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motifian


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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    Quote:
    Darkseid treats her like nothing at less than full power.


You ignore the entire context though. Wonder Woman had been fighting Jason and Grail at the same time first. Darkseid then completely blindsides Wonder Woman with Omega beams, which leaves Diana clearly hurt with smoke coming out of her back and it takes her a full page to recover. So it's not like he's facing a 100% Wonder Woman or anything close to it. Darkseid says that the Justice League matched him last time so that implies this writer's measure of Darkseid is the combined might of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, GL, Flash, and Cyborg.




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motifian


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,077



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Darkseid treats her like nothing at less than full power.



    Quote:
    You ignore the entire context though. Wonder Woman had been fighting Jason and Grail at the same time first. Darkseid then completely blindsides Wonder Woman with Omega beams, which leaves Diana clearly hurt with smoke coming out of her back and it takes her a full page to recover. So it's not like he's facing a 100% Wonder Woman or anything close to it. Darkseid says that the Justice League matched him last time so that implies this writer's measure of Darkseid is the combined might of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, GL, Flash, and Cyborg.


She was playing possum to lure Grail and Jason. She broke free and was beating both of them down.

Also Darkseid was only playing with her as he needed her alive.

You can't even read scans properly. Darkseid says the combined might of Justice League was needed to fight him, not match him. He was beating the entire league and their only chance was to BFR him.

https://s17.postimg.org/ajho9xxov/RCO015.jpg

Here he swats Diana away like nothing at less than full power. I would like to see your excuses if teen Darkseid defeats Zeus.


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Braugi


Member Since: Fri Jul 14, 2017
Posts: 831


and personally, I think Thanos needed to be reigned in a bit, and Darkseid needed a bit of a boost...I think both trends may well go too far IMO, but...

I'd like them to fill that role where they're each more powerful individually than the most powerful hero...Darkseid should be the clear favorite against Superman 1 on 1, and Thanos against Surfer, Thor, etc. individually.

Any character that powerful can legitimately be a threat head to head with a team including that character, but I don't necessarily want them untouchable by a solo showing from Thor, Surfer, Superman, and the like...Superman should be able to pull an upset, but it should be clear he's the underdog IMO.




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Primetime


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Why do believe that it is heading that way? Just curious. The last battle we saw from Thanos is him stalemating someone yielding the full Phoenix Force.


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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,254



    Quote:

      Quote:
      You ignore the entire context though. Wonder Woman had been fighting Jason and Grail at the same time first. Darkseid then completely blindsides Wonder Woman with Omega beams, which leaves Diana clearly hurt with smoke coming out of her back and it takes her a full page to recover. So it's not like he's facing a 100% Wonder Woman or anything close to it. Darkseid says that the Justice League matched him last time so that implies this writer's measure of Darkseid is the combined might of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, GL, Flash, and Cyborg.
    She was playing possum to lure Grail and Jason. She broke free and was beating both of them down.


But nevertheless was exerting herself in a tough battle before Darkseid completely blindsided her.


    Quote:
    You can't even read scans properly. Darkseid says the combined might of Justice League was needed to fight him, not match him. He was beating the entire league and their only chance was to BFR him.


He was not beating them. Wonder Woman blinded Darkseid in one eye and then Aquaman blinded him in another. That's when Superman finally joined the fight and then Cyborg BFR'd Darkseid. And yes, Darkseid's statement that "It took the combined might of your Justice League to fight me last time," means that the Justice League matched him or else he would have said, "Not even the combined might of your Justice League could beat me last time."


    Quote:
    Here he swats Diana away like nothing at less than full power. I would like to see your excuses if teen Darkseid defeats Zeus.


And your excuses if Zeus defeats Darkseid because given DC Zeus' portrayals in the past, he isn't remotely as powerful as Marvel skyfathers.





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motifian


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,077



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        You ignore the entire context though. Wonder Woman had been fighting Jason and Grail at the same time first. Darkseid then completely blindsides Wonder Woman with Omega beams, which leaves Diana clearly hurt with smoke coming out of her back and it takes her a full page to recover. So it's not like he's facing a 100% Wonder Woman or anything close to it. Darkseid says that the Justice League matched him last time so that implies this writer's measure of Darkseid is the combined might of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, GL, Flash, and Cyborg.
      She was playing possum to lure Grail and Jason. She broke free and was beating both of them down.



    Quote:
    But nevertheless was exerting herself in a tough battle before Darkseid completely blindsided her.


She was exerting herself in a fight where she doesn't even gets hit?

And Darkseid wasn't trying to kill her. It was blindsided but that was inconsequential in the fight.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      You can't even read scans properly. Darkseid says the combined might of Justice League was needed to fight him, not match him. He was beating the entire league and their only chance was to BFR him.



    Quote:
    He was not beating them. Wonder Woman blinded Darkseid in one eye and then Aquaman blinded him in another. That's when Superman finally joined the fight and then Cyborg BFR'd Darkseid. And yes, Darkseid's statement that "It took the combined might of your Justice League to fight me last time," means that the Justice League matched him or else he would have said, "Not even the combined might of your Justice League could beat me last time."


Yes, he was. Batman even says that cyborg BFRing Darkseid was their only shot.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5XhrMxQPsg0/UwncOVNxhRI/AAAAAAAAnYg/dbU-iVSIJb8/s1600/p6_13.jpg

At the end he was beating everyone of them.

And no "fight" does not suddenly means matching someone when the league lost to Darkseid repeatedly and only managed to push him away.




    Quote:

      Quote:
      Here he swats Diana away like nothing at less than full power. I would like to see your excuses if teen Darkseid defeats Zeus.



    Quote:
    And your excuses if Zeus defeats Darkseid because given DC Zeus' portrayals in the past, he isn't remotely as powerful as Marvel skyfathers.


What depictions of Zeus suggests he is less powerful than marvel skyfathers?


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    Quote:
    She was exerting herself in a fight where she doesn't even gets hit?


She is struck twice while in bondage.


    Quote:
    And Darkseid wasn't trying to kill her. It was blindsided but that was inconsequential in the fight.


Why is it inconsequential? She is smoking and slowly getting up all the way to the point right before she charges. How is that different from Surfer and Thanos as discussed below? In the example of Surfer, the blast doesn't seem to have taken anything out of him and he is still casually almost beat to death.

It is also pretty contrived that the second blast from Darkseid is not even attempted to be deflected by the bracelets even though she has done so against a fully adult Darkseid in the past as well as almost every energy attack against her.


    Quote:
    And no "fight" does not suddenly means matching someone when the league lost to Darkseid repeatedly and only managed to push him away.


The context overwhelmingly implies that as a team, they are able to challenge him effectively and they do actually prevail.


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motifian


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,077



    Quote:

      Quote:
      She was exerting herself in a fight where she doesn't even gets hit?



    Quote:
    She is struck twice while in bondage.


She was just faking injury and broke out of the chains easily. If she was injured it was never stated or shown.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      And Darkseid wasn't trying to kill her. It was blindsided but that was inconsequential in the fight.



    Quote:
    Why is it inconsequential? She is smoking and slowly getting up all the way to the point right before she charges. How is that different from Surfer and Thanos as discussed below? In the example of Surfer, the blast doesn't seem to have taken anything out of him and he is still casually almost beat to death.


Because in that instance Thanos was actually trying to kill Surfer. Here Darkseid isn't.




    Quote:
    It is also pretty contrived that the second blast from Darkseid is not even attempted to be deflected by the bracelets even though she has done so against a fully adult Darkseid in the past as well as almost every energy attack against her.


So?


    Quote:

      Quote:
      And no "fight" does not suddenly means matching someone when the league lost to Darkseid repeatedly and only managed to push him away.



    Quote:
    The context overwhelmingly implies that as a team, they are able to challenge him effectively and they do actually prevail.


No, Batman straight up said that Cyborg was their only shot. He actually oneshots the whole league by one energy blast and then koes Superman, beats Hal easily and dismissed Wonder Woman.

At no point the league was able to even look competitive.




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zvelf


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 12,254



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        She was exerting herself in a fight where she doesn't even gets hit?
      She is struck twice while in bondage.
    She was just faking injury and broke out of the chains easily. If she was injured it was never stated or shown.


So you're saying Grail and Jason are so weak they can't hurt a Wonder Woman who is their captive?


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        And Darkseid wasn't trying to kill her. It was blindsided but that was inconsequential in the fight.
      Why is it inconsequential? She is smoking and slowly getting up all the way to the point right before she charges. How is that different from Surfer and Thanos as discussed below? In the example of Surfer, the blast doesn't seem to have taken anything out of him and he is still casually almost beat to death.
    Because in that instance Thanos was actually trying to kill Surfer. Here Darkseid isn't.


So the only time an attack can really hurt someone is when it's meant to kill? Nonsense.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      It is also pretty contrived that the second blast from Darkseid is not even attempted to be deflected by the bracelets even though she has done so against a fully adult Darkseid in the past as well as almost every energy attack against her.
    So?


So Darkseid was fighting a vastly weakened Wonder Woman courtesy of his blindside and her immediately battling Grail and Jason beforehand.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        And no "fight" does not suddenly means matching someone when the league lost to Darkseid repeatedly and only managed to push him away.
      The context overwhelmingly implies that as a team, they are able to challenge him effectively and they do actually prevail.
    No, Batman straight up said that Cyborg was their only shot. He actually oneshots the whole league by one energy blast and then koes Superman, beats Hal easily and dismissed Wonder Woman.


You're conflating two different fights. Darkseid ko's the team the very first time they meet when the JL doesn't know who Darkseid is or what he's capable of. Basically, they are caught off guard. Once they are prepared in the final fight, they fight him equally and most of this fight is with Superman absent. Darkseid doesn't ko a single JL member in this final fight. Also, the context of Darkseid's statement is that it took the entire Justice League to fight (match) him last time, so Wonder Woman by herself doesn't stand a chance. The statement is plainly the author's intent to measure up Darkseid (he's = to the JL) in comparison to Wonder Woman.


    Quote:
    At no point the league was able to even look competitive.


Yeah, Wonder Woman plunging her sword into Darkseid's face and blinding him while laughing doesn't look competitive at all.










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Bk Ray

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Posts: 8,500



Superman has beaten both Thor and Hulk, he is clearly above.

Wonder Woman was shown as superior to Hercules and Wonder Man. Thor who has the same physical abilities as both (but is probably not as fast as Simon) has EP to allow him to compete.

The rest of the league has 2 herald level characters, 2 enhanced metas and the best street in comics.

Compare that to the Avengers, where a really powerful line up would be, say Thor, Iron Man and a herald level character like Sersi or Quasar.

The JLA vs Darkseid is a more competitive fight.

Yes, Superman has beaten Darkseid, but he's also shown consistency as beating down top end Marvel guys as well.





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Primetime


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So do you accept that Venom is above Superman, Storm is above Wonder Woman, Wolverine is above Lobo, Thor is above Captain Marvel (Batson), Spider-Man is above Superboy, Silver Surfer is above Kyle, etc. etc.?

Superman and Thor fight as equals with Superman barely winning. Even Busiek confirmed this both in dialogue and in comments. Superman fought a rage handicapped Hulk. Hulk and Superman stalemate in Stern's book (isn't everything canon now in DC?).


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    Quote:
    She was just faking injury and broke out of the chains easily. If she was injured it was never stated or shown.


She was struck twice. That has nothing to do with her pretending not to be able to break out. She is legitimately defeated by them in order to be put in chains, something she admits. So even before being struck twice, she is beaten in battle.


    Quote:
    Because in that instance Thanos was actually trying to kill Surfer. Here Darkseid isn't.


If Thanos purposely leaves a spark of life in Surfer, that means that he is not trying to kill him. He purposely held back enough to keep him alive.


    Quote:
    So?


Folks repeatedly talk about how Superman would do if he used his speed. Well, if Diana used her skill to deflect beams, she would not have been hurt by that final blast. Or are we going to stop with the "if Superman uses his speed".



    Quote:
    No, Batman straight up said that Cyborg was their only shot. He actually oneshots the whole league by one energy blast and then koes Superman, beats Hal easily and dismissed Wonder Woman.



    Quote:
    At no point the league was able to even look competitive.


Cyborg is part of the team is he not? They prevail against him.




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motifian


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,077



    Quote:

      Quote:
      She was just faking injury and broke out of the chains easily. If she was injured it was never stated or shown.



    Quote:
    She was struck twice. That has nothing to do with her pretending not to be able to break out. She is legitimately defeated by them in order to be put in chains, something she admits. So even before being struck twice, she is beaten in battle.


This is not a video game with health points reduction system.

That was before, she was playing possum in this issue and isn't said to be weakened anywhere.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Because in that instance Thanos was actually trying to kill Surfer. Here Darkseid isn't.



    Quote:
    If Thanos purposely leaves a spark of life in Surfer, that means that he is not trying to kill him. He purposely held back enough to keep him alive.


No, he did that later. At that point he was trying to kill him.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      So?



    Quote:
    Folks repeatedly talk about how Superman would do if he used his speed. Well, if Diana used her skill to deflect beams, she would not have been hurt by that final blast. Or are we going to stop with the "if Superman uses his speed".


Wonder Woman is hardly unhittable just like every other character who has a shield.

It's just comics.


    Quote:


      Quote:
      No, Batman straight up said that Cyborg was their only shot. He actually oneshots the whole league by one energy blast and then koes Superman, beats Hal easily and dismissed Wonder Woman.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        At no point the league was able to even look competitive.



    Quote:
    Cyborg is part of the team is he not? They prevail against him.


By using mother boxes of Darkseid himself. And all they did was push him and seal the door.

Thanos lost to Ultimates far worse.


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motifian


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,077



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          She was exerting herself in a fight where she doesn't even gets hit?
        She is struck twice while in bondage.
      She was just faking injury and broke out of the chains easily. If she was injured it was never stated or shown.



    Quote:
    So you're saying Grail and Jason are so weak they can't hurt a Wonder Woman who is their captive?


Hurt? Yes. Weaken her. No.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          And Darkseid wasn't trying to kill her. It was blindsided but that was inconsequential in the fight.
        Why is it inconsequential? She is smoking and slowly getting up all the way to the point right before she charges. How is that different from Surfer and Thanos as discussed below? In the example of Surfer, the blast doesn't seem to have taken anything out of him and he is still casually almost beat to death.
      Because in that instance Thanos was actually trying to kill Surfer. Here Darkseid isn't.



    Quote:
    So the only time an attack can really hurt someone is when it's meant to kill? Nonsense.


You need show us where that weakened her. She is weaker when Darkseid drains her only.


    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:
        It is also pretty contrived that the second blast from Darkseid is not even attempted to be deflected by the bracelets even though she has done so against a fully adult Darkseid in the past as well as almost every energy attack against her.
      So?



    Quote:
    So Darkseid was fighting a vastly weakened Wonder Woman courtesy of his blindside and her immediately battling Grail and Jason beforehand.


Where is that suggested that Wonder Woman was weakened much less vastly weakened?



    Quote:

      Quote:

        Quote:

          Quote:
          And no "fight" does not suddenly means matching someone when the league lost to Darkseid repeatedly and only managed to push him away.
        The context overwhelmingly implies that as a team, they are able to challenge him effectively and they do actually prevail.
      No, Batman straight up said that Cyborg was their only shot. He actually oneshots the whole league by one energy blast and then koes Superman, beats Hal easily and dismissed Wonder Woman.



    Quote:
    You're conflating two different fights. Darkseid ko's the team the very first time they meet when the JL doesn't know who Darkseid is or what he's capable of. Basically, they are caught off guard. Once they are prepared in the final fight, they fight him equally and most of this fight is with Superman absent. Darkseid doesn't ko a single JL member in this final fight. Also, the context of Darkseid's statement is that it took the entire Justice League to fight (match) him last time, so Wonder Woman by herself doesn't stand a chance. The statement is plainly the author's intent to measure up Darkseid (he's = to the JL) in comparison to Wonder Woman.


Darkseid didn't ko Superman and defeated Hal while breaking his hand?

Batman said to Cyborg in the last fight that he was their only shot.

No, it only means that the League was needed to fight Darkseid. As was written.

Your bias is once again showing.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      At no point the league was able to even look competitive.



    Quote:
    Yeah, Wonder Woman plunging her sword into Darkseid's face and blinding him while laughing doesn't look competitive at all.



    Quote:




    Quote:



And they basically said it did nothing to Darkseid at all on the very same page.



Way to crop the scan though. They even ask what they can do and they conclude that the only thing is to send him to Apokolips.
Around the same time Thor dropped Odin to his knees with one mjolnir shot.
That was Fraction Odin who was probably the most powerful he had been since Lee-Kirby era.



Darkseid wasn't even bothered by a sword and a trident to his eyes.

I'm still waiting for why DC Zeus is "far less powerful" than the Marvel skyfathers BTW.


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motifian


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,077



    Quote:
    So do you accept that Venom is above Superman, Storm is above Wonder Woman, Wolverine is above Lobo, Thor is above Captain Marvel (Batson), Spider-Man is above Superboy, Silver Surfer is above Kyle, etc. etc.?


Several of those are fan decided and circumstancial wins.


    Quote:
    Superman and Thor fight as equals with Superman barely winning. Even Busiek confirmed this both in dialogue and in comments. Superman fought a rage handicapped Hulk. Hulk and Superman stalemate in Stern's book (isn't everything canon now in DC?).


Equals don't catch your punch and knock you out. Busiek straight up said that JLA counterparts were more powerful than the Avengers in absolute edition.

Superman beating Hulk was fan decided but Marz never showed that Hulk was rage handicapped.




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Primetime


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Posts: 779


[
    Quote:
    This is not a video game with health points reduction system.


It’s a comic showing a character worst for wear due to punishment.


    Quote:
    That was before, she was playing possum in this issue and isn't said to be weakened anywhere.


Who said she was weakened? She was beat up.


    Quote:
    No, he did that later. At that point he was trying to kill him.


Did what later? He didn’t kill him and bring him back to life. He held back enough to not kill him.


    Quote:
    Wonder Woman is hardly unhittable just like every other character who has a shield.


With bullets and lazers she is nearly unhittable. Same for Cap. We are not talking about punches.


    Quote:
    It's just comics.



    Quote:
    By using mother boxes of Darkseid himself. And all they did was push him and seal the door.


Cyborg uses his power to take control of the boxes.


    Quote:
    Thanos lost to Ultimates far worse.


On the contrary. Thanos suffers no physical damage in his loss. Darkseid is damaged to a point of requiring a prolonged nap to physically heal.




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We are not talking about the rest of the Avengers. We are talking about Thor. Superman had to reach deep down while on the brink of destruction to pull out a miracle and Busuek has stated that the fight could have easily gone either way and in the dialogue stated that Superman “barely” won. He was left truly weakened to the point of being helpless against the Avengers.

And most of those fights were not fan voted.


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Bk Ray

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and he still got up before Thor





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Bk Ray

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Venon vs Superman is not a 'who will win between these iconic characters' fight. It dictated the plot.

Wonder Woman had undergone substantial psychological and biological changes seconds before the fight.

Thor couldn't beat Billy in a straight up melee, as it was, it cost him the use of Mjonilor

Surfer SHOULD beat Kyle.

Spiderman himself said he couldn't beat Superboy, he lucked out where Superboy ko'd himself.

Wolverine and Lobo fought off panel.





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motifian


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,077



    Quote:
    We are not talking about the rest of the Avengers. We are talking about Thor. Superman had to reach deep down while on the brink of destruction to pull out a miracle and Busuek has stated that the fight could have easily gone either way and in the dialogue stated that Superman “barely” won. He was left truly weakened to the point of being helpless against the Avengers.


That's never even alluded that Superman had to reach down. In fact Busiek writes Superman as never reaching that level of power in his run.

The avengers cheapshotted him. Lesser than that team took down Thor under Busiek.


    Quote:
    And most of those fights were not fan voted.


Yes, they were dictated by fan votes so each company gets equivalent wins. Hence why Aquaman won over Namor.



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motifian


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,077



    Quote:
    [
      Quote:
      This is not a video game with health points reduction system.



    Quote:
    It’s a comic showing a character worst for wear due to punishment.


Nowhere stated or even implied.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      That was before, she was playing possum in this issue and isn't said to be weakened anywhere.



    Quote:
    Who said she was weakened? She was beat up.


While she was beating both Grail and Jason? Seems fine to me.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      No, he did that later. At that point he was trying to kill him.



    Quote:
    Did what later? He didn’t kill him and bring him back to life. He held back enough to not kill him.


He beat him near death. That was his intention. Darkseid wasn't trying to kill her here.

And Thanos wasn't stated to be holding back either.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Wonder Woman is hardly unhittable just like every other character who has a shield.



    Quote:
    With bullets and lazers she is nearly unhittable. Same for Cap. We are not talking about punches.


Not even close. She has been hit lots of times.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      It's just comics.

      Quote:

        Quote:
        By using mother boxes of Darkseid himself. And all they did was push him and seal the door.



    Quote:
    Cyborg uses his power to take control of the boxes.


So? Does Black Panther beats Thanos in Ultimates?


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Thanos lost to Ultimates far worse.



    Quote:
    On the contrary. Thanos suffers no physical damage in his loss. Darkseid is damaged to a point of requiring a prolonged nap to physically heal.


That was due to mother box shutting boom tube on him. That event fractured entire space time continuum.

Not due to League.


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Being helpless against them does not mean it took all of them. The whole scene was one of punishing him for beating Thor by adding insult to injury. Supes seemed done right after Tony’s blast. Fans criticized Busiek for what they viewed as writing the Avengers out of character and he cited them piling onto Nefaria.

Speaking of that, they do pile on Nefaria similarly and he tosses all of them off like they are nothing and this is under Busuek. So your argument that Superman is not weakened by Thor is an acknowledgement that Nefaria is far stronger than Superman. Busiek even shared the script of that scene and the script describes Superman as significantly weakened by his fight with Thor.

And I would be interested as to where Superman is shown up before Thor.


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    Quote:
    Nowhere stated or even implied.


Appears pretty implied.


    Quote:
    While she was beating both Grail and Jason? Seems fine to me.


They defeated her.


    Quote:
    He beat him near death. That was his intention. Darkseid wasn't trying to kill her here.


“Near death” is not “death”. Have you ever attended a funeral for someone who almost died?


    Quote:
    And Thanos wasn't stated to be holding back either.


He stared that he intentially left Surfer alive. That means that he held back enough to not kill him.


    Quote:
    Not even close. She has been hit lots of times.


By punches.


    Quote:
    So? Does Black Panther beats Thanos in Ultimates?


He and Adam use prep unrelated to physical powers.


    Quote:
    That was due to mother box shutting boom tube on him. That event fractured entire space time continuum.



    Quote:
    Not due to League.


That was due to Cyborg’s power to manipulate machinery and Cyborg is part of The League.




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Bk Ray

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Posts: 8,500



As you note, Superman is hit by Iron Man's blast - HE IS STILL STANDING.

Hercules, Iron Man, Vision and Wonder Man join the frey and I read that as desperation. If my friend Rob has just been ko'd by some guy in a club and Stuart punches him in the face and he still doesn't go down, until he is joined by myself and 3 other blokes, pretty sure it means it took all of us to knock him out. It is in fact an embarrassment that it took so many of them.

Whilst all this was happening and Thor was recuperating, Superman was taking additional punishment. Even they Superman took no longer than Thor to get up.

So Superman weathered all Thor could give, all that half a dozen Avengers could give. During that time Thor was recovering from Superman's attack.

If you want to use additional comics, then I would say Doomsday vs Superman, where he got killed was a tougher fight than Thor.

I know you don't want to hear it, but Thor is no match for Superman.





Moderator: Spiderman Board, Moderator: Star Trek Board ''He stood alone at Gjallerbru... and that answer is enough.''
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Primetime


Member Since: Tue Dec 29, 2009
Posts: 779


Notice that Superman is hit with IM’s blast, punched by WM and then bopped on top of the head by IM. We then see him going down from the attack of just those two. Three panels that would have taken three seconds at most. The others don’t reach him until he is down. They are saying “you don’t do that to him”. That’s payback, not desperation. They are hitting him while he is on the ground.

When we next see Superman and Thor, Superman is on his hand and knees being helped up. Thor is sitting, talking to Wanda. Superman is clearly in the process of rising from the prone position he was in. Thor is in a settled seat that he probably had been in for a while.

Superman believed that Thor may have been his toughest opponent. So clearly he wasn’t sure if Doomsday was tougher.


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motifian


Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 3,077



    Quote:

      Quote:
      Nowhere stated or even implied.



    Quote:
    Appears pretty implied.


Not even close to it.



    Quote:
    They defeated her.


She was trying to get Jason to listen to her and was playing possum.




    Quote:
    “Near death” is not “death”. Have you ever attended a funeral for someone who almost died?


Beating near death doesn't means you are holding back.




    Quote:
    He stared that he intentially left Surfer alive. That means that he held back enough to not kill him.


No, he stopped just before he killed Surfer.




    Quote:
    By punches.


Energy blasts too.



    Quote:
    He and Adam use prep unrelated to physical powers.


Same with Cyborg.




    Quote:
    That was due to Cyborg’s power to manipulate machinery and Cyborg is part of The League.


No it was due to an outside force that wasnt a part of his power. Cyborg used several mother boxes to send Darkseid to Apokolips.



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