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Kadaj




Pretend Darkseid's daddy escapes from the Source Wall once more... (not a gauntlet unless you think he's powerful enough)

9. Galactus (Mighty, Hungry, and/or Starving - whichever is the most fair fight)
8. Odin (Marvel or DC or both)
7. Doomsday (highest depiction ever)
6. Darkseid (not dead, without the "cannot-kill-your-parents" clause)
5. Imperiex Prime
4. Superboy-Prime
3. The Destroyer Armor (animated by Colonel Preston Scott Case, or whoever you choose to make the fight fairer if needed)
2. The Anti-Monitor (whichever form is most fair)
1. Mxyzptlk
0. The Spectre (pick your poison: Jim, Hal, Crispus, or hostless)


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JES


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 1,319




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Sinister





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    Pretend Darkseid's daddy escapes from the Source Wall once more... (not a gauntlet unless you think he's powerful enough)



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    9. Galactus (Mighty, Hungry, and/or Starving - whichever is the most fair fight)

I'd say a running on tank half full Galactus would be an equivalent.


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    8. Odin (Marvel or DC or both)

Not on his best day in Asgard with all his toys and enchanted stuff.


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    7. Doomsday (highest depiction ever)[/quote
    Not sure which one this is anymore. But on average Yuga 10/10 times.


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      6. Darkseid (not dead, without the "cannot-kill-your-parents" clause)

    Still Daddy!


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      5. Imperiex Prime

    whether it was a gauntlet or not; it ended here anyway imo. Splitting hairs maybe but like the diff. between last version of Thanos b4 death and high end skyfather level.


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      4. Superboy-Prime

    No idea of his versions


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      3. The Destroyer Armor (animated by Colonel Preston Scott Case, or whoever you choose to make the fight fairer if needed)

    See fight with Odin only alot worse for Odins tinker toy


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      2. The Anti-Monitor (whichever form is most fair)

    Could go into the whole circular logic of the flash infinite mass punch or whatever eventually did in the AM but, crapola aside I'd edge AM


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      1. Mxyzptlk

    Not sure how it would go with this one. Still waiting for a non alice in wonderland showing of Mxy.


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      0. The Spectre (pick your poison: Jim, Hal, Crispus, or hostless)

    No idea




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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:
    Pretend Darkseid's daddy escapes from the Source Wall once more... (not a gauntlet unless you think he's powerful enough)

This is Guesswork as we barely scratched the surface of how Powerful Khan was.
He was I think still weak after escaping his imprisonment as a Promethean giant and was seen draining planets dry for additional energy, he could manipulate and shut off The Source itself rendering Highfather impotent and we know that as one of the earliest New Gods he may well have been the most powerful. Other New Gods of a similar vintage were more uber than the Modern Gods and as i recall Orion himself had to face another escaped God in #14(?) of his series and managed to turn it away using the Anti-Life formula - they were seriously powerful...

End of the day Khan had both Apokalips & New Genesis on their knees, unable to oppose him, their saving grace was that Khans obsession with entering The Source was so overwhelming he just wasn't interested in much else and his arrogance blinded him to how insignificant he really was to the power of The Source....


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    9. Galactus (Mighty, Hungry, and/or Starving - whichever is the most fair fight)

It's my guess they'd be pretty even up to a point if Galactus were full power. Hard to call who could win this, though if Khan was able to lock off access to The Source I might favor him to be able to do something similar to Galactus' power. Really can't say for sure but I lean to Khan very slightly for that reasoning.


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    8. Odin (Marvel or DC or both)

I think it not fair to say concerning DCs Odin as data is sketchy and contradictory, there was the suggestion Odin might be considerably powerful due to strong linkage to the Old Gods and it's hard to interperet what that might mean in practise but against Marvels Odin I would favor Khan strongly. The Silver age Odin would be a more direct match perhaps but the problem is he didn't have great stamina and rarely faced anyone on his own level, definitly not a Monster like Khan.
Khans sheer power was very well put across as he escaped his Asteroid imprisonment and that sort of power was more reminiscent of Surturs first appearance in Simonsons Run. A cut above Odins. And we know Odin really struggled against Surtur.


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    7. Doomsday (highest depiction ever)

Doomsday could conceivably beat him if he got the opening but the odds are extremely long in that ever happening!


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    6. Darkseid (not dead, without the "cannot-kill-your-parents" clause)

I don't think the 'can't kill him cuz he's my Dad' aspect had much to do with it, clearly Khan was simply the more powerful. Just his approach drained Apokalips' energy and dimmed the firepits and he did in hours to New Genesis what Darkseid has been trying to do for countless millenia.... it's not a good match at all.


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    5. Imperiex Prime

Like Galactus it's hard to say but I can see it at least 50/50 and as with Galactus Khan could well pack a nasty sting for the KO.


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    4. Superboy-Prime

Prime has only a small chance i feel, Khan stopped Lar Gand with barely a Nod and while Prime is technically physical power incarnate Khan operates on numerous levels he can't compete with... I'm unsure Prime can withstand the various attacks a being on this level can employ.


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    3. The Destroyer Armor (animated by Colonel Preston Scott Case, or whoever you choose to make the fight fairer if needed)

Given The Destroyer was never a match for Odin and Khans power goes beyond the physical I don't think he'd worry about this doomsday weopon...


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    2. The Anti-Monitor (whichever form is most fair)

I'd say Anti-Monitor is way too powerful, apart from the weak version in the Sinestro wars. The Monitors power was to break down all positive matter, even a New God wouldn't be a problem IMO.


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    1. Mxyzptlk

At a guess I'd say Khan if he was confronted, if the Imp strikes from the Blue then he may well autwin it. It's like The Spectre - you can take him if it's one sided ambush, otherwse he's able to resist and fight you off.


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    0. The Spectre (pick your poison: Jim, Hal, Crispus, or hostless)

Ummm, same as what happened to Darkseid when The Spectre killed him maybe? Honestly though The Spectre should beat him, way too uber.















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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,975





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    He was I think still weak after escaping his imprisonment as a Promethean giant and was seen draining planets dry for additional energy, he could manipulate and shut off The Source itself rendering Highfather impotent and we know that as one of the earliest New Gods he may well have been the most powerful. Other New Gods of a similar vintage were more uber than the Modern Gods and as i recall Orion himself had to face another escaped God in #14(?) of his series and managed to turn it away using the Anti-Life formula - they were seriously powerful...


So were the New gods a case of the lower the generational number the more powerful they were? First generation would be the most powerful with second being weaker and the third even weaker then that? Is that the impression I am getting?


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    It's my guess they'd be pretty even up to a point if Galactus were full power. Hard to call who could win this, though if Khan was able to lock off access to The Source I might favor him to be able to do something similar to Galactus' power. Really can't say for sure but I lean to Khan very slightly for that reasoning.


One difference I would state is Galactus's powers tend to be internal Beings like Highfather who get their powers from the source strike me as being more external like Juggernaut. So while that would work on Highfather it would not work on Galactus.


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      8. Odin (Marvel or DC or both)



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    I think it not fair to say concerning DCs Odin as data is sketchy and contradictory, there was the suggestion Odin might be considerably powerful due to strong linkage to the Old Gods and it's hard to interperet what that might mean in practise but against Marvels Odin I would favor Khan strongly. The Silver age Odin would be a more direct match perhaps but the problem is he didn't have great stamina and rarely faced anyone on his own level, definitly not a Monster like Khan.


What is this supposed connection Earth Odin had to the Old gods you have mentioned?


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    Khans sheer power was very well put across as he escaped his Asteroid imprisonment and that sort of power was more reminiscent of Surturs first appearance in Simonsons Run. A cut above Odins. And we know Odin really struggled against Surtur.


Surtur is a mixed bag. In his earliest appearences he comes across as powerful, but not on par with Odin. In Simonson's runs he appears to be a bit more powerful, but part of that is attributed his proximity of the Flame of Destruction and how it was time for Ragnarok. Later appearances have him about on par with Odin.



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      6. Darkseid (not dead, without the "cannot-kill-your-parents" clause)



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    I don't think the 'can't kill him cuz he's my Dad' aspect had much to do with it, clearly Khan was simply the more powerful. Just his approach drained Apokalips' energy and dimmed the firepits and he did in hours to New Genesis what Darkseid has been trying to do for countless millenia.... it's not a good match at all.


Agreed, didn't Yuga Khan tear through the defenses of both planets like they were wet paper. That I something I am not aware either Orion or Darkseid ever accomplishing.


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    Given The Destroyer was never a match for Odin and Khans power goes beyond the physical I don't think he'd worry about this doomsday weopon...


In what ways was Khan's power beyond the physical?


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      1. Mxyzptlk



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    At a guess I'd say Khan if he was confronted, if the Imp strikes from the Blue then he may well autwin it. It's like The Spectre - you can take him if it's one sided ambush, otherwse he's able to resist and fight you off.


Why would Khan win? As far as I know the Imps are pretty much untouchable. Emperor Joker was able to take down all of the New gods with ease.

thanks




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Kadaj




Yuga wasn't included in the takedown of the New gods by Emperor Joker - he was trapped in the Source Wall (again, the doofus).

Mxy, while seemingly omnipotent in some appearances, is not unstoppable. A no-sold his attacks in Bizarro Comics. Superman also knocked him out inadvertantly in the same book by hitting one of Steel's machines in his general direction (it hit him on the noggin).

While these characters aren't Mxy, Qwisp was punched out by Jakeem Thunder, there was a 5-D imp trapped in a 6-D bottle in Morrison's run of JLA, and the Thunderbolt was dismissed by the Spectre during Day of Vengeance.

In alternate stuff, Mxy was killed by the Phantom Zone Projector Pre-Crisis, Gog blasted a hole through him in The Kingdom, and the Ultimator of the Tenth Dimension was too powerful for any 5-D imps to defeat straight up.

In conclusion, Mxy may very well take down Yuga but a case could be made for the strongest New god ever.


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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

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      He was I think still weak after escaping his imprisonment as a Promethean giant and was seen draining planets dry for additional energy, he could manipulate and shut off The Source itself rendering Highfather impotent and we know that as one of the earliest New Gods he may well have been the most powerful. Other New Gods of a similar vintage were more uber than the Modern Gods and as i recall Orion himself had to face another escaped God in #14(?) of his series and managed to turn it away using the Anti-Life formula - they were seriously powerful...



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    So were the New gods a case of the lower the generational number the more powerful they were? First generation would be the most powerful with second being weaker and the third even weaker then that? Is that the impression I am getting?

It's looking like that yes, I'm not 100% clear on it myself but looking at the fact Darkseid is probobly the most powerful of the current crop of them the logic would be that the older original generation were more powerful by right of their undiluted lineage to the Old Gods. Obviously there aren't any of that older generation around (that I know of) as Darkseid stamped his authority hard, even getting rid of his mother etc.... and Khan was almost certainly elite in terms of status & power to begin with anyway.


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      It's my guess they'd be pretty even up to a point if Galactus were full power. Hard to call who could win this, though if Khan was able to lock off access to The Source I might favor him to be able to do something similar to Galactus' power. Really can't say for sure but I lean to Khan very slightly for that reasoning.



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    One difference I would state is Galactus's powers tend to be internal Beings like Highfather who get their powers from the source strike me as being more external like Juggernaut. So while that would work on Highfather it would not work on Galactus.

I fail to see why not. Khan didn't block Highfather as I recall he blocked The Source-wall that Communicated with Highfather.
Highfather doesn't summon or control the Source after all, The Source summons him.
If Khan can somehow interfere with that sort of power I can see a real case for him being able to affect Galactus direct, for another point his energy absorbtion seemed to be vastly more extreme than Galactus' is... He just had to pass a planet and it expired!


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        8. Odin (Marvel or DC or both)

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        I think it not fair to say concerning DCs Odin as data is sketchy and contradictory, there was the suggestion Odin might be considerably powerful due to strong linkage to the Old Gods and it's hard to interperet what that might mean in practise but against Marvels Odin I would favor Khan strongly. The Silver age Odin would be a more direct match perhaps but the problem is he didn't have great stamina and rarely faced anyone on his own level, definitly not a Monster like Khan.



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    What is this supposed connection Earth Odin had to the Old gods you have mentioned?

DC Odin, It was in John Byrnes Fourth World series which featured Thor/Odin and revealed while Darkseid was perfectly willing to war on other Pantheons and take their power he had deliberatly stayed well away from Asgard as it (or perhaps more directly Odin) still had strong ties to the Old Gods and was very very powerful. I don't think the subject was ever delved into further however.


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      Khans sheer power was very well put across as he escaped his Asteroid imprisonment and that sort of power was more reminiscent of Surturs first appearance in Simonsons Run. A cut above Odins. And we know Odin really struggled against Surtur.



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    Surtur is a mixed bag. In his earliest appearences he comes across as powerful, but not on par with Odin. In Simonson's runs he appears to be a bit more powerful, but part of that is attributed his proximity of the Flame of Destruction and how it was time for Ragnarok. Later appearances have him about on par with Odin.

His earliest Walt Simonson appearances are exactly what i'm getting at.
A being so powerful it is a palpable threat to the universe, even Odin is nervous, Khan only appeared for about Five issues but what we get is enough to convince he is a very serious force to be reckoned with, indeed I recall reading the original plan was for a much more expansive story that would have spread across the DCU, sales and editorial apathy did not support taking it further however.


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        6. Darkseid (not dead, without the "cannot-kill-your-parents" clause)

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        I don't think the 'can't kill him cuz he's my Dad' aspect had much to do with it, clearly Khan was simply the more powerful. Just his approach drained Apokalips' energy and dimmed the firepits and he did in hours to New Genesis what Darkseid has been trying to do for countless millenia.... it's not a good match at all.



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    Agreed, didn't Yuga Khan tear through the defenses of both planets like they were wet paper. That I something I am not aware either Orion or Darkseid ever accomplishing.



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      Given The Destroyer was never a match for Odin and Khans power goes beyond the physical I don't think he'd worry about this doomsday weopon...



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    In what ways was Khan's power beyond the physical?

Apart from draining Lifeforce on a planetary scale he had a degree of Cosmic awareness, like any true Skyfather level being his power is multi-purpose.


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        1. Mxyzptlk

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        At a guess I'd say Khan if he was confronted, if the Imp strikes from the Blue then he may well autowin it. It's like The Spectre - you can take him if it's one sided ambush, otherwse he's able to resist and fight you off.



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    Why would Khan win? As far as I know the Imps are pretty much untouchable. Emperor Joker was able to take down all of the New gods with ease.


If you read Day Of Veangeance The Spectre stomped Jakeem Thunders Imp fairly easy, About the most powerful Imp out there is Mxyzptlk yet he too has been shown to be vulnerable to certain attacks - a good example being his depowering after the Day of Veangeance affected Magic and led to his apparent death in Adventures of Superman #646.
Elsewhere in Countdown an alternate of Zatanna was able to temporarily shut off his abilities, If he can be affected like this and bearing in mind Khans power is pretty extreme I can see a case for Khan being able to deal with him. The caveat as i mentioned is one involving the exact circumstances: If Mxyzptlk strikes unannounced Khan likely has zero defence, If the Imp however announces himself upfront it's a somewhat different game. So I think it not out of the question ata all Mxyzptlk can be beaten or more likely driven into a retreat, he provenly isn't very courageous or able where opponents as powerful and evil as Khan are concerned.












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BC





    Quote:
    for another point his energy absorbtion seemed to be vastly more extreme than Galactus' is... He just had to pass a planet and it expired!


From what I recall, it seemed to be a lot less extreme than Galactus'. Yuga only seemed to feed on the living beings on the planet, then destroyed it. Galactus rips the "life force" out of every single molecule comprising a planet, the "life force" of the beings residing on the planet are inconsequential by comparison and it in no way sates Galactus.


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Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

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      for another point his energy absorbtion seemed to be vastly more extreme than Galactus' is... He just had to pass a planet and it expired!



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    From what I recall, it seemed to be a lot less extreme than Galactus'. Yuga only seemed to feed on the living beings on the planet, then destroyed it. Galactus rips the "life force" out of every single molecule comprising a planet, the "life force" of the beings residing on the planet are inconsequential by comparison and it in no way sates Galactus.


Well if you take in consideration that Galactus need an elemental converter to drink his shake while Khan doesn't it pretty much cancel out. That and we don't know if Khan was only limiting himself to the life force of beings residing on the planet. Maybe the planet was destroyed as a result of that drain. We don't know why the planets were exploding to begin with only that Khan was responsible.




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makkari1


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,492



    Quote:
    Well if you take in consideration that Galactus need an elemental converter to drink his shake while Khan doesn't it pretty much cancel out. That and we don't know if Khan was only limiting himself to the life force of beings residing on the planet. Maybe the planet was destroyed as a result of that drain. We don't know why the planets were exploding to begin with only that Khan was responsible.


Actually Galactus does not need the converter because he is quite capable of doing it on his own. Galactus uses the converter because it is more efficient than he is and Galactus doesn't want to waste his own personal energy ripping the planet apart. In fact Galactus uses machines to do his work when clearly he doesn't need to but it is more efficient for him to do so. For instance he is very capable of flying and traveling through space without a ship but why waste energy on such a menial task.  


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Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

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      Well if you take in consideration that Galactus need an elemental converter to drink his shake while Khan doesn't it pretty much cancel out. That and we don't know if Khan was only limiting himself to the life force of beings residing on the planet. Maybe the planet was destroyed as a result of that drain. We don't know why the planets were exploding to begin with only that Khan was responsible.



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    Actually Galactus does not need the converter because he is quite capable of doing it on his own. Galactus uses the converter because it is more efficient than he is and Galactus doesn't want to waste his own personal energy ripping the planet apart. In fact Galactus uses machines to do his work when clearly he doesn't need to but it is more efficient for him to do so. For instance he is very capable of flying and traveling through space without a ship but why waste energy on such a menial task.  


I suppose you have a point. Seeing how he manage his energy reserves he sure as hell need to save it as much as possible...



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BC




The prime example was the Skrull throne-world, which Galactus devoured without the use of his elemental converter. 

The elemental converter is akin to a fork for Galactus, nice to have but completely unnecessary for eating.    



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Daveym 

Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



The usual presentation (and i accept there will be variations) is that if he uses the convertor the planet is thoroughly drained of its energy but the lifeforms are left alive. This happened to Zenn-La in the early 80s Silver Surfer one-shot for example and in Marvel-two-in-one #100.
If he forgoes to convertor then it gets very destructive and messy as he has to physically shatter the planet to get the best out of it, there are variations on this but that was the general rule.

Yuga Khan used an all but identical ethic but unlike Galactus he needed no machinery, he just drained the planets he passed dry.














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BC




Galactus has destroyed planets with the elemental converter, it's just a matter if he is picking the bones of the chicken, as it were.

Zenn La is one of the FEW planets where the population has survived the process without fleeing, and in that instance it was apparently intentional. Remember, that Zenn La was a creation of Galactus in the first place.




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