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Author
JES




nt


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 4.0; on Windows XP
JES




NT


Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 4.0; on Windows XP
JES





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Zabu Write-up.pdf
Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 4.0; on Windows XP
Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008



The DC stats for the T-Rex were already given in the third edition book. It was:

DEX 4 STR 8 BODY 9
INT 1 WILL 2 MIND 2
INFL 2 AURA 0 SPIRIT 2

Powers: claw 9, running 5.

Your T-Rex can move up to 104 tons as an automatic action while it itself only weight about 6 tons. The DC version made it so it could automatically lift it's own weight, but not near to 20 times more.



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JES




Well, without getting into another scale argument, I would point out that an 8 – 10 ton T. rex would have easily been well in the 25-50 ton STR class, at 11 APs, and while I might be generous tipping him into the early 50-plus category at 12 – yes, because it fits better, relatively - this is not out of the question.

First of all, it’s worth mentioning that while the MEGS AP scores for animals might seem reasonable in and among themselves, since they more or less adhere to the actual AP scale, they totally fail when placed relative against the human characters. I’m sorry – Batman is not in the same STR category as a horse, or a gorilla, and he’s not stronger than a lion or a tiger. Animals are far stronger for weight than humans – any one hundred pound chimp is far stronger than a two hundred pound human – a thousand pound elk will sprint up a sheer cliff like a thirty-pound jackrabbit. And T. rex had a body cavity the size of an elephant, but with a far more powerful build and sprinter’s legs like an ostrich. If a heavyweight fighter weighing 220 lbs can punch upwards of 1200 lbs, consider what kind of forces could be generated by an animal upwards of ten tons, legs like a road runner, designed to hit prey head on.

Which brings us to the business end – the bite. Scaled up Estimates based on comparative bites of Alligators - that can bite for up to a ton - have given T. rex a bite force estimate of up to 8 tons. However, the closely related Crocodile, eclipses is cousin the Alligator’s bite force with a measured bite of 3 tons from a one-ton individual. Considering that the structure of a T. rex jaw was far more robust, with even larger muscle attachment points than even the crocodile – AND weighed 8 tons – with fragmentary specimens suggesting individuals that weighted 12 tons or more, with 20 ton ‘record holders’ possible – well, the AP score looks a little more reasonable.


Then throw in the fact that related species of similar size routinely preyed upon 100 ton sauropods that they would have likely dragged and moved as necessary.

But as I've said before, over 9 or 10 APS - or over Class 10 or IN(40) throw the actual weight scale out the window.



Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 4.0; on Windows XP
Would be Watcher


Location: Canada
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008




    Quote:
    Well, without getting into another scale argument, I would point out that an 8 – 10 ton T. rex would have easily been well in the 25-50 ton STR class, at 11 APs, and while I might be generous tipping him into the early 50-plus category at 12 – yes, because it fits better, relatively - this is not out of the question.

I think you fail to grasp the mechanic of the game. 8 APs isn't a limit to what can be lifted. It's the limit of what can be lifted as an automatic action as opposed to a dice action. Sure an 8 Aps T-Rex could possibly move 25-50 tons if he was to push his strength by an average roll (a roll of 11 on 2 ten sided dice yield 2 RAPs for an 8EV vs 8RV) but there is no way he would ever be casual. By the way, T-Rex were not 10 tons monsters. Few were above 6 tons and then not even by much. Your T-Rex could possibly lift 24 Aps (400K tons or the equivalent of 4 USS Enterprise class aircraft carrier approx) if he pushes it enough. That's beyond stupid. To be honest, the 8 Ap version that could lift up to 16 Aps in an "action" setting is already pushing it beyond suspension of disbelief many fold. There is absolutely no need to boost them. No rational ones at least.


    Quote:
    First of all, it’s worth mentioning that while the MEGS AP scores for animals might seem reasonable in and among themselves, since they more or less adhere to the actual AP scale, they totally fail when placed relative against the human characters. I’m sorry – Batman is not in the same STR category as a horse, or a gorilla, and he’s not stronger than a lion or a tiger. Animals are far stronger for weight than humans – any one hundred pound chimp is far stronger than a two hundred pound human – a thousand pound elk will sprint up a sheer cliff like a thirty-pound jackrabbit. And T. rex had a body cavity the size of an elephant, but with a far more powerful build and sprinter’s legs like an ostrich. If a heavyweight fighter weighing 220 lbs can punch upwards of 1200 lbs, consider what kind of forces could be generated by an animal upwards of ten tons, legs like a road runner, designed to hit prey head on.


Batman stats carry the comic book genre with them. In a comics, yes, Batman would be a possible match for a lot of animals that should not be in any real settings. That being said, if we go that road, we might as well throw the entire game away. Heck, all of the comic book industry as well. In comics, Batman can kick Hulk or Darkseid and give them pain (Can possibly double his MA stats to replace for AV, EV or RV, that's 18 or 20 APs depending on the edition). A bear or a Gorilla? Please...


    Quote:
    Which brings us to the business end – the bite. Scaled up Estimates based on comparative bites of Alligators - that can bite for up to a ton - have given T. rex a bite force estimate of up to 8 tons. However, the closely related Crocodile, eclipses is cousin the Alligator’s bite force with a measured bite of 3 tons from a one-ton individual. Considering that the structure of a T. rex jaw was far more robust, with even larger muscle attachment points than even the crocodile – AND weighed 8 tons – with fragmentary specimens suggesting individuals that weighted 12 tons or more, with 20 ton ‘record holders’ possible – well, the AP score looks a little more reasonable.


Bite power isn't strength in the sense the game mechanic work. The claw power emulate that because the T-Rex was build to have a powerful bite but the rest of his body wasn't so gifted. According to the info I found on that site, "A team at the Tyrrell museum has calculated T. rex's bite power at 200,000 newtons, enough for lifting a tractor-trailer". 200 000 newtons convert to near 45 000 lbs or 20 tons ( 10 Aps). You could argue a 10 ap claw power although considering how the game mechanic works it would be ridiculous. The 9 Ap given as a casual power range can already yield FAR more spectacular results than the real T-Rex. Giving a 10 would only add to the farcical nature of the thing. 


    Quote:

    Then throw in the fact that related species of similar size routinely preyed upon 100 ton sauropods that they would have likely dragged and moved as necessary.

First, only the biggest of all Argentinasaurus  could possibly have weighted that much . And it's a big maybe.

Second, the animal kingdom is full of predators preying upon animals FAR bigger than themselves. It doesn't mean they have to be a match in strength or anything close to it. It means they have to be opportunistic  (possibly implying scavenging) and capable of striking a killing blow (neck bites or the likes). As for T-Rex dragging such monsters that is laughable. Maybe a chunk of it but all of it? No.  

Third, where did you get the information about the T-rex "routinely" preying upon 100 tons sauropods? All I see in every diet sections on the subject speak of triceratops or much more modest preys.


    Quote:
    But as I've said before, over 9 or 10 APS - or over Class 10 or IN(40) throw the actual weight scale out the window.

See above. Also, that's in large part because you consider the APs system and the CLASS system as interchangeable while they are not. The mechanic is not the same at all.




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