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TheMadTitan




Ok so I know Thanos is mainly considered to be at Teambuster level on the boards but I tend to think we are selling him short has he has a lot more going for him than say WWH or Doomsday.

I happen to think Thanos crosses over into the Skyfather level category, Im not saying he's up there with Odin but I do think he makes it in to the low end - heres a few reasons why (& a couple of links):

Strength
-Able to physically match both Thor and Thing pre-resurrection
-Knocks the Champion of the Universe flying back with one punch (Earth heroes had a job to hurt him with punches)
-Holds back both Hulk and Thing in Infinity Crusade
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3678/strength7qj7.jpg


Durability
-Unharmed by Surfers blast http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9489/durability2nm6.jpg
-Survives blasts from Omega and Galactus both top end Cosmics
-Survives Blasts and physical attacks by Tyrant and Odin both High end Skyfather level beings
-Absorbed the Heart of the Universe
-Survived a black hole with a few cuts and bruises

Energy Projection
-Blasts Galactus out of his ship and across a planet http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1365/energy291ol2.jpg
-Helps Free in-betweener from his 'prison construct'
-Destroys an ironman level being with one shot http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8937/energy24zr9.jpg
-KOs Thing and Thor with eye beams http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/835/energy7bq2.jpg

Energy Manipulation
-Turns a Skrull to stone
- Thanos created a house from nothing (Infinity Abyss)
-Heals the Cleric of wounds (Thanos series) http://img408.imageshack.us/i/3jk2.jpg/
-Shuts down the Beyonder and traps her inside of herself
- Stops Thors hammer by raising his hand http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9413/energy18bb3.jpg

Intelligence - where to start...
-Found the biological application of the Power Cosmic
-Created a Galactus Clone (however absurd)
-Gained Godhood/Omnipotence 3 times
-Has the knowledge stolen from the 'Oracle', from the Infinity well etc
-Galactus accepts to follow Thanos' lead against Hunger due to Thanos' understanding of inter-dimensional parasitic creatures lol
-Outsmarting the Elders of the Universe

Mind powers
-Defeated Moondragon in a mind duel
-Destroys Pips mind http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5026/energy6jy7.jpg
-Mentally enslaves the Fallen (a Herald level being)
-Destroys Drax's Mind

Technological/Scientific
-Teleportation tech (huge range)
-Forcefields capable of with standing a shot from Galactus and Omega http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5219/energy25iz7.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6706/energy31uw6.jpg
-Forcefields capable of imprisoning Hulk and Namor
-Gun capable of Imprisoning Thor with Power Gem and Warriors Madness
-Ship capable of withstanding full attack by Rigellian fleet with no damage

Fighting Skills
-Takes on most deadly mercenary Armies in the Universe on his own and wins
-Takes on Thousands of Magus' followers and wins
-Trained Gamora
-Takes on Thing and Thor together
-Takes on Power Gem wielding Warriors MAdness Thor one on one
-Punches Mar-Vell from the Moon to Earth http://img237.imageshack.us/i/85157929fi8.jpg/

Life creation
-Created Mystic Clones of himself including a Galactus Level being

Thanks to the various people who the Scans belong to - they are not mine \:\)

Feel free to add your own examples I've just put up what came to mind.

SO THANOS SKYFATHER QUALIFIED OR NOT????


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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008





I disagree with the potency of some of your examples there but acknowledge the point about him being above Herald and occasionally close to Skyfather. The problem is a respect thread is not taking into account the poorer showings or the context of how the good ones came about, the key component to Thanos' achievements tends to be his careful preperation and advance knowledge before going into a venture and that sort of Prep and daring can make anyone look good. You should also bear in mind he gambles an awful lot, against Galactus, Against Tyrant, Against the Elders he took calculated risks that didn't always turn out favorably. It is very notable he was reluctant to face Annihulus for example who despite an apparent upgrade for Annihilation had previously been utterly dimissed by Odin.
He also has been reliant on his tech a lot, whether that be an emergency teleporter or his chair for general transport. None of which do a Zeus/Odin level skyfather make....

Heralds such as the Silver Surfer have rivalled Thanos' durability many times and Thanos' firepower has never been seen to rival the Surfers upperlevels where he blasts planets apart, and for the likes of the moralistic Surfer getting to that stage is a psychological step by step process as he is ingrained to hold back which isn't so much a problem for Thanos.
True Skyfathers aren't just physically powerful but have divine lifeforces that enable them to perform actions above the Silver Surfer level, if Odin or Zeus were serious about taking on Thanos I don't imagine he could compete at all. Even perceived lower tier cosmics like The Stranger or Molecule Man operate on a level he can't really compete with and The Stranger himself is a more convincing Skyfather type figure than Thanos is.
But taking the logic furthr If yours is the formula for judging Thanos to be on Skyfather level isn't The Destroyer also skyfather then? Or Apocaylpse? Sentry? Maybe even a Full power Magneto?

I accept fully he was seen as above Herald generally (but so too was Morg initially) but on the other hand would he be a match for the Surfer who came out of Annihilation for example? I think it More realistic to say he's more 'Skyfather' now that he's dead and has apparently elevated to being Deaths consort.




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Zarko




has far greater showings than zeus and he's a skyfather


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Bootch 

Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,492


Look to me like he blasted Galactus out of his ship (or where ever they were) knocking him aways, maybe a football pitch, but hardly across a planet.
Catching Galactus off guard and knocking him over is a "skyfather" feat, then I'd like to nominate Thing and Reed Richards for title.

The whole skyfather ranking is over rated. As any character that is head of an extra-dimensional pantheon automatically qualifies. There are several comparatively weak near-Earth-based skyfathers that are not all that powerful.


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Frogger




Thanos has done a majority of the feats below but not all and with Thanos sometimes you can't be sure which he does with tech which are his own natural power. He can manipulate molecules but I don't think he can create something from nothing like Odin.

The term can also be applied to other fictions for beings in a similar class of power. Typical skyfather - level abilities include:

- Galaxy busting power
- Limited reality warping (from planetary through multi - galactic, less than universal)
- Often some type of time manipulation (timestop, time travel, etc.)
- Usually a good degree of matter/energy manipulation (such as transmutation)
- Often a high degree of psychic powers, often capable of affecting at least entire planets
- Sometimes have the ability to imbue other beings with a portion of their power
- Breaking the Law of Causality (Odin with Odinforce creating planets out of nothing)

Examples of Skyfather - level beings:

Azora, Elune, and a few others from Warcraft
Charon and Danik from Crossgen Comics
Eru Iluvatar from the Tolkienverse is be considered a low - tier skyfather
Darkseid (classic levels), Highfather, Ganthet, Shazam, Monarch, and many others from DC Comics
God - Emperor of Mankind from Warhammer 40,000 (since he lacks galaxybusting or other galaxy - effecting powers, he can be considered a low - tier skyfather.) Also the Chaos Gods and Void Dragon might qualify
Majin Dark Schneider with the Dragon Knight Lucifer, Fallen Uriel, Satan, and others from Bastard!!
Odin, Surtur, Zeus, Vishnu, Walker, and many others from Marvel Comics
Pyron from Darkstalkers
Spawn (King of Hell Arc), and many others from Image Comics
The Data Integrated Sentient Entity from The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Various gods and cosmic beings from Saint Seiya


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TheMadTitan






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CHAD


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008





    Quote:
    True Skyfathers aren't just physically powerful but have divine lifeforces that enable them to perform actions above the Silver Surfer level, if Odin or Zeus were serious about taking on Thanos I don't imagine he could compete at all. Even perceived lower tier cosmics like The Stranger or Molecule Man operate on a level he can't really compete with and The Stranger himself is a more convincing Skyfather type figure than Thanos is.


I don't want to go off topic but since when are the Molecule man and the Stranger considered to be on a powerlevel below Odin or Zues? Shouldn't the argument be whether Odin or Zues are stepping up to their level or power?



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TheMadTitan






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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008


Would have to say that he is still to me about the same range as darkseid, and a Zuras while he was the prime Eternal...

MAYBE would be at the low end showing for a Zeus/Odin of Marvel, but not a match for Odin at his peak levels, or say a Rune Thor...

His GREATEST power is his mind, which allows him to prep and use all of those nifty "toys" of his...

Straight up in a battle, both going all out...

Just cannot see him taking down likes of a Fully powered Odin, Galactus..

See him as being a UBER version of Dr Doom...

Mind, tech, magic etc... Cunning and resourcefulness!


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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:



    Quote:

      Quote:
      True Skyfathers aren't just physically powerful but have divine lifeforces that enable them to perform actions above the Silver Surfer level, if Odin or Zeus were serious about taking on Thanos I don't imagine he could compete at all. Even perceived lower tier cosmics like The Stranger or Molecule Man operate on a level he can't really compete with and The Stranger himself is a more convincing Skyfather type figure than Thanos is.



    Quote:



    Quote:
    I don't want to go off topic but since when are the Molecule man and the Stranger considered to be on a powerlevel below Odin or Zues? Shouldn't the argument be whether Odin or Zues are stepping up to their level or power?


I think Owen Reece is right up there given he's utterly owned Gods (Ares/Thor) before now and The Stranger has been seen to be well above Herald since his inception. If you've read 'Beyond' you'll get where i'm coming from.
But neither are quite Skyfather as neither has shown to be able to command the power or influence Zeus/Odin has. The Stranger has faced the Olympian Pluto before now and lost, he has never been one for socialising in cosmic circles but I have seen nothing to show me he's on a Skyfathers level.





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iTG








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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,959


1. If I wanted to be a pain I would say no because he is not the leader of a pantheon, but that is not really part of the "skyfather-level."

2. This is not a total excuse, but pretty much all of those were written by Starlin. This does not invalidate them, but raises the question to what extent other writes place him at. The skyfathers have to a degree been written by several writers over the years.

3. The skyfathers once upon a time was considered virtual cosmic beings. Now they have been watered down some in the last twenty years or so but still powerful. There current level is unknown.

4. Thanos has never demonstrated powers on his own at a level of Tyrant, Galactus, Odin, or Zeus. Beings who are considered skyfather leve.

In short, while he is close he always tends to struggle more and rely on outside sources to survive.


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Lord Majestros




Lord Majestros:
IIRC, it even said in the story that he was Thanos's "silver bullet".



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MightyMurfDog









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What?





    Quote:
    Lord Majestros:



    Quote:
    IIRC, it even said in the story that he was Thanos's "silver bullet".


Kronos didn't look above Skyfather in Cosmic Powers Unlimited. His biggest feat is creating Drax, who was a failure until his last incarnation.

By comparison, Karnilla created Durok...



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Master






    Quote:
    Ok so I know Thanos is mainly considered to be at Teambuster level on the boards but I tend to think we are selling him short has he has a lot more going for him than say WWH or Doomsday.



    Quote:
    I happen to think Thanos crosses over into the Skyfather level category, Im not saying he's up there with Odin but I do think he makes it in to the low end - heres a few reasons why (& a couple of links):



    Quote:
    Strength



    Quote:
    -Able to physically match both Thor and Thing pre-resurrection



    Quote:
    -Knocks the Champion of the Universe flying back with one punch (Earth heroes had a job to hurt him with punches)



    Quote:
    -Holds back both Hulk and Thing in Infinity Crusade



    Quote:
    http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3678/strength7qj7.jpg


He phyically matched Tyrant head on with strengh alone...


    Quote:
    Durability






    Quote:
    -Survives blasts from Omega and Galactus both top end Cosmics



    Quote:
    -Survives Blasts and physical attacks by Tyrant and Odin both High end Skyfather level beings



    Quote:
    -Absorbed the Heart of the Universe



    Quote:
    -Survived a black hole with a few cuts and bruises


Survives power of Beyonder!
Full trown Hammer throw from Thor to back of Titan's head with no problems...
Takes Full Blown hit from Magus w/IG minus Realitygem & is only somewhat dazed.
Is able to actually wade through Odin' Power...
When entering Chaos/Order's realm shows Reality Manip has minual effect on his being...


    Quote:
    Energy Projection






    Quote:
    -Helps Free in-betweener from his 'prison construct'








Destroys a someone that is EASILY Hulk level with one eyebeam blast.

Destroys Qua's shields that Hulk/Drax/Hercules/Thor/Thing/Wolverne/Cyclops/IceMan/ShHulk/WonderMan/sasquatc/Havok/Jean/vision/Rouge/Collosus/Warpath could not with Repated blows all at same time, Thanos does so easily w/one blast

Koes Morg & Terrex w/OneBlast apiece...

Destroys Planet befor ressurection when fighting Drax...


    Quote:
    Energy Manipulation



    Quote:
    -Turns a Skrull to stone



    Quote:
    - Thanos created a house from nothing (Infinity Abyss)






    Quote:
    -Shuts down the Beyonder and traps her inside of herself





He did this with his TK...


    Quote:
    Intelligence - where to start...



    Quote:
    -Found the biological application of the Power Cosmic



    Quote:
    -Created a Galactus Clone (however absurd)



    Quote:
    -Gained Godhood/Omnipotence 3 times



    Quote:
    -Has the knowledge stolen from the 'Oracle', from the Infinity well etc



    Quote:
    -Galactus accepts to follow Thanos' lead against Hunger due to Thanos' understanding of inter-dimensional parasitic creatures lol



    Quote:
    -Outsmarting the Elders of the Universe


There's lots of stuff you could add here...


    Quote:
    Mind powers



    Quote:
    -Defeated Moondragon in a mind duel






    Quote:
    -Mentally enslaves the Fallen (a Herald level being)



    Quote:
    -Destroys Drax's Mind


Shuts Beyonder down Mentally..


    Quote:
    Technological/Scientific



    Quote:
    -Teleportation tech (huge range)






    Quote:
    http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6706/energy31uw6.jpg



    Quote:
    -Forcefields capable of imprisoning Hulk and Namor



    Quote:
    -Gun capable of Imprisoning Thor with Power Gem and Warriors Madness



    Quote:
    -Ship capable of withstanding full attack by Rigellian fleet with no damage


This was the whole planet & his ship had no problems whatsoever.

Easily koed Thor with tech. SS himself has said his ship is more powerful then himself...

Easily blown up stars & shields ship that has no problem of takeing Supernova blast


    Quote:
    Fighting Skills



    Quote:
    -Takes on most deadly mercenary Armies in the Universe on his own and wins



    Quote:
    -Takes on Thousands of Magus' followers and wins



    Quote:
    -Trained Gamora



    Quote:
    -Takes on Thing and Thor together



    Quote:
    -Takes on Power Gem wielding Warriors MAdness Thor one on one






    Quote:
    Life creation



    Quote:
    -Created Mystic Clones of himself including a Galactus Level being



    Quote:
    Thanks to the various people who the Scans belong to - they are not mine \:\)



    Quote:
    Feel free to add your own examples I've just put up what came to mind.



    Quote:
    SO THANOS SKYFATHER QUALIFIED OR NOT????


There's some good ones that youmissed..



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BC





    Quote:
    Just cannot see him taking down likes of a Fully powered Odin, Galactus..


Well he can't, he needs force fields to take a blast from Galactus. However, he required no forcefields when dealing with a Gugnir wielding Odin, and he remained very competitive with him.... albeit on the losing end of the fight.





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bd2999

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    Ok so I know Thanos is mainly considered to be at Teambuster level on the boards but I tend to think we are selling him short has he has a lot more going for him than say WWH or Doomsday.



    Quote:
    I happen to think Thanos crosses over into the Skyfather level category, Im not saying he's up there with Odin but I do think he makes it in to the low end - heres a few reasons why (& a couple of links):



    Quote:
    Strength



    Quote:
    -Able to physically match both Thor and Thing pre-resurrection


Yup


    Quote:
    -Knocks the Champion of the Universe flying back with one punch (Earth heroes had a job to hurt him with punches)


Yup, although he had to win that one with his cleverness in the end, but still held his own.


    Quote:
    -Holds back both Hulk and Thing in Infinity Crusade


Yup


    Quote:
    http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3678/strength7qj7.jpg



    Quote:
    Durability






    Quote:
    -Survives blasts from Omega and Galactus both top end Cosmics



    Quote:
    -Survives Blasts and physical attacks by Tyrant and Odin both High end Skyfather level beings



    Quote:
    -Absorbed the Heart of the Universe



    Quote:
    -Survived a black hole with a few cuts and bruises


Yup


    Quote:
    Energy Projection





Not accross a planet.


    Quote:
    -Helps Free in-betweener from his 'prison construct'









    Quote:
    Energy Manipulation



    Quote:
    -Turns a Skrull to stone



    Quote:
    - Thanos created a house from nothing (Infinity Abyss)






    Quote:
    -Shuts down the Beyonder and traps her inside of herself






    Quote:
    Intelligence - where to start...



    Quote:
    -Found the biological application of the Power Cosmic



    Quote:
    -Created a Galactus Clone (however absurd)


Yeah, this was really dumb.


    Quote:
    -Gained Godhood/Omnipotence 3 times



    Quote:
    -Has the knowledge stolen from the 'Oracle', from the Infinity well etc



    Quote:
    -Galactus accepts to follow Thanos' lead against Hunger due to Thanos' understanding of inter-dimensional parasitic creatures lol


Sort of. Galactus admitted to having less experience with beings not of this universe. I think that is fine. Galactus should understand the workings of the universe and the various beings in it better than near anyone, outside of that not so much.


    Quote:
    -Outsmarting the Elders of the Universe



    Quote:
    Mind powers



    Quote:
    -Defeated Moondragon in a mind duel






    Quote:
    -Mentally enslaves the Fallen (a Herald level being)



    Quote:
    -Destroys Drax's Mind



    Quote:
    Technological/Scientific



    Quote:
    -Teleportation tech (huge range)






    Quote:
    http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6706/energy31uw6.jpg



    Quote:
    -Forcefields capable of imprisoning Hulk and Namor



    Quote:
    -Gun capable of Imprisoning Thor with Power Gem and Warriors Madness



    Quote:
    -Ship capable of withstanding full attack by Rigellian fleet with no damage



    Quote:
    Fighting Skills



    Quote:
    -Takes on most deadly mercenary Armies in the Universe on his own and wins



    Quote:
    -Takes on Thousands of Magus' followers and wins



    Quote:
    -Trained Gamora



    Quote:
    -Takes on Thing and Thor together



    Quote:
    -Takes on Power Gem wielding Warriors MAdness Thor one on one






    Quote:
    Life creation



    Quote:
    -Created Mystic Clones of himself including a Galactus Level being



    Quote:
    Thanks to the various people who the Scans belong to - they are not mine \:\)



    Quote:
    Feel free to add your own examples I've just put up what came to mind.



    Quote:
    SO THANOS SKYFATHER QUALIFIED OR NOT????


I would say so.






Look Raist bunnies...
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Olympian





Whereas Thanos got pierced by Wolverine, even with the minimum Infinite Gauntlet power, which by definition should be well above the other Sky Fathers.

Both are embarrassing, regardless.


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Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008






A lot of the feats you listed are within "herald" reach and some herald have even better. Anyway I think those class are so subjective they boderline mean nothing.


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What?




Thanos' innate power is great, but he supplements his power by tapping into his tech, as he did in battle with Odin.


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Ragnarok




Odin is enhanced by Gungnir, Galactus by Taa 2, Celestials by their armor, etc. The origins of power are irrelevant.

That being said, I wouldn't put Thanos at skyfather levels until we get a clearer understanding of the power ups he received after The End. During his all to short solo series he shoed some pretty impressive abilities, but his levels are still rather vague. He's certainly a top tier teambuster, boardering on low end skyfather.


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What?




It matters because Thanos does not always access, or have access to, his technology. We're not talking about origin. We're talking about an additional resource, something he occasionally employs to boost his power.

Just as Odin is not always absorbing the power of Asgard, Thanos is not always drawing upon his tech.


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Lord Majestros




Lord Majestros:
Kronos is a living embodiment of time and his powers are WAY beyond those of any any other Eternal, including The Prime Eternal or Thanos.  While he doesn't have any grand feats, the power he has is above that of skyfather.  However, the main point that I was making was that Drax was specifically made to kill Thanos and Thanos being killed by him isn't a reflection on Thano's power level.



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What?





    Quote:
    Kronos is a living embodiment of time and his powers are WAY beyond those of any any other Eternal, including The Prime Eternal or Thanos.


No, he's not the embodiment of time, and he's not an abstract being. He's an eternal who got caught up in his own experiment and merged with a minuscule portion of the universe. He is a being very much like Maelstrom became after battling the Avengers, when he became hyper-enlarged.

There's no evidence that Kronos is more powerful than Odin. In fact, he can't seem to interact with the universe directly, or it taxes him too greatly to do so. Kronos greatly depleted his power battling Moondragon and Drax, and needed to use both of their power to fix Drax's brain damage.



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