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Frogger




Or in a world with the JLA big Seven and the JSA would he have been captured and cured by now ?


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Daveym 

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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



It depends on which context you mean, I think he could only make it longterm if he was given a power-up, or at least written to a higher level.
He's a good enough character to exist anywhere and be succesful but if taken into context within that universes inherent structure he would suffer in terms of physical comparison as the toptier there is prodigiously powerful and provenly getting moreso every year.
If this was the late 80s or Early 90s he'd fit in perfectly in my view as the powerlevels were more muted back then, Superman could lift mountains but planetary masses were out of the question for example so the Hulk would be reasonably competitive to one degree or another and would give anyone a fight, right now though even the likes of Power Girl can catch city sized spaceships while the Hulk struggles with a mere mountain if you take the recent Secret Wars retelling as canon. He doesn't have the depth or frequency of showings to convince he's on a physical keel with the likes of Superman & his numerous peers so his longterm survival in a world of Supermen and Magical characters is going to be in doubt when he's put into contest against them. He's just too limited in what he can do & physically take.

I've no need to go into his lack of any superspeed (an obvious major problem) and likewise his invulnerability is nowhere near Supermans or Doomsdays for example, he's in line with Mongul or Kalibak in terms of Power and unfortunatly they're both fairly low down in terms of threat level to the toptier these days with even Green Lantern comfortably beating both in the past.
Like them he can be stopped by something as banal as a gas explosion and like them he has no answer to the speed, mobility and physical power a Wonder Woman or superman bring to bear. He'd need to be written to a higher level altogether to make a real physical impact in this environment and survive on his own terms.














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Maximum Man


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,268




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Primetime




Amazing. You keep mentioning a gas explosion without mentioning the explosion being nuclear level and totally not mentioning Superman being KOed by an normal gas station explosion. We have Superman being out quicked and tossed by a gorilla and Dr. Light KOing him, but you can only harp on Hulk's "low" showings and exaggerate how low they are on top of that.

You keep mentioning a "mere mountain" while ignoring the movement of tectonic plates (continent level).

Hulk doesn't need to be written at any other level than he is now to compete and be a major force. We see this when he fights Sentry, when he fights Gladiator, when he fights Hyperion, when he fights Thor, Zom, the Cosmic Order, Onslaught, Juggernaut, a double powered Abomination, etc. Hulk is easily in line with Konvikt with the potential to go beyond.


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Primetime




He would have made it about as well as he has made it in the Marvel Universe.


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Daniel Craig




Hulk


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Bootch 

Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,492


nt


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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



He's saying that if the Hulk was brought under the DC Umbarella then he'd automatically be in line with the toptier - I.E. have a degree of superspeed and greater strength/Invulnerability to be truly competitive.
At DC the layout is radically different to the MU, just as it is with Dragonball the Bar is set much much higher physically and the Hulk or Namor would be small beer therein. By the same token if the Hulk or Namor were dropped into the Malibu or Darkhorse universes he'd be top dog near enough!
In the DCU however there are so many with Superman level power he's a near nuisance almost - if even a Green Lantern can maul Kalibak or Mongul what chance does the all but identical Hulk have? He'd need to be more in line with Doomsday to be a true peer but even then a Brick is Just a Brick....







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Bootch 

Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,492


nt


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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:
    Amazing. You keep mentioning a gas explosion without mentioning the explosion being nuclear level and totally not mentioning Superman being KOed by an normal gas station explosion. We have Superman being out quicked and tossed by a gorilla and Dr. Light KOing him, but you can only harp on Hulk's "low" showings and exaggerate how low they are on top of that.

I keep mentioning Gas explosions because he has a solid history of being troubled by them. That's not me making stuff up it's right there throughout his History!
I've told you before - there is a WORLD of difference between Superman being Koed but once by a Gas explosion fighting Doomsday (Inarguably the single toughest opponent he's ever fought barring superboy-Prime) and of seeing the Hulk being Koed by one fighting, uh.... Machine Man. Or Iron man. \(euh\)

And how on earth do you extrapolate Dr Lights creative use of his power as a low showing? Or this Gorilla example of which I have no idea what you're talking about!
Superman has precious few samples of a genuinely crap showings, the Hulk by contrast has oodles.... he just isn't seen as that consistent overall unlike Superman and no way is he as impervious as Doomsday or a Daxamite.

And I won't dwell on the Hulk Vs. the Pet Dragon either....


    Quote:
    You keep mentioning a "mere mountain" while ignoring the movement of tectonic plates (continent level).

Yes, Because I have no, i mean NO, idea how big a feat that really is. See previous posts to you where I explain why i never bring up similar hard to gauge feats such as Superman holding Black Holes (JLA #77) or him shoving a proto solar system into space (Trinity #2) or Him shatteering the barriers of Time/Space when fighting Kal-L.

And in any case pulling tectonic plates is not halfway as impressive as being a substantial part in pulling a planetary body, several times over.


    Quote:
    Hulk doesn't need to be written at any other level than he is now to compete and be a major force. We see this when he fights Sentry, when he fights Gladiator, when he fights Hyperion, when he fights Thor, Zom, the Cosmic Order, Onslaught, Juggernaut, a double powered Abomination, etc. Hulk is easily in line with Konvikt with the potential to go beyond.

Really?! Is that why he has to get a power-up to get past the Namor/Hercules/Thor level he normally maxes out at?
You're looking at a character who can get major problems from Wolverine, Doc Samson, Abomination or Iron Man and none of those would last 30 seconds against a Konvikt or Doomsday type Uber-Brick who can tear the JLA apart and fight Superman for hours non-stop.
I have never seen Namor/Thor/the Hulk or Thor display planetary level strength/durability the way Superman, Majestic or possibly even the Dragonball universe has, and not all the fan-waffle in the world is going to change that fundamental disparity between differing characters and universes as it is just a simple fact Some chracters are meant to be that powerful and always have been.
They've had over 45 year to impress their strength/Durability level onto us, and that level is nothing like Superman & Co's proven track record these last 15+ years, or just ten in majestics case.

As i keep saying you are more than welcome to your own ideas on these characters, but at no time have you even come close to supplying a realistic argument for the Hulk or Thors physical superiority over a Superman,Dragonball or Mr Majstic powerhouse. Because the argument just isn't there.
If there's one thing that is apparent it's the wide gap between what obsessives like you want the character to be and what he actually is.





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Daveym 

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Sure, If The Tick was known for his physical power then yes he'd be not far off Supermans level, like Etrigan, if brought into the DCU I would think.

The Hulk is unquestionably in the toptier of the MU earth heroes, that's all you need to understand. Captain Marvel only became Supermans peer when DC bought him and began featuring him in mainstream stories, back in the Fawcett series' his powerlevel arguably did not measure up to Supermans in the late Golden-Age and Silver-Age, similarly when DC bought Icon and Mr Majestic they too were moved in line with Supermans powerlevel apparently. When or If Marvelman is introduced to the MU he almost certainly won't be stronger than Thor etc. It's just the way these things are done.

If the Hulk wasn't given such a boost then he'd slide away into the 2nd or 3rd tier lower echelons of the DCU with Solomon Grundy and Kalibak for company... there is no two ways about it, he'd need to be beefed up to avoid that fate. \(fear\)



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Nucleon









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Maximum Man


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,268



    Quote:



    Quote:
    He's saying that if the Hulk was brought under the DC Umbarella then he'd automatically be in line with the toptier - I.E. have a degree of superspeed and greater strength/Invulnerability to be truly competitive.



    Quote:
    At DC the layout is radically different to the MU, just as it is with Dragonball the Bar is set much much higher physically and the Hulk or Namor would be small beer therein. By the same token if the Hulk or Namor were dropped into the Malibu or Darkhorse universes he'd be top dog near enough!



    Quote:
    In the DCU however there are so many with Superman level power he's a near nuisance almost - if even a Green Lantern can maul Kalibak or Mongul what chance does the all but identical Hulk have? He'd need to be more in line with Doomsday to be a true peer but even then a Brick is Just a Brick....



    Quote:



    Quote:


Max Man: If the Hulk were intended to be a star character, he would definitely get pumped up a bit. Especially more speed, and faster reflexes. DC seems to have a pension for their super-strong characters to have above average speed.




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Nucleon





How dare you compare these miserable, pathetic palookas with the Hulk? They are mediocre to middle-of-the-road thugs, punching bags with appendages whereas the Hulk is the brick to end all bricks. This is laughable tripe - no surprise you don't convince anyone. You want to compare the Hulk to a DC character? Why not take his carbon copy - Doomsday?

If any such Solomon Grundy can rock Superman, the Hulk can absolutely pulverise him. The Hulk can get stronger and tougher than Superman because that's what he does. Any Superman. Any character. And that's how it works, since the beginning.

End of story.



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Daveym 

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Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:



    Quote:
    How dare you compare these miserable, pathetic palookas with the Hulk? They are mediocre to middle-of-the-road thugs, punching bags with appendages whereas the Hulk is the brick to end all bricks. This is laughable tripe - no surprise you don't convince anyone. You want to compare the Hulk to a DC character? Why not take his carbon copy - Doomsday?



    Quote:
    If Solomon Grundy can rock Superman, the Hulk can absolutely pulverise him. The Hulk can get stronger and tougher than Superman because that's what he does.



    Quote:
    End of story.



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smallfry




This is where the thinking gets messed up with you DC guys- Hulk and Superman are and have always been peers strength/power-wise... DC and Marvel just have different ways of showing feats, Marvel tries for a more realistic approach (while still being in the spirit of the medium) whereas DC tends towards a Loony Toons over the top approach. It's not a difference in the character's individual abilities, but in the way the two companies represent those abilities. Hulk would not need any kind of "beef up" to hold the same rank in the DCU that he holds in the Marvel U- the difference in company style and approach would put Hulk at Doomsday levels instantly without him actually being any tougher than he is now at Marvel. And as for Hulk being cured by now in the DCU- I'd have to say that Banner, upon his arrival, would almost immediately be considered the smartest person in the DCU. He hasn't cured himself yet, and no one at DC has any better shot at it.


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Primetime





    Quote:
    I keep mentioning Gas explosions because he has a solid history of being troubled by them. That's not me making stuff up it's right there throughout his History!


No, it's you making things up. Again, you ignore the nuclear level of the explosion that was felt in other countries. You ignore the numerous surviving of nuclear blasts.


    Quote:
    I've told you before - there is a WORLD of difference between Superman beaing Koed but once by a Gas explosion fighting Doomsday (Inarguably the single toughest opponent he's ever fought barring superboy-Prime) and of seeing the Hulk being Koed by one fighting.... Machine Man. Or Iron man. \(euh\)


Superman was KOed in the early parts of that fight and it amazes me that you can't fathom the difference between a gas station explosion and the explosion of the high yield fuel of a space ship; an explosion felt in other nations. Wow.


    Quote:
    And how on earth do you extrapolate Dr Lights use of his power as a low showing? Or this Gorilla example of which I have no idea what you're talking about!


How do you extrapolate an explosion of a nuclear level blast as a low showing and of course, your selective memory wipes out the actual post I made on the JLA issue where a Gorilla that Batman is able to toss and flip is able to slip Superman's punch and toss him. Are you not also familiar with Superman straining to lift a helicopter a few years ago? If was like you, I would define Superman based solely on that the way that you fanboyishly define Marvel characters solely based on the lowest showings you can find.


    Quote:
    Superman has precious few samples of a genuinely crap showings, the Hulk by contrast has oodles.... he just isn't seen as that consistent overall unlike Superman.


Wonder Woman has "oodles" as well as Orion, yet your DC bias doesn't acknowledge. Plus, you fail to acknowledge the dynamic nature of Hulk and you tend to overlook how he does against ubers. Thus, you never mention Onslaught, Drax, Zom, The Cosmic Order, Juggernaut, Sentry, Gladiator, Hyperion, The Super Adaptoid, Thor, The Destroyer, Fing Fang Foom, etc.


    Quote:
    And I won't dwell on the Hulk Vs. the Pet Dragon either....


I won't dwell on the gorilla. How about dwelling of fing fang foom's fire that Hulk ignored or Torch's nova blast?


    Quote:

      Quote:
      You keep mentioning a "mere mountain" while ignoring the movement of tectonic plates (continent level).



    Quote:
    Yes, Because I have no, i mean NO, idea how big a feat that really is. See previous posts to you where I explain why i never bring up similar hard to gauge feats such as Superman holding Black Holes (JLA #77) or him shoving a proto solar system into space (Trinity #2) or Him shatteering the barriers of Time/Space when fighting Kal-L.


Apples and oranges. Hulk moved an object that falls within a certain size range. It's like moving a mountain. We know that a mountain has a certain size range. Same for a moon. Tectonic plates have the same and one that devastates a planet larger than Earth must be pretty big. You are in denial.


    Quote:
    And in any case pulling tectonic plates is not halfway as impressive as being a substantial part in pulling a planetary body, several times over.


Actually, someone calculated the size of a large plate to be not much smaller than moon size and when you consider the 'dumbbell fly' motion Hulk uses to move two plates (one in each arm), it would equate to strength to actually body press many multiple times that weight.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Hulk doesn't need to be written at any other level than he is now to compete and be a major force. We see this when he fights Sentry, when he fights Gladiator, when he fights Hyperion, when he fights Thor, Zom, the Cosmic Order, Onslaught, Juggernaut, a double powered Abomination, etc. Hulk is easily in line with Konvikt with the potential to go beyond.



    Quote:
    Really?! Is that why he has to get a power-up to get past the Namor/Hercules/Thor level he normally maxes out at?


As much as you ignore it, the recent Loeb issue shows Hulk overpowering a wet Namor. And history shows that Hulk does not "max out" at Thor and Hercules level. He often fights them at their level, but that is not his max. We have seen him surpass that level. He was past that level against Onslaught. He was heading toward Destroyer level against The Destroyer. We can go on. Plus, why do you practice the strawman of ignoring Mjolnir when analyzing Thor? Hulk has stalemated a Mjolnir wielding Thor. Mjolnir has more destructive power than Superman.


    Quote:
    You're looking at a character who can get major problems from Wolverine, Doc Samson or Iron Man and none of those would last 30 seconds against a Konvikt or Doomsday type brick who can tear the JLA apart and fight Superman for hours non-stop.


But it is a character who has stalemate the Super Adaptiod with the power of numerous avengers, has smashed Onslaught, has KOed members of the Cosmic Order, has stalemated Sentry, has defeated Gladiator, has stalemated Juggernaut, has handled The Avengers, etc.


    Quote:
    I have never seen Namor/Thor/the Hulk or Thor display planetary level strength the way Superman has, and not all the fan-waffle in the world is going to change that fundamental fact. They've had over 45 year to impress their strength/Durability level onto us, and that level is nothing like Superman proven track record these last 15+ years.


Drax has ripped the core out of a star. That Surpasses anything Superman has done. That Drax destroyed a planet fighting Thanos. Merged Hulk has stalemated that very Drax and Thor has beaten him.

You have not seen Doomsday display planetary level strength. Same for Captain Marvel, Black Adam, Orion, Darkseid, The General, Zod, etc.


    Quote:
    As i keep saying you are more than welcome to your own ideas on these characters, but at no time have you even come close to supplying a realistic argument for the Hulk or Thors physical superiority over a Supermaan or Mr Majstic powerhouse. The argument just isn't there.


It has been done over and over yet you have selective memory and selective reading.


    Quote:
    If there's one thing apparent it's the wide gap between what obsessives like you want the character to be and what he actually is.


Don't even try it. You have been and still are an obsessive DC fanboy and a specific Hulk detractor and it is clear that you are going to attempt to finagle DC superiority even when it means closing your eyes to evidence that is right in front of you and putting up scans that are irrelevant to the discussions.


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Primetime




Yep. Mongul may be on Abomination's level. Hulk routinely surpasses Abomination and has pulverized him.


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Nucleon





.... Meaning "feats" of course have been presented to you repeatedly, a futile attempt since at that point you usually bolt in the opposite way or blatantly ignore the subject. It has become the laughing stuff of these boards.

And anyway the "proofs" you provide are always (ALWAYS) beside the point, since you present us scans of you DC faves beating something big, or green, over which we are supposed to super-impose the Hulk in our eyes' mind instead.

This alone would be ridiculous enough to start a riot but you don't stop there. You aslo take your faves' highest feats and then put them against the oppo's lowest ones, which is the oldest, most blatant and primitive form of bias to the point of being comical, yet you consider it the most efficient method for debating.

Do you think we are that stupid so we won't notice? How old are you? How stupid do you think we are?

Finally, even if you did it right, feats in general, and feat against the environment in particular, only have measuring value for the hopeless fanboy, who after that "assemble" their idealized heroes with a collage of these improbable excesses. Inside the buisness they all know them to be much sound and fury, signifiying nothing, but necessary to keep the infantile portion of their public interested.



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:
    This is where the thinking gets messed up with you DC guys- Hulk and Superman are and have always been peers strength/power-wise... DC and Marvel just have different ways of showing feats, Marvel tries for a more realistic approach (while still being in the spirit of the medium) whereas DC tends towards a Loony Toons over the top approach. It's not a difference in the character's individual abilities, but in the way the two companies represent those abilities. Hulk would not need any kind of "beef up" to hold the same rank in the DCU that he holds in the Marvel U- the difference in company style and approach would put Hulk at Doomsday levels instantly without him actually being any tougher than he is now at Marvel. And as for Hulk being cured by now in the DCU- I'd have to say that Banner, upon his arrival, would almost immediately be considered the smartest person in the DCU. He hasn't cured himself yet, and no one at DC has any better shot at it.


I'm afraid the only time the Hulk or Thor has been a physical peer to Superman is in the late 80s/early 90s. This is what i keep trying to get across, when he starts out after the '86 reboot he is at his single ever lowest powerlevel since he was created in 1938 yet he's still a clear physical match for Thor or the Hulk.
Then after Doomsday and the Eradicator reviving him he begins a path of gradual power-ups and refinements that see him go from being more or less a mountain mover in 1987 to playing a substatial role in Moving moons/Planets....
By contrast no one can argue that Thor, Namor or the Hulk has had any serious power-up over the years. That's one side of the problem, but really the sheer scale in the difference between showings and powerlevels between the two companies is now so pronounced I can see no realistic argument for saying Hercules/Namor is any match for a Superman or Power Girl. Why is it no one argues the Hulk or Thor can match Vegeta for example?!

And don't dare accuse DC of having stupid physics, I've seen more stupid physics in the MU over the last three years than in the last three at DC. Basicall think of anything the Red Hulk did in his first few issues, the Hulks 'Footstomp of Doom', Hercules/Atlas lifting the heavens, there's a lot of stupid stuff about in the MU...



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Primetime





    Quote:



    Quote:

      Quote:
      This is where the thinking gets messed up with you DC guys- Hulk and Superman are and have always been peers strength/power-wise... DC and Marvel just have different ways of showing feats, Marvel tries for a more realistic approach (while still being in the spirit of the medium) whereas DC tends towards a Loony Toons over the top approach. It's not a difference in the character's individual abilities, but in the way the two companies represent those abilities. Hulk would not need any kind of "beef up" to hold the same rank in the DCU that he holds in the Marvel U- the difference in company style and approach would put Hulk at Doomsday levels instantly without him actually being any tougher than he is now at Marvel. And as for Hulk being cured by now in the DCU- I'd have to say that Banner, upon his arrival, would almost immediately be considered the smartest person in the DCU. He hasn't cured himself yet, and no one at DC has any better shot at it.



    Quote:
    I'm afraid the only time the Hulk or Thor has been a physical peer to Superman is in the late 80s/early 90s. This is what i keep trying to get across, when he starts out after the '86 reboot he is at his single ever lowest powerlevel since he was created in 1938 yet he's still a clear physical match for Thor or the Hulk.


You are trying to get this opinion across, yet you fail to prove it.


    Quote:
    Then after Doomsday and the Eradicator reviving him he begins a path of gradual power-ups and refinements that see him go from being more or less a mountain mover in 1987 to playing a substatial role in Moving moons/Planets....



    Quote:
    By contrast no one can argue that Thor, Namor or the Hulk has had any serious power-up over the years. That's one side of the problem, but really the sheer scale in the difference between showings and powerlevels between the two companies is now so pronounced I can see no realistic argument for saying Hercules/Namor is any match for a Superman or Power Girl. Why is it no one argues the Hulk or Thor can match Vegeta for example?!


No such sheer scale in the difference exists, but I can see how it would seem that way when you key on favorites greatest feats and on the lowest feats of the characters you disdain.


    Quote:
    And don't dare accuse DC of having stupid physics, I've seen more stupid physics in the MU over the last three years than in the last three at DC. Basicall think of anything the Red Hulk did in his first few issues, the Hulks 'Footstomp of Doom', Hercules/Atlas lifting the heavens, there's a lot of stupid stuff about in the MU...


And you refuse to acknowledge those as feats. So I guess we can do the same with the planet moving. When it comes to Marvel, you have thrown in things like, "obscure issues", (wasn't the pet dragon issue obscure also? Wasn't the GL and Superman Earth moving flashback an obscure issue?). Any excuse you can to deny a feat.




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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

      Quote:
      I keep mentioning Gas explosions because he has a solid history of being troubled by them. That's not me making stuff up it's right there throughout his History!



    Quote:
    No, it's you making things up. Again, you ignore the nuclear level of the explosion that was felt in other countries. You ignore the numerous surviving of nuclear blasts.


Okay Primetime, I'm not going down this route with you again where I dilligently answer every challenge and query put to me and you unable to reply adequately call me every insult under the sun...

I want you to look at the Hulks history and tell me he does not have a trend for being KOed by Gas Explosions. I want you to look at #237 of his own mag, Iron Man 132, the recent Mighty Avengers and even the Hulk/Fin Fang Foom one-shot where he voices his fear of the Military's weaponry. You can also look at the recent Hulk/X-men one-shot where he is roasted by the pet dragon... You accuse me of only looking at low showings yet all you want to look at is the absolute best ones. Somewhere between those two points lies the truth, and that is my point.

I have lost count of the sheer number of times we have had this conversation, where you whinge about the DCU toptier being no stronger than MU toptier yet supply absolutely no substantive argument to go with it. I'm tired of it.

I repeat - over 45 years of continuity and yet nothing that shows Thor or the Hulk as on the level of a Superman/Majestic type powerhouse.
It's like arguing the Hulk is stronger than Nefaria, Kurse or Sentry, it really is that dumb and illogical.... If the guys biggest feat to date in his entire 45 years is he busts a gut just keeping a Mountain(range) from imploding on him how in the world can that square with near planet movers/wreckers like Superman/Majestic? It Does not Compute.







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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

      Quote:
      And don't dare accuse DC of having stupid physics, I've seen more stupid physics in the MU over the last three years than in the last three at DC. Basicall think of anything the Red Hulk did in his first few issues, the Hulks 'Footstomp of Doom', Hercules/Atlas lifting the heavens, there's a lot of stupid stuff about in the MU...



    Quote:
    And you refuse to acknowledge those as feats. So I guess we can do the same with the planet moving. When it comes to Marvel, you have thrown in things like, "obscure issues", (wasn't the pet dragon issue obscure also? Wasn't the GL and Superman Earth moving flashback an obscure issue?). Any excuse you can to deny a feat.


Have you any undserstanding of the word 'Context'? I have never denied the Hulks 'Footstomp of Doom' or the Red Hulks jump from the moon as a feat, show me where i have why don't you? I'd hate to say you're "making stuff up". (Ho-Hum). \:\-

However Both of those are stupid silly feats, that is all i, and others it must be said, have done. And that is the point i made to Smallfry. So what is your problem in life Primetime?




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Primetime




You deny Herc's feat by making up something about the axis mundi "helping" him (something neither stated nor implied). You have made every excuse in the book to discredit the foot stomping feat (which is really a foot 'stepping' feat). You claimed the tectonic feat to be him closing a "small crack". You won't accept Herc's pulling of Manhattan, his holding the city together (you keep saying he failed when it was the chain that broke). You won't accept Gladiator destroying a planet with punches because it is an "obscure issue", but you keep referencing X-Men/Hulk (an obscure one shot crossover).

I mean seriously, your dishonest efforts are a sign of of something wrong.


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Primetime





    Quote:
    Okay Primetime, I'm not going down this route with you again where I dilligently answer every challenge and query put to me and you unable to reply adequately call me every insult under the sun...


Says the man calling folks "obsessives". Selective memory at its best.



    Quote:
    I have lost count of the sheer number of times we have had this conversation, where you whinge about the DCU toptier being no stronger than MU toptier yet supply absolutely no substantive argument to go with it. I'm tired of it.


Yes I have. You just pretend not to see it.


    Quote:
    I repeat - over 45 years of continuity and yet nothing that shows Thor or the Hulk as on the level of a Superman/Majestic type powerhouse.


Yes there is. Stop being so dishonest.


    Quote:
    It's like arguing the Hulk is stronger than Nefaria, Kurse or Sentry, it really is that dumb and illogical.... If the guys biggest feat to date in his entire 45 years is he busts a gut just keeping a Mountain(range) from imploding on him how in the world can that square with near planet movers/wreckers like Superman/Majestic? It Does not Compute.


Why would Hulk be weaker than Sentry and Nefaria. They have no bigger strength feats nor strength feats as big. Hulk stalemated Sentry. Seems that this proves that you go by your own personal perception that has no bases in evidence. Everyone is stronger than Hulk because you don't like the character.

That's bigger that Doomsday's biggest feat. Bigger than Orion's biggest feat. Bigger that Black Adam's biggest feat. Same for Darkseid, The General, Captain Marvel, etc.

The tectonic plate feat was bigger. The smashing of the asteroid was bigger than the planet moving feats.

Can you describe a means by which Hulk can move a planet since he cannot fly and tell name one other non-flyer has moved a planet?

Now him voicing fear of military is evidence? LOL Can you be specific with the Iron Man issue. We know that Tony KOed Hulk by directing all his power and he knocked himself out in the process. Can you point out the "gas" part. Same for the Machine Man issue. I'm sure you have scans. All that you have substantiated is the nuclear level gas blast. I want to know specifically where the other gas blasts are.






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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:
    You deny Herc's feat by making up something about the axis mundi "helping" him (something neither stated nor implied). You have made every excuse in the book to discredit the foot stomping feat (which is really a foot 'stepping' feat). You claimed the tectonic feat to be him closing a "small crack". You won't accept Herc's pulling of Manhattan, his holding the city together (you keep saying he failed when it was the chain that broke). You won't accept Gladiator destroying a planet with punches because it is an "obscure issue", but you keep referencing X-Men/Hulk (an obscure one shot crossover).



    Quote:
    I mean seriously, your dishonest efforts are a sign of of something wrong.


*Sigh*, The something wrong is You.

1] The Axis Mundi is explained in Hercules as he tries to stop the Amazons from stealing its power, the Axis is a metaphysical place that divides the domains of Zeus, Neptune & Pluto. There-in sits Atlas as a prisoner. At no time is it said he HAS to keep the heavens held up and indeed when the Amazons free him the sky didn't exactly fall in after all... \:\-
Clearly common-sense says if Hercules really was that strong he'd have smoked the Hulk every time out - He can't even heft a mere Mountain(range) after all.... and neither could Hercules pull manhattan together despite a considerable time to do it in.

2] The Tectonic Plate feat is unquantifiable. I am not psychic and neither are you, give it up, the information just isn't there to measure it.

3] Gladiators Planet destroying feat is right there in print but how many writers do you think referenced it in their portrayal? Why Should Gladiator be struggling to lift mere debris in the War of Kings aftermath? It is but one showing that is not typical of his average since, that is the point.

Don't you dare keep accusing me of singling out low showings, Lieing or Hypocrisy when you are guilty of only wanting the best stuff to be considered as the Norm.
What good is it if the Hulk takes a Novablast once but subsequent issues have him Koed or injured by Gastank explosions, Pet Dragons and Adamantium Shrapnel, or less.



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

      Quote:
      I repeat - over 45 years of continuity and yet nothing that shows Thor or the Hulk as on the level of a Superman/Majestic type powerhouse.



    Quote:
    Yes there is. Stop being so dishonest.


Finally, is this Primetime about to divulge Proof to back up his statements? \(woot\) (woot)(woot)(woot)(woot)(woot)(woot)

Then please do show us at last Primetime. I obviously look forward to your evidence at last.

Here's the sort of stuff i'm going on about by the way, this is a world away from John Byrne's Superman....

(Gotcha)


















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Liam Gallagher's Unibrow


Location: Mega-City One
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008





    Quote:
    Drax has ripped the core out of a star. That Surpasses anything Superman has done. That Drax destroyed a planet fighting Thanos. Merged Hulk has stalemated that very Drax and Thor has beaten him.


Just to further this.... Drax actually had not one but two substantial power-ups in-between the star and planet busting feats and being stalemated by the Hulk (power-up #1 being the physical boost he got as dumb Drax and power up #2 being the Power Gem).

The intelligent Drax that had the uber feats was explicitly weaker than classic She Hulk who has been treated as a joke by the Hulk and his ilk consistently.... interesting how that always gets ignored when the "Marvel top tiers aren't planetary in strength" crew come around.





Cheers.





Chancellor Liam, Dean of the Forgotten Green Academy of Gamma Sciences
"Hulk would have to be in a life or death struggle for a good 25+ years to BEGIN to start to surpass [Thor]." - MjolnirsPower
I Fought the Law and the Law Won... A Judge Dredd Respect Thread
http://herochat.com/index.php?topic=2435.0
(work in progress)
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Fifthchild


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,474




    Quote:



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        I keep mentioning Gas explosions because he has a solid history of being troubled by them. That's not me making stuff up it's right there throughout his History!

      Quote:

        Quote:
        No, it's you making things up. Again, you ignore the nuclear level of the explosion that was felt in other countries. You ignore the numerous surviving of nuclear blasts.



    Quote:
    Okay Primetime, I'm not going down this route with you again where I dilligently answer every challenge and query put to me and you unable to reply adequately call me every insult under the sun...



    Quote:
    I want you to look at the Hulks history and tell me he does not have a trend for being KOed by Gas Explosions. I want you to look at #237 of his own mag, Iron Man 132, the recent Mighty Avengers and even the Hulk/Fin Fang Foom one-shot where he voices his fear of the Military's weaponry. You can also look at the recent Hulk/X-men one-shot where he is roasted by the pet dragon... You accuse me of only looking at low showings yet all you want to look at is the absolute best ones. Somewhere between those two points lies the truth, and that is my point.



    Quote:
    I have lost count of the sheer number of times we have had this conversation, where you whinge about the DCU toptier being no stronger than MU toptier yet supply absolutely no substantive argument to go with it. I'm tired of it.


Ummmm you just snipped his entire post. Basically because you are unable to counter his arguments i suspect. Its not the first time.


    Quote:
    I repeat - over 45 years of continuity and yet nothing that shows Thor or the Hulk as on the level of a Superman/Majestic type powerhouse.



    Quote:
    It's like arguing the Hulk is stronger than Nefaria, Kurse or Sentry, it really is that dumb and illogical.... If the guys biggest feat to date in his entire 45 years is he busts a gut just keeping a Mountain(range) from imploding on him how in the world can that square with near planet movers/wreckers like Superman/Majestic? It Does not Compute.


Moving a planet is not a feat of strength for one thing and not necessarily a greater feat for another. All of this ignores that even your precious current post Loeb Superman still not only struggles but maxes out and even fails to lift mountain size objects such as that alien ship from Superman Beyond. Its not like Superman or any of his peers like Powergirl etc are portrayed as being able to lift or move anything smaller than the Earth easily. But let me go into Daveym mode for a second * The grey Hulk of course smashed an asteroid TWICE the size of Earth effortlessly while Superman struggles to move a simple moon! Imagine then the power disparity between a much more powerful GREEN Hulk and Superman then! \(rasta\) *
hh





His Holiness The Pope
The Church of Hulk
St Jones Church, New Mexico
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Fifthchild


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 9,474




    Quote:



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        I repeat - over 45 years of continuity and yet nothing that shows Thor or the Hulk as on the level of a Superman/Majestic type powerhouse.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        Yes there is. Stop being so dishonest.



    Quote:
    Finally, is this Primetime about to divulge Proof to back up his statements? \(woot\) (woot)(woot)(woot)(woot)(woot)(woot)



    Quote:
    Then please do show us at last Primetime. I obviously look forward to your evidence at last.



    Quote:
    Here's the sort of stuff i'm going on about by the way, this is a world away from John Byrne's Superman....



    Quote:
    (Gotcha)


Dont you get tired of this? Its like with the Hulk vs nukes thing where LGU answered your "put up and shutup" taunts with pages of similar scans and evidence to show Hulk as nukeproof and you tried to ignore the whole thing and when that doesnt work you bring out your 20 year old Maestro scans. Its really annoying to hear you pull this whole "Nobody is man enough to face me in open argument" thing when if anybody does take the time to you run away and hide. Ive seen Primetime counter all your arguments about this before and you just stop responding when it doesnt look good for you. A few months later and we are back to this again.

Oh and btw that Majestic planet moving thing is not that impressive since the text states that the planets are moving torturously slowly. F = MA and all that. Its not necessarily something i would put beyond IM really.
hh






His Holiness The Pope
The Church of Hulk
St Jones Church, New Mexico
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.5.6 on Windows Vista
Primetime




Why do you post Superman pounding the moon and nothing happening beyond what J'onn supposedly anticipated would happen? Blue Marvel did that.

Why do you keep posting where Black Racer's energy release scars the moon?

When is that Majestic feat. Isn't it during his pre-DC days?

And isn't that an obscure issue of Superman and GL's flashback?

Post Hulk destroying an asteroid 2X Earth's size.

Post Gladiator destroying a planet with punches.

Post Drax ripping the core out of a star.

Post Drax and Thanos destroying a planet.

Post Terrax splitting a planet.


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