who is "strongest there is", do that?
>
> Thor with his physical strength alone closed a fissure that HE created in the Planets crust, and then he proceeded to seal Loki in it under millions of Tons of Earth with the might of his physical might. (Avengers West Coast-#55; I). Now, that's something we saw a VERY amped up WWHulk duplicate on another planet. But hey, I guess Thor's a wimp since regular Hulk's supposed to be strongest there is and yet we've not seen regular Hulk do that, only when he was considerably amped by the WWHulk arc.
>
> How about when Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent which girds the entire Earth and holds the Ocean in place. (Thor #272).
>
> Lets not forget about his speed:
> Thor’s hammer provides the ability for Thor to fly at such speed that he can literally become invisible (JIM-#94), and can perform complicated maneuvers like performing a Pinwheel around a Flying Trans-Atlantic Jet (JIM-#107). Thor's top flying speed has been clocked at THREE TIMES the speed of LIGHT (Thor #185). Superman, by comparison, is on the record at staying about the speed of light (3 times less faster than Thor can with Mjolnir). And you say Thor's got issues hanging with Superman's Marvel clones? When Thor is embarrassingly out-speeding even Superman by a factor of 3x Lightspeed?
>
> Also, Thor can use the power of the storm at a moment’s notice. For instance, Thor used a spear of wind, or an indescribable powerful tornado, that he literally pushed against Surtur, that cause Surtur to say: "NEVER HAVE I FELT SUCH FORCE!" And, in that same issue, Thor used the power of the Storm to divert an Asteroid from it’s course and hurl it against Surtur(Thor #177). The same Surtur that even Odin with the Odin-Force can't seem to ever overcome completely, yet Thor has single handedly WITH the Odin-Force stopped Ragnarok for good, a feat even his dad Odin couldn't accomplish.
>
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



...you actually do here what I fight against 95% of the time on this board. You present the utmost best of your favorite and compare it to the average of the guy you want to put below your guy. It's not fair. If you use Thor's best you also have to use Superman or whoever else best or settle for Thor honest average.

For example:

Superman best flight speed PC are a few times to a few thousands of times faster than light. But I agree it's not his average Post Crisis. However pretending Thor flight speed is 3 times the speed of light or better is not accurate. Heck! superman got more portrayal than thor going FTL. So wheter you use the average for both or the hight end for both. Let's not even enter the realm of super-speed for obvious reasons...

Same for strenght. And BTW, the Midgard serpent is not a good feat to use because of it's nature and absolutely doesn't represent the average for Thor. Superman average and hight strenght showing pulverize Thor's. Thor doesn't got that many of them and they aren't as impressive.

Same for durability. Surviving a nebulous nuke once maybe is not Thor average at all. But it's superman bread and butter. The low showings of thor are also much lower and his hight not as hight.

Also, when you use a clone to demosntrate a point it's wise not to assume they are anything like the real deal. They are not for the simple fact they are Marvel's properties made to loose to their guys. They are, by definition, loosers. Like wise when you use a character only Thor has fought. What does it give us as an argumentation that he could beat Ulik or whatever else when used to compare DC characters?

I don't agree with your conclusions but what I wanted to point out wasn't your conclusions as much as your methods. Be fair and others will be too. At least they'll be more enclined to be.





Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Defensor




> > >
> > >
> > > > Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
> > > > Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below.
> > > >
> > > See his fights with Gladiator, Nefaria, Hyperion and even Wonderman over the years. The fact is he does have problems with these opponents, yes he could shot them down real quick if he used the Hammers more exotic abilities but that is something he almost never does and something that has mixed results when he has - see Nefaria neutralising a portal he'd summoned.
> > >
> > > > Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.
> > > >
> > > You left out the fact that Gladiator had been stunned by Thor summoning the passing Living Lightning and delivering a particularly ruthless hammershot followed by brutal beating.
> > > Gladiator has had such varied showings it's hard to compare his average to what Superman is regularly seen doing. Two very different levels of Competence.
> > >
> > > > In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!
> > > >
> > > As you may know Gladiator beat Thor in Thor 34, needed some assistance from Tarene and the Enchantress to keep in the game and yet previously had drawn against Thor if a Fantastic Four issue.
> > > You point out Hyperion there yet he actually proved equal to Gladiator in a direct test of Strength! Hyperion was logged as class 85 or so roughly yet has none of the feats or showings of even Gladiator... so work it out.
> > >
> > > > Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:
> > > >
> > > Based on his matching Hyperion in a test of strength I chalk down such excessive feats to the TK portion of his power, basically he doesn't use just strength to do these feats he's using force of mind such as when he lifted the Baxter Building or was caught inside the Invisible Girls forcefield.
> > >
> > > > Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).
> > > >
> > > Most of those are from the 60s. While it's fair to say his powers wander about I have seen nothing on the same scale as a Superman.
> > >
> > > > To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit).
> > > That was with his belt of Strength on and from a position high over the planet.
> > >
> > > > What this mean is:
> > > > that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).
> > > >
> > > Nobody has EVER said Thor/mjolnir isn't in principle more powerful than Superman and co... what they point out is that in a combat situation with a foe of a physical prescence he will not use them.
> > > Call is fair play, call it lowering himself, whatever. He does not fight a foe of equal stature by unloading the Hammers fuller power.
> > >
> > Thor simply holds back against his opponent because he doesn't want to take a life. (See Thor#305). However, when he decides to end someone’s existence he could do it with just a single blow. (See Thor #374), where he killed the Super-Strong Mutant Block-Buster with just a single blow from Mjolnir, and not even a really awesome blow at that.
> >
> > He holds back because he's honorable, unlike evil villains who really don't care if they slay humans by the scores, hundreds, thousands, millions to achieve their devious ends.
> >
> > And so Thor is considered lame and impotent for being good and showing the kind of restraint he's heroic for?
> >
> > He certainly knows how to "up his game" when the situation calls for it:
> >
> > He's the best warrior in Asgard. The Absorbing Man, when he acquired Thor's powers and could not defeat him, he said: "It ain't fair!!!" "What's good my strength, my power, if I can't land a blow?", "I didn't know it was gonna be like this!!!" The very same thing happened to Warlock, to the Juggernaut (when Thor took his invulnerable force field), Mr. Hyde (Thor#106), also, Pluto and Ares (the god of war) when Thor really cut loose in Blood and Thunder.
> >
> > In addition, Thor outclassed in the strength department, defeated Ares who tripled his strength (Thor #223), and had Ulik on the ropes irrespective of the fact that Ulik augmented his strength several times over, defeated the Android Zotarr (Thor-#238), but the most impressive victory of all was when Thor defeated Grog the God Crusher without his powers, super-strength, and being a mortal (Thor-#397).
> >
> > And that's just a FEW times I could list Thor "upping his game" when he feels the need to, but usually he only does so when humans aren't around and cannot be harmed by him so doing. BECAUSE he's honorable.
> >
> > You wonder about Thor's physical might? How many people do you know that can break Adamantium? Thor, with his enormous physical strength, broke through wrap-around cables made of Adamantium (Thor-#309).
> >
> > Have we even seen mighty Hulk, he who is "strongest there is", do that?
> If Thor can, Hulk certainly can
Cool, what mag #, like I've been showing, did Hulk punch a planet and it was destroyed? Would LOVE to see that.

Oh, and when has Hulk, ANY incarnation of Hulk, for that matter, broken Adamantium with his bare hands? Got a mag # for that, too?

After all, by your admission, whatever Thor can do, Hulk can do, right?



> > Thor with his physical strength alone closed a fissure that HE created in the Planets crust, and then he proceeded to seal Loki in it under millions of Tons of Earth with the might of his physical might. (Avengers West Coast-#55; I). Now, that's something we saw a VERY amped up WWHulk duplicate on another planet. But hey, I guess Thor's a wimp since regular Hulk's supposed to be strongest there is and yet we've not seen regular Hulk do that, only when he was considerably amped by the WWHulk arc.
> "Regular" Hulk and "Amped up" Hulk are the SAME PERSON!! HULK! We don't call Thor (in Avengers WC) VERY amped up Thor, do we? No. All versions of Hulk show various aspects of Hulk's potential, but they are all Hulk. All variations of Hulk should be considered one and the same. All Hulk feats are Hulk feats. Has Thor ever taken on the entire Marvel Universe? Withstood a scream from Black Bolt? Torn apart by an adamantium barrage? neh- Still, all that being said, Thor is still quite a bit tougher than Stuporman. It has always been company policy when doing crossovers that DC won't allow Superman to be defeated in a one on one. That was clearly the case in JLAvengers... Funny how Supes never faced Hulk in that one tho.
> >
> > How about when Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent which girds the entire Earth and holds the Ocean in place. (Thor #272).
> >
> > Lets not forget about his speed:
> > Thor’s hammer provides the ability for Thor to fly at such speed that he can literally become invisible (JIM-#94), and can perform complicated maneuvers like performing a Pinwheel around a Flying Trans-Atlantic Jet (JIM-#107). Thor's top flying speed has been clocked at THREE TIMES the speed of LIGHT (Thor #185). Superman, by comparison, is on the record at staying about the speed of light (3 times less faster than Thor can with Mjolnir). And you say Thor's got issues hanging with Superman's Marvel clones? When Thor is embarrassingly out-speeding even Superman by a factor of 3x Lightspeed?
> >
> > Also, Thor can use the power of the storm at a moment’s notice. For instance, Thor used a spear of wind, or an indescribable powerful tornado, that he literally pushed against Surtur, that cause Surtur to say: "NEVER HAVE I FELT SUCH FORCE!" And, in that same issue, Thor used the power of the Storm to divert an Asteroid from it’s course and hurl it against Surtur(Thor #177). The same Surtur that even Odin with the Odin-Force can't seem to ever overcome completely, yet Thor has single handedly WITH the Odin-Force stopped Ragnarok for good, a feat even his dad Odin couldn't accomplish.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > >

> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
HMB3




...has the Hulk attempted such a feat? Lack of attempt does not equal a lack of ability.


> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
> > > > > Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below.
> > > > >
> > > > See his fights with Gladiator, Nefaria, Hyperion and even Wonderman over the years. The fact is he does have problems with these opponents, yes he could shot them down real quick if he used the Hammers more exotic abilities but that is something he almost never does and something that has mixed results when he has - see Nefaria neutralising a portal he'd summoned.
> > > >
> > > > > Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.
> > > > >
> > > > You left out the fact that Gladiator had been stunned by Thor summoning the passing Living Lightning and delivering a particularly ruthless hammershot followed by brutal beating.
> > > > Gladiator has had such varied showings it's hard to compare his average to what Superman is regularly seen doing. Two very different levels of Competence.
> > > >
> > > > > In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!
> > > > >
> > > > As you may know Gladiator beat Thor in Thor 34, needed some assistance from Tarene and the Enchantress to keep in the game and yet previously had drawn against Thor if a Fantastic Four issue.
> > > > You point out Hyperion there yet he actually proved equal to Gladiator in a direct test of Strength! Hyperion was logged as class 85 or so roughly yet has none of the feats or showings of even Gladiator... so work it out.
> > > >
> > > > > Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:
> > > > >
> > > > Based on his matching Hyperion in a test of strength I chalk down such excessive feats to the TK portion of his power, basically he doesn't use just strength to do these feats he's using force of mind such as when he lifted the Baxter Building or was caught inside the Invisible Girls forcefield.
> > > >
> > > > > Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).
> > > > >
> > > > Most of those are from the 60s. While it's fair to say his powers wander about I have seen nothing on the same scale as a Superman.
> > > >
> > > > > To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit).
> > > > That was with his belt of Strength on and from a position high over the planet.
> > > >
> > > > > What this mean is:
> > > > > that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).
> > > > >
> > > > Nobody has EVER said Thor/mjolnir isn't in principle more powerful than Superman and co... what they point out is that in a combat situation with a foe of a physical prescence he will not use them.
> > > > Call is fair play, call it lowering himself, whatever. He does not fight a foe of equal stature by unloading the Hammers fuller power.
> > > >
> > > Thor simply holds back against his opponent because he doesn't want to take a life. (See Thor#305). However, when he decides to end someone’s existence he could do it with just a single blow. (See Thor #374), where he killed the Super-Strong Mutant Block-Buster with just a single blow from Mjolnir, and not even a really awesome blow at that.
> > >
> > > He holds back because he's honorable, unlike evil villains who really don't care if they slay humans by the scores, hundreds, thousands, millions to achieve their devious ends.
> > >
> > > And so Thor is considered lame and impotent for being good and showing the kind of restraint he's heroic for?
> > >
> > > He certainly knows how to "up his game" when the situation calls for it:
> > >
> > > He's the best warrior in Asgard. The Absorbing Man, when he acquired Thor's powers and could not defeat him, he said: "It ain't fair!!!" "What's good my strength, my power, if I can't land a blow?", "I didn't know it was gonna be like this!!!" The very same thing happened to Warlock, to the Juggernaut (when Thor took his invulnerable force field), Mr. Hyde (Thor#106), also, Pluto and Ares (the god of war) when Thor really cut loose in Blood and Thunder.
> > >
> > > In addition, Thor outclassed in the strength department, defeated Ares who tripled his strength (Thor #223), and had Ulik on the ropes irrespective of the fact that Ulik augmented his strength several times over, defeated the Android Zotarr (Thor-#238), but the most impressive victory of all was when Thor defeated Grog the God Crusher without his powers, super-strength, and being a mortal (Thor-#397).
> > >
> > > And that's just a FEW times I could list Thor "upping his game" when he feels the need to, but usually he only does so when humans aren't around and cannot be harmed by him so doing. BECAUSE he's honorable.
> > >
> > > You wonder about Thor's physical might? How many people do you know that can break Adamantium? Thor, with his enormous physical strength, broke through wrap-around cables made of Adamantium (Thor-#309).
> > >
> > > Have we even seen mighty Hulk, he who is "strongest there is", do that?
> > If Thor can, Hulk certainly can
> Cool, what mag #, like I've been showing, did Hulk punch a planet and it was destroyed? Would LOVE to see that.
>
> Oh, and when has Hulk, ANY incarnation of Hulk, for that matter, broken Adamantium with his bare hands? Got a mag # for that, too?
>
> After all, by your admission, whatever Thor can do, Hulk can do, right?
>
>
>
> > > Thor with his physical strength alone closed a fissure that HE created in the Planets crust, and then he proceeded to seal Loki in it under millions of Tons of Earth with the might of his physical might. (Avengers West Coast-#55; I). Now, that's something we saw a VERY amped up WWHulk duplicate on another planet. But hey, I guess Thor's a wimp since regular Hulk's supposed to be strongest there is and yet we've not seen regular Hulk do that, only when he was considerably amped by the WWHulk arc.
> > "Regular" Hulk and "Amped up" Hulk are the SAME PERSON!! HULK! We don't call Thor (in Avengers WC) VERY amped up Thor, do we? No. All versions of Hulk show various aspects of Hulk's potential, but they are all Hulk. All variations of Hulk should be considered one and the same. All Hulk feats are Hulk feats. Has Thor ever taken on the entire Marvel Universe? Withstood a scream from Black Bolt? Torn apart by an adamantium barrage? neh- Still, all that being said, Thor is still quite a bit tougher than Stuporman. It has always been company policy when doing crossovers that DC won't allow Superman to be defeated in a one on one. That was clearly the case in JLAvengers... Funny how Supes never faced Hulk in that one tho.
> > >
> > > How about when Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent which girds the entire Earth and holds the Ocean in place. (Thor #272).
> > >
> > > Lets not forget about his speed:
> > > Thor’s hammer provides the ability for Thor to fly at such speed that he can literally become invisible (JIM-#94), and can perform complicated maneuvers like performing a Pinwheel around a Flying Trans-Atlantic Jet (JIM-#107). Thor's top flying speed has been clocked at THREE TIMES the speed of LIGHT (Thor #185). Superman, by comparison, is on the record at staying about the speed of light (3 times less faster than Thor can with Mjolnir). And you say Thor's got issues hanging with Superman's Marvel clones? When Thor is embarrassingly out-speeding even Superman by a factor of 3x Lightspeed?
> > >
> > > Also, Thor can use the power of the storm at a moment’s notice. For instance, Thor used a spear of wind, or an indescribable powerful tornado, that he literally pushed against Surtur, that cause Surtur to say: "NEVER HAVE I FELT SUCH FORCE!" And, in that same issue, Thor used the power of the Storm to divert an Asteroid from it’s course and hurl it against Surtur(Thor #177). The same Surtur that even Odin with the Odin-Force can't seem to ever overcome completely, yet Thor has single handedly WITH the Odin-Force stopped Ragnarok for good, a feat even his dad Odin couldn't accomplish.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >

> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >

> > > >



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Defensor




>
> ...you actually do here what I fight against 95% of the time on this board. You present the utmost best of your favorite and compare it to the average of the guy you want to put below your guy. It's not fair. If you use Thor's best you also have to use Superman or whoever else best or settle for Thor honest average.
>
> For example:
>
> Superman best flight speed PC are a few times to a few thousands of times faster than light. But I agree it's not his average Post Crisis. However pretending Thor flight speed is 3 times the speed of light or better is not accurate. Heck! superman got more portrayal than thor going FTL. So wheter you use the average for both or the hight end for both. Let's not even enter the realm of super-speed for obvious reasons...
>
> Same for strenght. And BTW, the Midgard serpent is not a good feat to use because of it's nature and absolutely doesn't represent the average for Thor. Superman average and hight strenght showing pulverize Thor's. Thor doesn't got that many of them and they aren't as impressive.

Not as impressive? Supes hasn't punched a planet to smitherine's like Thor has twice.

Lets not forget, too:

People were REALLY impressed by Cpt. Billy Marvel striking down Superman with his magic lightning. Pretty powerful, that, but lets not forget that Thor has been on the receiving end of Zeus and Blitziana's LIGHTNING bolts, before. I could be wrong, but I think Zeus is FAR more powerful than Cpt. Billy Marvel is, and Thor continued the fight with Zeus impressively, while Superman was CLEARLY weakened and practically wobbling around punchdrunk at first. Yet Superman's feats pulverize Thor's?

Thor's immortal life force could be more powerful than the mystical properties of his hammer; that when combined with the power of his hammer can release incredible amounts of energy (Thor #388).

Galactus tasted defeat when Thor used the Life Force on him (see Thor #161).

Thor’s Life-Force, or God-Force, also destroyed the Brain Dome of the 20,000 ft. tall Celestial Exitar; which should be many times more durable than Adamantiun considering their thousands, if not, millions of years of technology ahead of the human race.

Also, the Destroyer using ALL OF HIS POWERS at his command could not destroy Thor’s Life-Force (see Thor #381).



> Same for durability. Surviving a nebulous nuke once maybe is not Thor average at all. But it's superman bread and butter. The low showings of thor are also much lower and his hight not as hight.
>
> Also, when you use a clone to demosntrate a point it's wise not to assume they are anything like the real deal. They are not for the simple fact they are Marvel's properties made to loose to their guys. They are, by definition, loosers. Like wise when you use a character only Thor has fought. What does it give us as an argumentation that he could beat Ulik or whatever else when used to compare DC characters?
>
> I don't agree with your conclusions but what I wanted to point out wasn't your conclusions as much as your methods. Be fair and others will be too. At least they'll be more enclined to be.
>
>
>



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Defensor




> ...has the Hulk attempted such a feat? Lack of attempt does not equal a lack of ability.
>
LMAO, sure, if you makes you sleep comfy at night, go ahead and think so.

By the way, has Green Hulk, in ANY of his Green incarnations, ever lifted Mjolnir? Even once?

Picture an object that weighs practically thousands of tons (The Hulk couldn’t even budge the hammer when he tried to lift it using the Full strength of both his arms).

He who is "strongest there is", yet Superman could lift Mjolnir, took everything he could muster.

Based on pure strength, we see Thor lifts Mjolnir, Superman lifts Mjolnir, yet he who is strongest there is strains with all his might to lift Mjolnir and yet fails to do so, not even a milimeter, not an inch, NOT AT ALL.

You said: Hulk > Thor > Superman.
Yet Thor & Supes can lift Mjolnir. Heck, Cpt. America Steve can.
The sheer fact of the matter is:

Thor > Superman > Hulk



> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
> > > > > > Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below.
> > > > > >
> > > > > See his fights with Gladiator, Nefaria, Hyperion and even Wonderman over the years. The fact is he does have problems with these opponents, yes he could shot them down real quick if he used the Hammers more exotic abilities but that is something he almost never does and something that has mixed results when he has - see Nefaria neutralising a portal he'd summoned.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.
> > > > > >
> > > > > You left out the fact that Gladiator had been stunned by Thor summoning the passing Living Lightning and delivering a particularly ruthless hammershot followed by brutal beating.
> > > > > Gladiator has had such varied showings it's hard to compare his average to what Superman is regularly seen doing. Two very different levels of Competence.
> > > > >
> > > > > > In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > As you may know Gladiator beat Thor in Thor 34, needed some assistance from Tarene and the Enchantress to keep in the game and yet previously had drawn against Thor if a Fantastic Four issue.
> > > > > You point out Hyperion there yet he actually proved equal to Gladiator in a direct test of Strength! Hyperion was logged as class 85 or so roughly yet has none of the feats or showings of even Gladiator... so work it out.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:
> > > > > >
> > > > > Based on his matching Hyperion in a test of strength I chalk down such excessive feats to the TK portion of his power, basically he doesn't use just strength to do these feats he's using force of mind such as when he lifted the Baxter Building or was caught inside the Invisible Girls forcefield.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).
> > > > > >
> > > > > Most of those are from the 60s. While it's fair to say his powers wander about I have seen nothing on the same scale as a Superman.
> > > > >
> > > > > > To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit).
> > > > > That was with his belt of Strength on and from a position high over the planet.
> > > > >
> > > > > > What this mean is:
> > > > > > that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).
> > > > > >
> > > > > Nobody has EVER said Thor/mjolnir isn't in principle more powerful than Superman and co... what they point out is that in a combat situation with a foe of a physical prescence he will not use them.
> > > > > Call is fair play, call it lowering himself, whatever. He does not fight a foe of equal stature by unloading the Hammers fuller power.
> > > > >
> > > > Thor simply holds back against his opponent because he doesn't want to take a life. (See Thor#305). However, when he decides to end someone’s existence he could do it with just a single blow. (See Thor #374), where he killed the Super-Strong Mutant Block-Buster with just a single blow from Mjolnir, and not even a really awesome blow at that.
> > > >
> > > > He holds back because he's honorable, unlike evil villains who really don't care if they slay humans by the scores, hundreds, thousands, millions to achieve their devious ends.
> > > >
> > > > And so Thor is considered lame and impotent for being good and showing the kind of restraint he's heroic for?
> > > >
> > > > He certainly knows how to "up his game" when the situation calls for it:
> > > >
> > > > He's the best warrior in Asgard. The Absorbing Man, when he acquired Thor's powers and could not defeat him, he said: "It ain't fair!!!" "What's good my strength, my power, if I can't land a blow?", "I didn't know it was gonna be like this!!!" The very same thing happened to Warlock, to the Juggernaut (when Thor took his invulnerable force field), Mr. Hyde (Thor#106), also, Pluto and Ares (the god of war) when Thor really cut loose in Blood and Thunder.
> > > >
> > > > In addition, Thor outclassed in the strength department, defeated Ares who tripled his strength (Thor #223), and had Ulik on the ropes irrespective of the fact that Ulik augmented his strength several times over, defeated the Android Zotarr (Thor-#238), but the most impressive victory of all was when Thor defeated Grog the God Crusher without his powers, super-strength, and being a mortal (Thor-#397).
> > > >
> > > > And that's just a FEW times I could list Thor "upping his game" when he feels the need to, but usually he only does so when humans aren't around and cannot be harmed by him so doing. BECAUSE he's honorable.
> > > >
> > > > You wonder about Thor's physical might? How many people do you know that can break Adamantium? Thor, with his enormous physical strength, broke through wrap-around cables made of Adamantium (Thor-#309).
> > > >
> > > > Have we even seen mighty Hulk, he who is "strongest there is", do that?
> > > If Thor can, Hulk certainly can
> > Cool, what mag #, like I've been showing, did Hulk punch a planet and it was destroyed? Would LOVE to see that.
> >
> > Oh, and when has Hulk, ANY incarnation of Hulk, for that matter, broken Adamantium with his bare hands? Got a mag # for that, too?
> >
> > After all, by your admission, whatever Thor can do, Hulk can do, right?
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Thor with his physical strength alone closed a fissure that HE created in the Planets crust, and then he proceeded to seal Loki in it under millions of Tons of Earth with the might of his physical might. (Avengers West Coast-#55; I). Now, that's something we saw a VERY amped up WWHulk duplicate on another planet. But hey, I guess Thor's a wimp since regular Hulk's supposed to be strongest there is and yet we've not seen regular Hulk do that, only when he was considerably amped by the WWHulk arc.
> > > "Regular" Hulk and "Amped up" Hulk are the SAME PERSON!! HULK! We don't call Thor (in Avengers WC) VERY amped up Thor, do we? No. All versions of Hulk show various aspects of Hulk's potential, but they are all Hulk. All variations of Hulk should be considered one and the same. All Hulk feats are Hulk feats. Has Thor ever taken on the entire Marvel Universe? Withstood a scream from Black Bolt? Torn apart by an adamantium barrage? neh- Still, all that being said, Thor is still quite a bit tougher than Stuporman. It has always been company policy when doing crossovers that DC won't allow Superman to be defeated in a one on one. That was clearly the case in JLAvengers... Funny how Supes never faced Hulk in that one tho.
> > > >
> > > > How about when Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent which girds the entire Earth and holds the Ocean in place. (Thor #272).
> > > >
> > > > Lets not forget about his speed:
> > > > Thor’s hammer provides the ability for Thor to fly at such speed that he can literally become invisible (JIM-#94), and can perform complicated maneuvers like performing a Pinwheel around a Flying Trans-Atlantic Jet (JIM-#107). Thor's top flying speed has been clocked at THREE TIMES the speed of LIGHT (Thor #185). Superman, by comparison, is on the record at staying about the speed of light (3 times less faster than Thor can with Mjolnir). And you say Thor's got issues hanging with Superman's Marvel clones? When Thor is embarrassingly out-speeding even Superman by a factor of 3x Lightspeed?
> > > >
> > > > Also, Thor can use the power of the storm at a moment’s notice. For instance, Thor used a spear of wind, or an indescribable powerful tornado, that he literally pushed against Surtur, that cause Surtur to say: "NEVER HAVE I FELT SUCH FORCE!" And, in that same issue, Thor used the power of the Storm to divert an Asteroid from it’s course and hurl it against Surtur(Thor #177). The same Surtur that even Odin with the Odin-Force can't seem to ever overcome completely, yet Thor has single handedly WITH the Odin-Force stopped Ragnarok for good, a feat even his dad Odin couldn't accomplish.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >

> > > > >



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



> >
> > ...you actually do here what I fight against 95% of the time on this board. You present the utmost best of your favorite and compare it to the average of the guy you want to put below your guy. It's not fair. If you use Thor's best you also have to use Superman or whoever else best or settle for Thor honest average.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > Superman best flight speed PC are a few times to a few thousands of times faster than light. But I agree it's not his average Post Crisis. However pretending Thor flight speed is 3 times the speed of light or better is not accurate. Heck! superman got more portrayal than thor going FTL. So wheter you use the average for both or the hight end for both. Let's not even enter the realm of super-speed for obvious reasons...
> >
> > Same for strenght. And BTW, the Midgard serpent is not a good feat to use because of it's nature and absolutely doesn't represent the average for Thor. Superman average and hight strenght showing pulverize Thor's. Thor doesn't got that many of them and they aren't as impressive.
>
> Not as impressive? Supes hasn't punched a planet to smitherine's like Thor has twice.
>

2 things here:

1) Thor hammer stroke are NOT only strenght realated. There's and added power from the mechanic of wielding an extended tool and the energy coming from the hammer also add to the striking force apparently.

2)Superman feats of that scopea re pushing or pulling. But on average his strenght feat are way higher.

> Lets not forget, too:
>
> People were REALLY impressed by Cpt. Billy Marvel striking down Superman with his magic lightning. Pretty powerful, that, but lets not forget that Thor has been on the receiving end of Zeus and Blitziana's LIGHTNING bolts, before. I could be wrong, but I think Zeus is FAR more powerful than Cpt. Billy Marvel is, and Thor continued the fight with Zeus impressively, while Superman was CLEARLY weakened and practically wobbling around punchdrunk at first. Yet Superman's feats pulverize Thor's?
>

1)Cap Marvel lightning IS the power of Zeus.
2)Kingdom Come, because it's what you refer too, is an elseworld.
3)Even with the several lightning in KC, Superman endured to win the fight.
4)Superman took far more powerful energy attacks than that and survived them all.
5)What has that got to do with strenght?

> Thor's immortal life force could be more powerful than the mystical properties of his hammer; that when combined with the power of his hammer can release incredible amounts of energy (Thor #388).
>
> Galactus tasted defeat when Thor used the Life Force on him (see Thor #161).
>

You see, you again turn toward a one shot long time no see feat as if it's Thor average. Thor struggle with far far far far far far less than Galactus 99.999999999999999% of the time. Superman has done plenty of those pesky one shot things but I refuse to say it's normal when clearly some aren't plain and simple.

> Thor’s Life-Force, or God-Force, also destroyed the Brain Dome of the 20,000 ft. tall Celestial Exitar; which should be many times more durable than Adamantiun considering their thousands, if not, millions of years of technology ahead of the human race.
>

I don't think the celestial shell are that ubber sorry. Incredibly powerful yes but not to the point many here fancy. Much less than that has been shown to do more than poke a tiny hole and the celestial don't seem to care at all when their shell are breached as they don't seem to depend on it. Beside, you again turn to extremes. Do I consider superman will always go to the sun and pull an OWaW every time I talk about him vs someone else? No. He did ONCE and it wasn't normal. But hey! he really was powerful to the point it was ridiculous and if one shot exploits are fair...


> Also, the Destroyer using ALL OF HIS POWERS at his command could not destroy Thor’s Life-Force (see Thor #381).
>

And ? How can I use this when comparing with superman? You didn't read what I said no? I didn't want to start a braggin war. I wanted you to use similar showings in your comparison. If thor hight are used use superman's hight. If you want to use superman's average use Thor's average. It's fairer. Wheter you think Thor is more powerful than superman or not is yours to decide but if you want to "prove" it at least attempt it fairly. Anyway, I'll call it a night. Work to do for tomorow ... cya \:\-\)

>
>
> > Same for durability. Surviving a nebulous nuke once maybe is not Thor average at all. But it's superman bread and butter. The low showings of thor are also much lower and his hight not as hight.
> >
> > Also, when you use a clone to demosntrate a point it's wise not to assume they are anything like the real deal. They are not for the simple fact they are Marvel's properties made to loose to their guys. They are, by definition, loosers. Like wise when you use a character only Thor has fought. What does it give us as an argumentation that he could beat Ulik or whatever else when used to compare DC characters?
> >
> > I don't agree with your conclusions but what I wanted to point out wasn't your conclusions as much as your methods. Be fair and others will be too. At least they'll be more enclined to be.
> >
> >
> >



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Destroyer




>
> > >
> > > > Seems Red Hulk beat Thor in solo combat, then beat Hulk in solo combat, one-punch KO'd Uatu the Watcher, fought She-Hulk and other hotties, defeated a pack of Wendigo's, all in one day it seems.
> > > >
> > > *He beat Thor in Round 1!
> > >
> > > *Flooring a Watcher is not a big deal.
> > >
> > > *Wendigos can vary wildly between incarnations
> > >
> > > > Thor fought Superman solo and barely lost. Supes was tanked afterwards and couldn't even defend himself against a buncha Avengers.
> > > >
> > > Errr, Would you care to name those Avengers? \:P
> > Finally both teams find themselves in the Savage Land of the Avengers Universe. Above them the Cosmic Cube hovers & both teams stare at it in a moment of hestitation before Scarlet Witch calls her comrades to arms & the battle royal begins. While Hercules takes on Wonder Woman, Green Lantern fights Photon. Thor & Superman wage a vicious battle between each other. Superman unleashes his heat vision, which injures the Thunder God but Thor manages to summon enough strength to bring his hammer down on the Man of Steel. To everyone's surprise, mainly Thor's, Superman catches the Hammer & lands a vicious roundhouse punch, knocking Thor out. Thor's comrades see this and the strongest of their number pile on Superman.
> >
> Chiefly Hercules with his mace, She-Hulk, Iron Man, The Vision & Wonderman. It takes that lot giving a no holds barred beating to put him down & out! And That's After Thor had given his all...
>
> > > > Since Red Hulk did so much in one day, and Supes couldn't even do HALF as much in defeating Thor then getting pounded on by the Avengers, I think it's safe to say:
> > > >
> > > > Red Hulk > Superman & Wonder Woman, right?
> > > >
> > > Wrong. See their performance against Konvikt.
> >
> > Actually, if it wasn't for Batman's going to the ship and discovering what it would take to take care of Konvikt, it really wasn't looking good for Wonder Woman and Superman up till that point.
> >
> Actually that is not true, Superman was letting loose on the powered up Konvikt and was looking well on his way to getting the KO. Batmans summoning distracts him from that job and he opts for the tech Batman has discovered as the logical and easier way of shutting Konvikt down.

I didn't see any signs of him coming close to knocking out konvickt he gegan doing better but he still never did any real damage to Konvivkt.
>
> > Wonder Woman was left to basically fight a retreating battle, knowing she couldn't take him, and even Supes was leary leaving her on her own. But she's smart, she fought a retreating battle to keep him busy, not to defeat him. She knew she couldn't on her own, Supes knew it too, but she still sent him off to see what Batman wanted, figuring Batman had the solution that both Supes/WW didn't have at that point.
> >
>
> Sure?
>
>

>



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
HMB3




> > ...has the Hulk attempted such a feat? Lack of attempt does not equal a lack of ability.
> >
> LMAO, sure, if you makes you sleep comfy at night, go ahead and think so.
>
What are you... eight years old? Or is this considered a well-reasoned rebuttal in your neck of the woods?

> By the way, has Green Hulk, in ANY of his Green incarnations, ever lifted Mjolnir? Even once?
>
The last I heard, Mjolnir is enchanted to prevent anyone "unworthy" from lifting it. If anyone in the DCU is worthy, that someone would be Superman.

> Picture an object that weighs practically thousands of tons (The Hulk couldn’t even budge the hammer when he tried to lift it using the Full strength of both his arms).
>
Mjolnir does not weigh thousands of tons, not even close. But ok, for the sake of argument I'll play your little game... I have a very vivid imagination (need proof? I imagined you were capable of intelligent conversation... that trip to La La Land was short lived.) I am now envisioning Mjolnir weighing "practically" thousands of tons. In my mind's eye I see... STEVE ROGERS lifting Mjolnir. I never realized ol' Captain America was as strong as Thor, but your own argument suggests otherwise.


> He who is "strongest there is", yet Superman could lift Mjolnir, took everything he could muster.
>
> Based on pure strength, we see Thor lifts Mjolnir, Superman lifts Mjolnir, yet he who is strongest there is strains with all his might to lift Mjolnir and yet fails to do so, not even a milimeter, not an inch, NOT AT ALL.
>
> You said: Hulk > Thor > Superman.
> Yet Thor & Supes can lift Mjolnir. Heck, Cpt. America Steve can.
> The sheer fact of the matter is:
>
> Thor > Superman > Hulk
>
Look, you don't have to convince me you are Thor's biggest fangirl (now where did I get that little euphemism from?), but if this argument is the foundation upon which you stake your claims, it's weaker than puppy piss.... kinda like most of your arguments.

Now, just for kicks... try a more cerebral approach in your future debates, IF you have it in you that is.

Peace out.

>
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nice pic, but take a look at THIS:
> > > > > > > Thor's hammer can reverse energy polarities (see Avengers #70 - versus Hyperion when Thor reverses the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. To which Hyperion could do NOTHING against, and lets face it, Thor did it a LONG time ago, whereas Surfer just got around to pulling a similar trick on him only a year or so ago, right?. He was beaten, so I really don't see how Thor gets his booty handed to him sooooo handily by Marvel's Superman clone types as you show below.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > See his fights with Gladiator, Nefaria, Hyperion and even Wonderman over the years. The fact is he does have problems with these opponents, yes he could shot them down real quick if he used the Hammers more exotic abilities but that is something he almost never does and something that has mixed results when he has - see Nefaria neutralising a portal he'd summoned.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gladiator? You use Gladiator? Thor #445 showed even lame Eric Masterson was capable of beating Gladiator down so badly, Wonderman and Vision had to litterally PULL him offa Gladiator to keep him from slaying him, and lets face it, Masterson has NEVER shown the sheer power, ferocity, and battle fighting skills that Thor has.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > You left out the fact that Gladiator had been stunned by Thor summoning the passing Living Lightning and delivering a particularly ruthless hammershot followed by brutal beating.
> > > > > > Gladiator has had such varied showings it's hard to compare his average to what Superman is regularly seen doing. Two very different levels of Competence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > In fact, the vast majority of the battles between Thor and Gladiator have shown Thor winning a clear majority of those times, and Thor has an even BETTER track record against Hyperion !!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > As you may know Gladiator beat Thor in Thor 34, needed some assistance from Tarene and the Enchantress to keep in the game and yet previously had drawn against Thor if a Fantastic Four issue.
> > > > > > You point out Hyperion there yet he actually proved equal to Gladiator in a direct test of Strength! Hyperion was logged as class 85 or so roughly yet has none of the feats or showings of even Gladiator... so work it out.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now, I think I know you well enough to know that you'll fire back with Gladiator's punching a planet to pieces in three punches feat. LOL. Which is indeed impressive, but look at what Thor did to top even that:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Based on his matching Hyperion in a test of strength I chalk down such excessive feats to the TK portion of his power, basically he doesn't use just strength to do these feats he's using force of mind such as when he lifted the Baxter Building or was caught inside the Invisible Girls forcefield.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thor is capable of shattering entire Mountains (Thor #156), pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor #400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor #388), or even destroy an entire World (Thor #125).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Most of those are from the 60s. While it's fair to say his powers wander about I have seen nothing on the same scale as a Superman.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > To really analyze the full strength of Thor, in Thor #388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit).
> > > > > > That was with his belt of Strength on and from a position high over the planet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > What this mean is:
> > > > > > > that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn't shake a whole planet. Also, Thor can destroy an entire World (Fantastic Four #339). In fact, Thor can summon the full power of his hammer to radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction (Thor-#351).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Nobody has EVER said Thor/mjolnir isn't in principle more powerful than Superman and co... what they point out is that in a combat situation with a foe of a physical prescence he will not use them.
> > > > > > Call is fair play, call it lowering himself, whatever. He does not fight a foe of equal stature by unloading the Hammers fuller power.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Thor simply holds back against his opponent because he doesn't want to take a life. (See Thor#305). However, when he decides to end someone’s existence he could do it with just a single blow. (See Thor #374), where he killed the Super-Strong Mutant Block-Buster with just a single blow from Mjolnir, and not even a really awesome blow at that.
> > > > >
> > > > > He holds back because he's honorable, unlike evil villains who really don't care if they slay humans by the scores, hundreds, thousands, millions to achieve their devious ends.
> > > > >
> > > > > And so Thor is considered lame and impotent for being good and showing the kind of restraint he's heroic for?
> > > > >
> > > > > He certainly knows how to "up his game" when the situation calls for it:
> > > > >
> > > > > He's the best warrior in Asgard. The Absorbing Man, when he acquired Thor's powers and could not defeat him, he said: "It ain't fair!!!" "What's good my strength, my power, if I can't land a blow?", "I didn't know it was gonna be like this!!!" The very same thing happened to Warlock, to the Juggernaut (when Thor took his invulnerable force field), Mr. Hyde (Thor#106), also, Pluto and Ares (the god of war) when Thor really cut loose in Blood and Thunder.
> > > > >
> > > > > In addition, Thor outclassed in the strength department, defeated Ares who tripled his strength (Thor #223), and had Ulik on the ropes irrespective of the fact that Ulik augmented his strength several times over, defeated the Android Zotarr (Thor-#238), but the most impressive victory of all was when Thor defeated Grog the God Crusher without his powers, super-strength, and being a mortal (Thor-#397).
> > > > >
> > > > > And that's just a FEW times I could list Thor "upping his game" when he feels the need to, but usually he only does so when humans aren't around and cannot be harmed by him so doing. BECAUSE he's honorable.
> > > > >
> > > > > You wonder about Thor's physical might? How many people do you know that can break Adamantium? Thor, with his enormous physical strength, broke through wrap-around cables made of Adamantium (Thor-#309).
> > > > >
> > > > > Have we even seen mighty Hulk, he who is "strongest there is", do that?
> > > > If Thor can, Hulk certainly can
> > > Cool, what mag #, like I've been showing, did Hulk punch a planet and it was destroyed? Would LOVE to see that.
> > >
> > > Oh, and when has Hulk, ANY incarnation of Hulk, for that matter, broken Adamantium with his bare hands? Got a mag # for that, too?
> > >
> > > After all, by your admission, whatever Thor can do, Hulk can do, right?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Thor with his physical strength alone closed a fissure that HE created in the Planets crust, and then he proceeded to seal Loki in it under millions of Tons of Earth with the might of his physical might. (Avengers West Coast-#55; I). Now, that's something we saw a VERY amped up WWHulk duplicate on another planet. But hey, I guess Thor's a wimp since regular Hulk's supposed to be strongest there is and yet we've not seen regular Hulk do that, only when he was considerably amped by the WWHulk arc.
> > > > "Regular" Hulk and "Amped up" Hulk are the SAME PERSON!! HULK! We don't call Thor (in Avengers WC) VERY amped up Thor, do we? No. All versions of Hulk show various aspects of Hulk's potential, but they are all Hulk. All variations of Hulk should be considered one and the same. All Hulk feats are Hulk feats. Has Thor ever taken on the entire Marvel Universe? Withstood a scream from Black Bolt? Torn apart by an adamantium barrage? neh- Still, all that being said, Thor is still quite a bit tougher than Stuporman. It has always been company policy when doing crossovers that DC won't allow Superman to be defeated in a one on one. That was clearly the case in JLAvengers... Funny how Supes never faced Hulk in that one tho.
> > > > >
> > > > > How about when Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent which girds the entire Earth and holds the Ocean in place. (Thor #272).
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets not forget about his speed:
> > > > > Thor’s hammer provides the ability for Thor to fly at such speed that he can literally become invisible (JIM-#94), and can perform complicated maneuvers like performing a Pinwheel around a Flying Trans-Atlantic Jet (JIM-#107). Thor's top flying speed has been clocked at THREE TIMES the speed of LIGHT (Thor #185). Superman, by comparison, is on the record at staying about the speed of light (3 times less faster than Thor can with Mjolnir). And you say Thor's got issues hanging with Superman's Marvel clones? When Thor is embarrassingly out-speeding even Superman by a factor of 3x Lightspeed?
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, Thor can use the power of the storm at a moment’s notice. For instance, Thor used a spear of wind, or an indescribable powerful tornado, that he literally pushed against Surtur, that cause Surtur to say: "NEVER HAVE I FELT SUCH FORCE!" And, in that same issue, Thor used the power of the Storm to divert an Asteroid from it’s course and hurl it against Surtur(Thor #177). The same Surtur that even Odin with the Odin-Force can't seem to ever overcome completely, yet Thor has single handedly WITH the Odin-Force stopped Ragnarok for good, a feat even his dad Odin couldn't accomplish.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



> my examples above show several instances where in fact, Thor is Superman's superior in several things.
>
And as i said no one ever disputed he isn't more powerful than Superman when really cutting loose with the Hammers magiks....

> And lets face it, Thor's got WAY less weaknesses than Superman does. Just what is out there that specifically weakens Asgardians? Nothing.
At various points they have been shown not to be bulletproof. Big weakness there.
They are able to be gassed, drowned & even roasted.

> Superman's weakened by Magic, which Thor isn't.
Yes he is. It depends entirely what the magic is and where it's coming from, I can reel off a list of occasions superman has actively fought off a magic spell.
Thor has been affected by Loki, Dr Strange, Lorelei, Enchantress and Hela. What makes him look good against direct magical attack is an enchated Hammer that can repel most of those attacks.

> Superman's weakened by Kryptonite, yet there isn't some mineral out there we're aware of that's universally repugnant to Asgardians. Superman's weakened by Red Sun energy, yet Thor's capable of wielding ANY powersource through Mjolnir.
>
Err, what sort of an argument is that? Thor is affected by Gas attack, Superman is not. Thor can Drown, Superman can't. Thor can be affected by heat, superman cannot, Thor has been flattened by low tier speedsters, superman.... you get the idea. \:\)

> I've directed several examples above in this thread, all to show that Thor isn't some lackey to Superman, cause you said he can't even defeat the Superman clones, yet I can show Superman's abilities in several instances fall FAR below Thor's. I've even shown Thor out-classing Superman in strength feats, speed feats, the list goes on.
>
You've shown Thors occasional Uber feats that he has performed with Belt of strength or some other mitigating factor. You've also fallen into the trap of considering Hhyperion etc as equal to Superman - they are not!

> The sheer fact of the matter is that: Superman and Thor are close, but Thor's simply above Superman. With strength, speed, and other feats. Even Superman's highest end feats ahve been surpassed by Thor.
>
... yeah, right! \:\)

> Thor is to Marvel what Superman is to DC. The golden child.
>
That's Sentry.

> I'll call them equal for arguments sake, but really, I've more than amply proven Thor's highest feats and abilities outstrip Superman's.
>
....Sure! \:\)



>



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



> >
> > > >
> > > > > Seems Red Hulk beat Thor in solo combat, then beat Hulk in solo combat, one-punch KO'd Uatu the Watcher, fought She-Hulk and other hotties, defeated a pack of Wendigo's, all in one day it seems.
> > > > >
> > > > *He beat Thor in Round 1!
> > > >
> > > > *Flooring a Watcher is not a big deal.
> > > >
> > > > *Wendigos can vary wildly between incarnations
> > > >
> > > > > Thor fought Superman solo and barely lost. Supes was tanked afterwards and couldn't even defend himself against a buncha Avengers.
> > > > >
> > > > Errr, Would you care to name those Avengers? \:P
> > > Finally both teams find themselves in the Savage Land of the Avengers Universe. Above them the Cosmic Cube hovers & both teams stare at it in a moment of hestitation before Scarlet Witch calls her comrades to arms & the battle royal begins. While Hercules takes on Wonder Woman, Green Lantern fights Photon. Thor & Superman wage a vicious battle between each other. Superman unleashes his heat vision, which injures the Thunder God but Thor manages to summon enough strength to bring his hammer down on the Man of Steel. To everyone's surprise, mainly Thor's, Superman catches the Hammer & lands a vicious roundhouse punch, knocking Thor out. Thor's comrades see this and the strongest of their number pile on Superman.
> > >
> > Chiefly Hercules with his mace, She-Hulk, Iron Man, The Vision & Wonderman. It takes that lot giving a no holds barred beating to put him down & out! And That's After Thor had given his all...
> >
> > > > > Since Red Hulk did so much in one day, and Supes couldn't even do HALF as much in defeating Thor then getting pounded on by the Avengers, I think it's safe to say:
> > > > >
> > > > > Red Hulk > Superman & Wonder Woman, right?
> > > > >
> > > > Wrong. See their performance against Konvikt.
> > >
> > > Actually, if it wasn't for Batman's going to the ship and discovering what it would take to take care of Konvikt, it really wasn't looking good for Wonder Woman and Superman up till that point.
> > >
> > Actually that is not true, Superman was letting loose on the powered up Konvikt and was looking well on his way to getting the KO. Batmans summoning distracts him from that job and he opts for the tech Batman has discovered as the logical and easier way of shutting Konvikt down.
>
> I didn't see any signs of him coming close to knocking out konvickt he gegan doing better but he still never did any real damage to Konvivkt.

Well, if you hit something repeatedly (i.e Konvikt) and keep hitting it it will go down.
So in the page below you see Superman doing just that and Konvikt unable to reply in kind. It's like one of those Boxing matches where the fave is unloading relentlessly on the opposition to the point where the Ref has to step in mercifully and call the fight off....


> >



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ArtTeacher


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,197



> *He beat Thor in Round 1!

I figure any time you can whip a Thunder God is kind of a big deal.

> *Flooring a Watcher is not a big deal.

Really? This happens all the time, does it? Care to name a few times?

> *Wendigos can vary wildly between incarnations

They can? Where does one find this info?



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ArtTeacher


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,197



> Well, if you hit something repeatedly (i.e Konvikt) and keep hitting it it will go down.

Exactly:




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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



>
> > *He beat Thor in Round 1!
>
> I figure any time you can whip a Thunder God is kind of a big deal.
>
Have you followed Thor? Lots of times he gets majorly owned 1st round and comes back winner in the 2nd - see Perrikus, Absorbing Man, The Wrecker, Gladiator, Ulik, Juggernaut, Mangog and more besides.

> > *Flooring a Watcher is not a big deal.
>
> Really? This happens all the time, does it? Care to name a few times?
>
What's so special about dropping a Watcher? A pacifist who won't fight back and who didn't even se it coming? I just don't see the feat here. May as well congratulate someone because they floored the Pope.

> > *Wendigos can vary wildly between incarnations
>
> They can? Where does one find this info?
>
If you read the Comics that feature him you will learn that the spell that activates a Wendigo incarnation can vary. Some do not fully embrace the Wendigo while others go all the way and let it take them over. The spells strength can vary and a notable example of all this is the incarnation seen in Todd McFarlanes Spider-man way back, this one was both a vegan and a Pacifist(!)








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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



>
> > Well, if you hit something repeatedly (i.e Konvikt) and keep hitting it it will go down.
>
> Exactly:
>
... Still wheeling out that?!
 
 



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