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Author
Superboy-Prime


Member Since: Sun Nov 30, 2008
Posts: 1,517


For those who might have missed it,The Definitive Write Up on "Hulk vs Hercules".

And I want to thank everyone who has enjoyed this and all my blogs. I have been getting a ton of your requests, just be patient because I have two truly great battles in the works that will be fun reads!


http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/01/hulk-vs-hercules.html




Comic legend, Roy Thomas and I write the best blog based on comics, toys and cartoons on the net. Check it out at Hero-Envy.blogspot.com
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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,959


has Marvel Ares had any battles of note? All I remember ever reading or seeing were one to two page curb stomps against him. Even with his strength enhanced or as an anti-hero I cannot remember him having any memorable battles. IIRC, didn't Hercules watch almost bored and have a casually conversation with Thor while Thor battled the thrice-strength enhanced Ares? I think Skaar had a skirmish with Ares during the Wolverine/Romulus storyline. He did fairly well against Nate Grey, but later it was implied Nate may have let Ares win and I cannot see what stopped Nate from telekineticly throwing Ares across the city. Has he had anything impressive over the years?


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bd2999

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:
    has Marvel Ares had any battles of note? All I remember ever reading or seeing were one to two page curb stomps against him. Even with his strength enhanced or as an anti-hero I cannot remember him having any memorable battles. IIRC, didn't Hercules watch almost bored and have a casually conversation with Thor while Thor battled the thrice-strength enhanced Ares? I think Skaar had a skirmish with Ares during the Wolverine/Romulus storyline. He did fairly well against Nate Grey, but later it was implied Nate may have let Ares win and I cannot see what stopped Nate from telekineticly throwing Ares across the city. Has he had anything impressive over the years?


He beat A-bomb pretty badily in their meeting. That is his best showing that I remember offhand. For a god of war he is not that impressive at all. Which is depressing for me. Not that I love the guy but he should be the most militant and combat capable god around. Instead, he is really second tier if not third tier.




Look Raist bunnies...
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Nucleon





... I do like the character - always have. And when Bendis took it out, I had hopes for him, hopes that were half-satisfied: He became a very interesting character indeed, but yes, he lacks that terrifying edge. As he is he is a fair match for Wolverine.

He should be a better fighter than Thor, and as strong as him. He should be able to rally everybody around him in a fighting frenzy. He should have a "named" weapon and armor. He should also be one of Marvel's toughest characters to kill.

The most beautiful part of it is, that is still possible.



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Brizelli





Why should he be a better fighter than Thor? The Asgardians are known for being a WARRIOR RACE. Thor has centuries of Battle hardened experience and has fought greater foes,in power and strength, and won, through the years. Thor is the model for being the Warrior's warrior. Olympians, Herc included, are generally portrayed as "floating around in the clouds, drinking, and chasing women/men. Asgardians are somewhere kickin someones butt. Fighting is what they do. Herc, and Hulk for that matter, should be just another walk in the park for Thor. Seriously.



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Nucleon






    Quote:
    Why should he be a better fighter than Thor?


Because he is god of War? What should be the perks of a god of War?


    Quote:
    The Asgardians are known for being a WARRIOR RACE. Thor has centuries of Battle hardened experience and has fought greater foes,in power and strength, and won, through the years. Thor is the model for being the Warrior's warrior. Olympians, Herc included, are generally portrayed as "floating around in the clouds, drinking, and chasing women/men. Asgardians are somewhere kickin someones butt. Fighting is what they do.


Well, the ancient Greek were quite a rowdy people too; they conquered huge tracts of land and revolutionized warfare. However - and where I agree with you - Ares was somewhat regarded with near-disdain, as if he was a savage, the Greeks prefering the martial science of Athena. However, when the Roman era came, Mars became a top-god, higher rhan Minerva, and under his "guidance" one of the largest, longest-lasting empire was born.


    Quote:
    Herc, and Hulk for that matter, should be just another walk in the park for Thor. Seriously.


Herc? No. Herc is a god too - althought by the back door. And a god of strength, no less.



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Rehzon


Location: Red Forest, Chernobyl
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

      Quote:
      has Marvel Ares had any battles of note? All I remember ever reading or seeing were one to two page curb stomps against him. Even with his strength enhanced or as an anti-hero I cannot remember him having any memorable battles. IIRC, didn't Hercules watch almost bored and have a casually conversation with Thor while Thor battled the thrice-strength enhanced Ares? I think Skaar had a skirmish with Ares during the Wolverine/Romulus storyline. He did fairly well against Nate Grey, but later it was implied Nate may have let Ares win and I cannot see what stopped Nate from telekineticly throwing Ares across the city. Has he had anything impressive over the years?



    Quote:
    He beat A-bomb pretty badily in their meeting. That is his best showing that I remember offhand. For a god of war he is not that impressive at all. Which is depressing for me. Not that I love the guy but he should be the most militant and combat capable god around. Instead, he is really second tier if not third tier.


Maybe him and Athena should switch attributes then. \:\-\)








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bd2999

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:

    ... I do like the character - always have. And when Bendis took it out, I had hopes for him, hopes that were half-satisfied: He became a very interesting character indeed, but yes, he lacks that terrifying edge. As he is he is a fair match for Wolverine.



    Quote:
    He should be a better fighter than Thor, and as strong as him. He should be able to rally everybody around him in a fighting frenzy. He should have a "named" weapon and armor. He should also be one of Marvel's toughest characters to kill.



    Quote:
    The most beautiful part of it is, that is still possible.


I suppose. It is one of the issues with war gods in general. They should be strong, but in the case of Thor within the Aesir pantheon he was regarded as their greatest warrior and was the strongest among them, aside from his son but that is not for now. Given his heritage it makes sense that he should be stronger. Not all gods are created equal though. But if war is your domain you should be good in a fight one would think.




Look Raist bunnies...
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THUNDERER!!!




Everybody hated and despised Ares, he was a bastard, he was all that was wrong and bad in war and Athena was all that was good and just in it.


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Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:
    Everybody hated and despised Ares, he was a bastard, he was all that was wrong and bad in war and Athena was all that was good and just in it.


...if by "poor" you mean, crude, ugly, and savage then ok, but if you meant non-efficient than that's less ok. Contrarily to Athena he wasn't a strategist, but that doesn't mean he was handling a axe like a moron. Ares was all about killing and the ugly side of war while Athena was about strategy. Being loved and being good at what you do isn't the same.



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Nucleon






    Quote:
    I suppose. It is one of the issues with war gods in general. They should be strong, but in the case of Thor within the Aesir pantheon he was regarded as their greatest warrior and was the strongest among them, aside from his son but that is not for now. Given his heritage it makes sense that he should be stronger. Not all gods are created equal though.


Oh, I do agree, but in Ares' case (or more precisely, Mars), we're talking about a major concept for a comic character, a classic's classic if I may say so. I am ready to give Thor greater overall power (that is, in energy projection and weather manipulation, making him a more complete character), but Ares should have equivalent, althought different, perks.


    Quote:
    But if war is your domain you should be good in a fight one would think.


Well, yeah! at least equal to Wolverine, if not the Gamoras or the Chang-Shis. And in strength, he should definitely be on par with the Wonder Men, Namors and She-Hulks - Solid class 90-95.




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THUNDERER!!!




The Entire Aesir Pantheon were War Gods and that tittle was held by like at least 4 of them, Thor in some dictionary's is labled a god of war, not too mention a god of Strength! And no Magni was not a god of strength he was given that by Marvel, either way Thor is and should be Stronger, Thor was the Only god who strength was associated with in the Norse Pantheon, not even Vidar, Marvel made him a strength god as well, but he was just another god of war.


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bd2999

Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



    Quote:


      Quote:
      Everybody hated and despised Ares, he was a bastard, he was all that was wrong and bad in war and Athena was all that was good and just in it.



    Quote:
    ...if by "poor" you mean, crude, ugly, and savage then ok, but if you meant non-efficient than that's less ok. Contrarily to Athena he wasn't a strategist, but that doesn't mean he was handling a axe like a moron. Ares was all about killing and the ugly side of war while Athena was about strategy. Being loved and being good at what you do isn't the same.


I think that difference is good but I think Ares should have some ability with strategy and should be an expert on battle tactics of all kinds. Which they sort of have shown before but I do wish he seemed more threatening than he was.




Look Raist bunnies...
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Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:

      Quote:


        Quote:
        Everybody hated and despised Ares, he was a bastard, he was all that was wrong and bad in war and Athena was all that was good and just in it.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        ...if by "poor" you mean, crude, ugly, and savage then ok, but if you meant non-efficient than that's less ok. Contrarily to Athena he wasn't a strategist, but that doesn't mean he was handling a axe like a moron. Ares was all about killing and the ugly side of war while Athena was about strategy. Being loved and being good at what you do isn't the same.



    Quote:
    I think that difference is good but I think Ares should have some ability with strategy and should be an expert on battle tactics of all kinds. Which they sort of have shown before but I do wish he seemed more threatening than he was.


I agree too. What's the point of your own clan deferring to you as the "war guy" if you aren't anything special in regarding war to them? What's the point if your battle skills are second to even the gods of beauty, music, and meteo?





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Nucleon






    Quote:
    The Entire Aesir Pantheon were War Gods and that tittle was held by like at least 4 of them, Thor in some dictionary's is labled a god of war, not too mention a god of Strength! And no Magni was not a god of strength he was given that by Marvel, either way Thor is and should be Stronger, Thor was the Only god who strength was associated with in the Norse Pantheon, not even Vidar, Marvel made him a strength god as well, but he was just another god of war.


... And no, I don't believe Thor is, nor should be as strong as bona fide gods of strength, such as Hercules and Magni (which means "strong"). Thor and Ares should have A- strength, not A+, and shine by other means than mundane strength feats (energy for Thor and martial expertise for Ares, for exemple).

I don't believe in characters that encompasses all others of their kind, in all domains, both from a conceptual and amateur-driven point of view. Thus, Thor is stronger than Odin, even thought the later surpasses the former in overall power.



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Doc Boomstick




Thor used to be listed as a class 95er while Herc was a class 100. Even if that isn't try now, if you average all the handbooks together than Herc would still have a slight edge, no?


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THUNDERER!!!






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THUNDERER!!!




Who was being discussed not Herc.


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seeker


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,959



    Quote:
    The Entire Aesir Pantheon were War Gods and that tittle was held by like at least 4 of them, Thor in some dictionary's is labled a god of war, not too mention a god of Strength! And no Magni was not a god of strength he was given that by Marvel, either way Thor is and should be Stronger, Thor was the Only god who strength was associated with in the Norse Pantheon, not even Vidar, Marvel made him a strength god as well, but he was just another god of war.


Magni is in a sense a god of strength since in one myth Thor was trapped under something or another and Magi, who was only a few days old, was the only god strong enough to free Thor. The implication being Magni was stronger than him.

IIRC, in another myth Vidar was stated to be second to Thor in strength. I think Vidar was more associated with vengence. Anyway, he should be close to Thor in strength.


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Doc Boomstick




Ah, my bad. I do think that Ares is a little weaker than he should be though. As the god of war whose chief power is really just strength and whose main activity is being an enemy of Hercules, you'd think he'd be a little closer in strength. I really don't even think he's up to Thing level on most days. I would personally like to have him portrayed with some additional yet subtle godly abilities, much as how Thor has weather powers even without the hammer.

As for comparing the two, I suppose you could say that Ares is the son of a skyfather and another Olympian whereas Thor has a skyfather and elder god as parents, so it makes sense that Thor would be more powerful if you are equating pantheons.


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THUNDERER!!!




I really dislike being called out on stuff I fail to mention, really didnt think I had to mention Mangni lifting the leg, yes all the Gods were amazed, I know and yes Vidar was only second in Strength because Tyr had sacrificed an arm.

Oh and when I said I dislike being called out it has mote to do with me being upset with myself and not you bro, everytime I have a feeling that I should add some detail, I dont than somebody corrects me with facts I already know, lol!

Still with all the facts aside, niether Vidar or Magni are labled actual gods of Strength but Thor.


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Olympian




only one that symbolizes the act of war that the Greek culture frowned upon. Under the Romans, Ares now renamed Mars was the most beloved after God Jupiter.


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Olympian




Because you are on the guy as if he owe you money and a pair of jeans.

The character was used most of the time as a villain for Thor and Hercules. That means that 90% of the time - unless it was a major villain who could also attack the likes of odin - which he can`t, he would lose.

Therefore in those days there was no reason to write the character as more able to do than what he did. However in some cases, bad writting was indeed appearant, that or simply lack of commin ground between characters, one of such examples is Thor yaking on him wth his strength trippled up, without any kind of outside circumstances with it when he struggles with Ulik for daily measure.

Even since Oeming gave him new life, as an anti hero, at Marvel the character only had one major dissapointed loss and not because it was a loss on itself but because of how it went down: against WWH during the event with the same name.

There has to be other characters who have done much less for you to argue about, man. Let those jeans go.


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Olympian




Do you walk around with a God of Wars tier list to rank him as that unimpressive for a "God of War"?

He beat up A-Bomb. He walked through time like nothing, twice, brought a building down with a single arm swing, managed to take punches from an all out Sentry and cut his body, was winning against Moonstar until we learned that a higher ranked Goddess gave her an "anti Ares" power up, gave Hercules a great skilled fight, made a squad of Avengers and Fury`s little own army (post CW) run when he showed up, overloaded Rogue and had gambit shit bricks, fought Miaboshi..

He did also impressive stuff before. He gave Namor a pretty good fight underwater (first meeting) and during Olympus Siege, Namor had to use Cap`s shield to get the definite edge. In both brief encounters with Balder that he has had, it was inconclusive. He took control of Masterson`s body and will and used him against the Avengers. When Thor went awol in his warrior madness days he had a better showing against the Thunderer than Pluto.

For a guy who was a villain 90% of the time, the character got better stuff than casually mentioned.


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Olympian




In classic myth, and this is something often overlooked by casual readers, Ares is among the fastest Gods after Hermes. This was showcased pretty well in "Immortals", for example.


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Olympian




He was after all easily stronger than his father as a whelp.


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Olympian




So I guess he is at least above Logan for now \:p


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THUNDERER!!!




That he felled his foes at frightening speeds! Mythology is so inconsistant though, but I thought Apollo was the second fastest? But I know i've heard about Ares as well tgough.


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THUNDERER!!!




And no he was not a God of Strength, but obviously he would have attained that tittle.


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THUNDERER!!!




Still though that was in the eyes of mortals, when was he ever impressive to his fellow gods? I know Zeus Taught Apollo a lesson for over stepping his boundries, but who has ever challenged or feared Ares?


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THUNDERER!!!






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