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Author
Bk Ray


Member Since: Mon Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 5,841



Try not to custom build these, e.g. Captain America without shield as a street, regular versions only.

Best street - Batman?
Best meta - Cyclops?
Best enhanced meta - Thunderstrike?
Best prime meta - Supergirl (Linda)?
Best herald - Sodam Yat?
Best teambuster - Thanos?
Best skyfather - Odin? Do the Vishanti count? A celestial?



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Rehzon


Location: Red Forest, Chernobyl
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,588



Agree with all of these. \:\)






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Knight


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,247




    Quote:

    Try not to custom build these, e.g. Captain America without shield as a street, regular versions only.


Best Street - Batman
Best Meta - Black Canary
Best Enhanced Meta - The Midnighter
Best Prime Meta - Wonder Woman
Best Herald - Superman
Best Teambuster - Thanos
Best Skyfather - Either Odin or a fully fed Galactus







It's interesting that a hero/villain performs one amazing feat, or use a power they haven't used for 20+ years, and that automatically propels them to a high status despite scans and evidence to the contrary. I don't know what is worse, selective feat picking that has only been done once or twice 20, or more, years ago or ignoring evidence from scans or the lack thereof. We need to stop putting our favorite heroes/villains on pedestals and start putting them where they really belong.
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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,900



    Quote:

    Try not to custom build these, e.g. Captain America without shield as a street, regular versions only.



    Quote:
    Best street - Batman?
    Best meta - Cyclops?
    Best enhanced meta - Thunderstrike?
    Best prime meta - Supergirl (Linda)?
    Best herald - Sodam Yat?
    Best teambuster - Thanos?
    Best skyfather - Odin? Do the Vishanti count? A celestial?


Best street - Batman
Best meta - Cyclops
Best enhanced meta - She-Hulk
Best prime meta - Dr. Doom
Best herald - Silver Surfer, Superman, Thor (basically whomever you see as the top among these three)
Best teambuster - Superboy Prime
Best skyfather - Odin (anyone more powerful would belong in the next class which comprises universal level cosmics and the class above that would be full-on abstract entities and multiversal powers)




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Ragnarok


Member Since: Thu Oct 09, 2008
Posts: 5,396



    Quote:

    Best enhanced meta - Thunderstrike?



A soggy wash cloth...hell even a dry and moldy one... would be a better choice.






[URL=http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/wulabo/media/Doom_zps60271c02.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r693/wulabo/Doom_zps60271c02.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 187


So I'll take it to mean 'best all arounder'. There might be a few streets that are stronger than Batman, for instance, so they might be more powerful...or some that are better in straight up fighting (the top end fighter in each respective universe maybe), but its hard to argue that any street blends straight out combat ability with his detective work, tactical ability, gadgets, etc. to be overall more effective in a wide variety of situations....in other words, there might be a few guys who are better in certain situations, but they won't be as good in most other situations.

Best street - Batman
Its hard to argue against Batman, but I'm going to try to get some different picks...
Some arguments could be made for guys like Green Arrow, with better offensive firepower and versatility with his arrows, but in general, its as I said above...Bats is better all around, with the only possible exception for the first few issues after GA underwent NATAS training, which was later forgotten about, and then New 52 happened...
Someone like Conan could also be a contender.

I'm going to go with Daredevil. His radar sense most don't think bumps him into the meta category, and he's really, really impressive. I think he's a close match for Batman, but frankly, its hard to pick a better Street level than the bat.

Or Mr. Terrific...he's pretty awesome also...Mr. Terrific or Daredevil



Meta: I guess this depends on where you think meta stops. Cyclops is good, but I always considered him a 'typical' meta pick...a good pick, but not likely the top end of the level. Is Dazzler meta...if so, IMO she's a better pick despite his better combat capability, because her top end was so absurd, but maybe that makes her more than meta.

Spidey is an EM, but there was a time when he was considered a meta, but eventually the consensus was that his different powers combined to make him 'more' than just a meta. How strong can you be as a brick and still be 'meta'? USAgent is certainly meta at 10, but is he top end? probably not. So, its tough, because I find meta to be the toughest level to define...

So, I'll go with Dove, Dawn Granger, immediately after
absorbing the essence of a lord of order. She may have been
EM though, tough to say, but her physical stats weren't
that impressive...about class 1 with flight, but then an
ability like Karnak to sense weaknesses, and an ability like
Midnighter's fight implants (really it was the same ability
that saw the 'order' in any game plan, structure, etc)

EM: I'd say Carol Danvers during the Warbird era, when it wasn't yet
established that she could get back to binary type levels through
absorption. She was versatile, probably at levels above meta
on individual powers, but not enough to justify her as a PM, but
a good class 50 flying brick with EP at about the same level.
Since then, I think she's more powerful, and is now PM, but
for several years, she was the perfect EM IMO.

PM: I still think PM's are VERY powerful, and I think a good argument
can be made for Dr. Strange to be one...IMO like a herald leveller
without strength or durability...he, Graviton, Magneto are all
great picks. Also high end Green Lanterns (in 2005 I'd have still
called them herald level, but not after the last 10+ years...
I think they started moving downhill after the Nail, which was
out of continuity, but showed even Hal not able to deal with
a kryptonian Jimmy Olsen, even with help...after Superman had been
previously downed by John Stewart and Big Barda (each individually)

I'm going to go with Doom though...classically I'd have put him
as a high EM, but now he tends to use both magic and tech
which makes him versatile enough to take on anyone.

So...Doom or Dr. Strange (if allowed)...even if allowed Strange
I might pick Doom.

Herald: I'm going to surprise everyone and take Orion...as long as I
can take him from the Simonson run. He showed then that he
could take on Darkseid 1 on 1, and he showed fighting skills
while asleep and while blind that are among the best showings I've
seen in comics, and with Astro Force as well, he's versatile
enough that he can handle most anything.

Sodam Yat is tough for me, because I think he was probably a
teambuster. Yes, the ring only gave him equivalent power
at best to someone like Surfer from an EP perspective...but
stacking kryptonian durability with the ring, and still having
that kind of versatility and power output probably puts him over
IMO

Teambuster: Another instance where its hard to go against Thanos...
there might be others that might be more powerful (or not), but
to combine his level of power with his brain...
Hmm...is the Stranger a teambuster or skyfather?





Best meta - Cyclops?
Best enhanced meta - Thunderstrike?
Best prime meta - Supergirl (Linda)?
Best herald - Sodam Yat?
Best teambuster - Thanos?
Best skyfather - Odin? Do the Vishanti count? A celestial?



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makkari1


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,256



    Quote:

    Try not to custom build these, e.g. Captain America without shield as a street, regular versions only.


1.) Best street
DC Batman- He has the best mind and resources at this level.
Marvel- Captain America. With just a shield he is pretty awesome.

2.) Best Meta------------------------------Define Meta 
3.) Best Enhanced Meta------------------Define Enhance Meta 
4.) Best Prime Meta-----------------------Define Prime Meta

5.) Best Herald---------
        DC        Sodam Yat
        Marvel  Silver Silver

6.) Best Team-Buster - 
      DC- Superboy Prime
      Marvel - Korvac

7.) Best Skyfather
      DC- High Father
      Marvel - Odin

Do the Vishanti count? No they are a group. 
A celestial? No a new category called semi-abstract




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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 187


From a power perspective, he's an excellent EM choice...especially if you put a more effective fighter in that powerset....


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,666


I am assuming that each person would just use natural skills/powers here...

Where would you rate out peter parker, as he always seem to fight out of his levels effectively, and where would Thor/SS rate as heralds here, as both have a more varied power set than even rstible than my man Supes!


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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 187


Parker without tech is a in the top half of the EM level.... I'd say in the 60th percentile. He isn't really that much of a raw power guy, but his powers synergize very well...Spidey Sense, speed, agility, and wall crawling combine to make most attacks as ineffective as if he had Juggernaut durability...


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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 187


Superman is a solid herald in power and equal to DCCM, but he's high herald in effectiveness. I pick Orion over him because I think the Astro force and mother/father box gives him a slight versatility and overall power​ advantage, and his top fighting showings are off the charts. Head to Head they are very close, but I think there are a few more circumstances where Orion is a better pick than the other way around.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,666


@ big Superman advantages though as real flight and flash like speed!


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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 187


Orion has a measure of Super speed as well, though not as much as Superman, but that isn't the decisive factor IMO.

Anyway, here's a cool scan of one of my favorite Orion showings...while blind, he throws a bullet into the barrel of a gun....


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,666


Orion is very tough, but still see Him below Supes/Thor/SS!


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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 187


and did pretty well against Maggeddon IIRC, buying time for Superman to absorb the energy source....I think some people overrate mother boxes, but some under rate them as well, and the Astro Force hasn't been featured that often, but when it has, its a VERY impressive power....

I'd rate Orion as Superman's equal physically, slightly slower in combat speed, but not significantly. With the Harness or whatever has comparable or even potentially better flight speed.

Mother Box can open boom tubes, so there's teleportation, protect against all sorts of psychic and other threats, etc. Astro force is greater than Heat Vision IMO, and significantly more versatile. Orion has a weakness to Radion, Superman to Kryptonite, so similar there, but Orion may be more resistant to magic than Superman.

All in all, I think that makes Orion > Superman powerwise, but not overwhelmingly so, and the nature of the way he fights makes him go strength on strength with Superman, meaning their fights tend to be pretty even.

In terms of effectiveness, Orion has fewer appearances to lean on, so the Simonson run is a huge percentage of his overall showings, and he was VERY effective in that series, with fighting skill that was absurd at times.

Since you see Orion as below Supes, do you see him as a peer to Wonder Woman? If so, how do you reconcile the King Superman story, when only Orion could stand up to him at all, among others.....he was clearly out of Wonder Woman's league during their shared stint in the JLA


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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 254



    Quote:
    and did pretty well against Maggeddon IIRC, buying time for Superman to absorb the energy source....I think some people overrate mother boxes, but some under rate them as well, and the Astro Force hasn't been featured that often, but when it has, its a VERY impressive power....


Mageddon broke him and he was helpless against Mageddon again when Superman drained the power source solely. He didn't buy time for Superman.


    Quote:
    I'd rate Orion as Superman's equal physically, slightly slower in combat speed, but not significantly. With the Harness or whatever has comparable or even potentially better flight speed.


He has never been equal to Superman physically and nowhere near Superman in combat speed or flight speed.


    Quote:
    Mother Box can open boom tubes, so there's teleportation, protect against all sorts of psychic and other threats, etc. Astro force is greater than Heat Vision IMO, and significantly more versatile. Orion has a weakness to Radion, Superman to Kryptonite, so similar there, but Orion may be more resistant to magic than Superman.


Astro force has been stalemated by HV and HV outperformed it against both General who tanked it but HV sliced his arm clean off and Doomsday who was in pain from HV but completely no sold astro force.


    Quote:
    All in all, I think that makes Orion > Superman powerwise, but not overwhelmingly so, and the nature of the way he fights makes him go strength on strength with Superman, meaning their fights tend to be pretty even.


Orion has been decisively shown below Superman in power several times.


    Quote:
    In terms of effectiveness, Orion has fewer appearances to lean on, so the Simonson run is a huge percentage of his overall showings, and he was VERY effective in that series, with fighting skill that was absurd at times.



    Quote:
    Since you see Orion as below Supes, do you see him as a peer to Wonder Woman? If so, how do you reconcile the King Superman story, when only Orion could stand up to him at all, among others.....he was clearly out of Wonder Woman's league during their shared stint in the JLA


That was a huge showing for Orion but it was stated that he and JLA combined had no chance of stopping Superman even at normal level and needed to use kryptonite to kill him.


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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 187


Pretty evenly matched


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motifian


Member Since: Sat Jun 10, 2017
Posts: 254



    Quote:
    Pretty evenly matched


In one instance Orion is literally bloodlusted and still can only match Superman who is standard holding back. In the same series Superman overpowered Infinity Man who was further amped and had oneshot killed Orion.

The other instance is from a younger, inexperienced Superman who got cocky against Orion.


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,666


When both are going all out, Superman would take out Orion...


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JesusFan


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,666


I do see him as being physically superior to WW, and around normal Supes, but do see him as beingmuch slower than Superman, and would be the definite underdog both going all out.

Orion to me like DC Hercules, really strong and skilled, but not enought o take dowen Supes either one!



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